AVR Recomendation 5.1.4 atmos

TeaPot91

Standard Member
Hi All, I appreciate many people may have asked this question but I can’t see any with my exact setup and i don’t know how much it varies per setup. I am looking for recommendations on an AVR for my new home cinema. My setup is as follows:

5.1.4
5 x KEF Ci4100QL
4 x LEF Ci160qr in ceiling

I will be going either Epsom 9400 or possibly some other 4k comparable projector. I am happy for new or used, but if used will get me better for my money I would rather go that direction.

I have seen denon 4500 recommended as well as 3700 which I believe is the current model, although lower than the 4500 potentially as it’s the 3 series range. I also saw something that the new models have issues? Is a 4300 enough, or should I be aiming 4500 or more In the older models. For the new models what do I need? And finally any other makes and models instead of the denon?

I would ideally like to be future proof, so 8k would be nice but if it’s not good comparable and money wise I would rather a 4k. I imagine it will be a huge price tag for 8k projectors when they come out.

my budget is probably £1000 at a push, £800 ideally but less is better.

Thanks
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
Hi All, I appreciate many people may have asked this question but I can’t see any with my exact setup and i don’t know how much it varies per setup. I am looking for recommendations on an AVR for my new home cinema. My setup is as follows:

5.1.4
5 x KEF Ci4100QL
4 x LEF Ci160qr in ceiling

I will be going either Epsom 9400 or possibly some other 4k comparable projector. I am happy for new or used, but if used will get me better for my money I would rather go that direction.

I have seen denon 4500 recommended as well as 3700 which I believe is the current model, although lower than the 4500 potentially as it’s the 3 series range. I also saw something that the new models have issues? Is a 4300 enough, or should I be aiming 4500 or more In the older models. For the new models what do I need? And finally any other makes and models instead of the denon?

I would ideally like to be future proof, so 8k would be nice but if it’s not good comparable and money wise I would rather a 4k. I imagine it will be a huge price tag for 8k projectors when they come out.

my budget is probably £1000 at a push, £800 ideally but less is better.

Thanks
In terms of buying new the cheapest 9 channel ready receiver is the Denon x3700 - RRP £1099

Hi if you want 8K then you need to be looking at either the Denon X3700 (in budget) or X4700 (over budget - RRP £1449)

Here's a recent thread where a forum member was able to do a side by side comparison of the 2:


There are problems with HDMI 2.1 bug on these new receivers (from all manufacturers that have HDMI 2.1)... However unless you are intending to use a games console (PS5, Xbox One X), you won't be affected by this. Even if you do have a current gen console there's a simple workaround for this.

Here's more info on the HDMI 2.1 bug:


Prices for new receivers are stupidly high at the minute. I own a Denon x4500h and it's a fab receiver, if you can find one! I wouldn't go 4300 as you loose some features which I think are important. Here's a comparison of the 4300 & 4500:


Marantz SR6015 - this is essentially the same as a Denon X3700. They are made by the same company. Marantz are considered to be slightly better for 2 channel music, but are more expensive than their Denon equivalent model.

I'm afraid I can't advise on second hand gear (other than the 4500H mentioned). I prefer buying new amps, as I like to have a warranty on such items.
 
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TeaPot91

Standard Member
In terms of buying new the cheapest 9 channel ready receiver is the Denon x3700 - RRP £1099

Hi if you want 8K then you need to be looking at either the Denon X3700 (in budget) or X4700 (over budget - RRP £1449)

Here's a recent thread where a forum member was able to do a side by side comparison of the 2:


There are problems with HDMI 2.1 bug on these new receivers (from all manufacturers that have HDMI 2.1)... However unless you are intending to use a games console (PS5, Xbox One X), you won't be affected by this. Even if you do have a current gen console there's a simple workaround for this.

Here's more info on the HDMI 2.1 bug:


Prices for new receivers are stupidly high at the minute. I own a Denon x4500h and it's a fab receiver, if you can find one! I wouldn't go 4300 as you loose some features which I think are important. Here's a comparison of the 4300 & 4500:


Marantz SR6015 - this is essentially the same as a Denon X3700. They are made by the same company. Marantz are considered to be slightly better for 2 channel music, but are more expensive than their Denon equivalent model.

I'm afraid I can't advise on second hand gear (other than the 4500H mentioned). I prefer buying new amps, as I like to have a warranty on such items.

Thanks Jester, that is really really useful. I've missed out on a couple of amps on ebay, a denon 4700 on ebay at a great price, but got outbid at the last minute.

I think the 4700 is only better over the 3700 for listening to music mostly by that review and I am not a huge music listener, so I think the 3700 should be enough. I will look towards either a 3700 or a 4500, but maybe for future proofing stick with the 3700.

Thank you again for your time to respond.
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
I think the 4700 is only better over the 3700 for listening to music mostly by that review and I am not a huge music listener, so I think the 3700 should be enough. I will look towards either a 3700 or a 4500, but maybe for future proofing stick with the 3700.
There are some other differences. But yeah the 3700 will be fine for movie use. Personally I always try & get the best receiver I can - to avoid buyers remorse. Having said that. If you had £1400 to spend on the AVR - and were using 100% for movies. I'd buy the 3700 (or a good price 4500) and use the money saved towards better quality speakers!
 

gibbsy

Moderator
An X4700 has AL32 processing which is only fitted to the top tier of Denon models. Although better for music it also plays a part in the overall processing of all channels and it's sound steering is very good indeed. The X4700 also has better components and amplification, little more headroom which is always welcome.

How significant that is in reality between the X3700 and X4700 I can't comment as I've not listened to either. I can confirm though that the AL32 current fitted to my present X6500 is noticeably better than the AL24 that was fitted to my previous X6200. There again I bought my X6500 for less money than you'd pay for a X4700 now such is madness of this last year which is no doubt keeping prices higher than you would normally find at this time of year.
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
An X4700 has AL32 processing which is only fitted to the top tier of Denon models. Although better for music it also plays a part in the overall processing of all channels and it's sound steering is very good indeed. The X4700 also has better components and amplification, little more headroom which is always welcome.

How significant that is in reality between the X3700 and X4700 I can't comment as I've not listened to either. I can confirm though that the AL32 current fitted to my present X6500 is noticeably better than the AL24 that was fitted to my previous X6200. There again I bought my X6500 for less money than you'd pay for a X4700 now such is madness of this last year which is no doubt keeping prices higher than you would normally find at this time of year.
@gibbsy (as always) makes some good points here. I guess it boils down to:

What budget the OP has,
If he's happy with his current speakers.

Either way. I don't think he'll be disappointed with either the 3700, 4700 or even a good priced 4500.
 

Marky1973

Well-known Member
As someone who has just bought a 3700 I don't think you'll be disappointed for movie use. I don't use it for music although it isn't awful to be fair, it just won't stack up for purists.

I have it set up with 5.1.4 and it was an absolute breeze to do it with the onboard set up. ATMOS soundtracks are amazing compared to my old amp.
 

TeaPot91

Standard Member
An X4700 has AL32 processing which is only fitted to the top tier of Denon models. Although better for music it also plays a part in the overall processing of all channels and it's sound steering is very good indeed. The X4700 also has better components and amplification, little more headroom which is always welcome.

How significant that is in reality between the X3700 and X4700 I can't comment as I've not listened to either. I can confirm though that the AL32 current fitted to my present X6500 is noticeably better than the AL24 that was fitted to my previous X6200. There again I bought my X6500 for less money than you'd pay for a X4700 now such is madness of this last year which is no doubt keeping prices higher than you would normally find at this time of year.

@gibbsy (as always) makes some good points here. I guess it boils down to:

What budget the OP has,
If he's happy with his current speakers.

Either way. I don't think he'll be disappointed with either the 3700, 4700 or even a good priced 4500.

As someone who has just bought a 3700 I don't think you'll be disappointed for movie use. I don't use it for music although it isn't awful to be fair, it just won't stack up for purists.

I have it set up with 5.1.4 and it was an absolute breeze to do it with the onboard set up. ATMOS soundtracks are amazing compared to my old amp.

Thanks..

So my speakers I have them already, I have bought:

5 x KEF Ci4100QL in wall speakers
4 x KEF Ci160QR in Ceiling speakers

I needed the room to be 'discreet' cinema, hence in wall speakers. I'll be getting an SVS PB2000 Sub. Projector I think will be Epson 9400.

Does that help decide on what amp to get?
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
Thanks..

So my speakers I have them already, I have bought:

5 x KEF Ci4100QL in wall speakers
4 x KEF Ci160QR in Ceiling speakers

I needed the room to be 'discreet' cinema, hence in wall speakers. I'll be getting an SVS PB2000 Sub. Projector I think will be Epson 9400.

Does that help decide on what amp to get?
Any of the amps mentioned so far in the thread will be fine. Just get the best one within your budget. I wouldn't go lower than a Denon 4500 though in terms of spec.

The PB2000 is a great sub. Is it the "Pro" version? I've got 2x SVS SB2000 Pro's. Went with the SB (Sealed Box) as my system is used 50/50 for music & movies.
 
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gibbsy

Moderator
Thanks..

So my speakers I have them already, I have bought:

5 x KEF Ci4100QL in wall speakers
4 x KEF Ci160QR in Ceiling speakers

I needed the room to be 'discreet' cinema, hence in wall speakers. I'll be getting an SVS PB2000 Sub. Projector I think will be Epson 9400.

Does that help decide on what amp to get?
The KEF speakers have a 4 ohm loading and 89dB sensitivity so they are going to be easy for any capable receiver to drive. But, there's always a but, at 4 ohms the amp is going to run hot so good ventilation is absolutely essential if you don't want to induce safety shutdowns when all speakers are involved in exciting action scenes.

So not so much about the choice of amp but more a nod to where it is going to be placed.
 

TeaPot91

Standard Member
Any of the amps mentioned so far in the thread will be fine. Just get the best one within your budget. I wouldn't go lower than a Denon 4500 though in terms of spec.

The PB2000 is a great sub. Is it the "Pro" version? I've got 2x SVS SB2000 Pro's. Went with the SB (Sealed Box) as my system is used 50/50 for music & movies.

Apologies, it is actually the SB2000 pro I am getting not the PB!

The KEF speakers have a 4 ohm loading and 89dB sensitivity so they are going to be easy for any capable receiver to drive. But, there's always a but, at 4 ohms the amp is going to run hot so good ventilation is absolutely essential if you don't want to induce safety shutdowns when all speakers are involved in exciting action scenes.

So not so much about the choice of amp but more a nod to where it is going to be placed.

The amp will be in the office directly behind the cinema in a wall mounted open cage rack... A Sanus CFR1615B

Given the speakers I am using and that all 3 amps will do fine, would I notice a difference between a 3700 and 4700 or are my speakers not good enough for that?

I won’t be getting an 8k projector any time soon, but I don’t want to buy an amp twice by getting 4K now and needing to get an 8K amp later if I ever did upgrade but then it may be that the 3700 is no good by the time I get 8K or would it still be sufficient?

In terms of projector, I will ask as you all seem knowledgeable and helpful. I am looking towards an Epson 9400, but that isn’t native 4K and I don’t know whether I am better with that or a native 4K. My room is going to be white walls and ceiling with a light grey carpet, a window behind the screen. I have however got an ALR screen and will obviously close blinds while watching things. I am budgeting around 2k for a used one given a few have sold recently here for just under that with spare bulbs or very low hours and warranty. Am I making the right choice or should I be looking at other options and can you recommend any?

Thanks again.
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
Apologies, it is actually the SB2000 pro I am getting not the PB!

Great sub. I'm going to be running 2 of them in my setup!

Given the speakers I am using and that all 3 amps will do fine, would I notice a difference between a 3700 and 4700 or are my speakers not good enough for that?

If you're asking yourself this. I'd seriously considering just spending the extra £300 & getting the 4700. There's nothing worse in this game then "wondering what if I got the next model etc" Buy the best AVR you can afford to avoid this.

For reference I experienced this. I bought a Denon x2500h. This was very quickly sold and replaced with the 4500h I own now.

I won’t be getting an 8k projector any time soon, but I don’t want to buy an amp twice by getting 4K now and needing to get an 8K amp later if I ever did upgrade but then it may be that the 3700 is no good by the time I get 8K or would it still be sufficient?

You've kind of answered this yourself. At present there are no 8K Projectors on the market and more importantly no 8K material or broadcasts either. A lot depends on how long you tend to or intend to keep the AVR. 5-10yrs is usually mine.

In terms of projector, I will ask as you all seem knowledgeable and helpful. I am looking towards an Epson 9400, but that isn’t native 4K and I don’t know whether I am better with that or a native 4K. My room is going to be white walls and ceiling with a light grey carpet, a window behind the screen. I have however got an ALR screen and will obviously close blinds while watching things. I am budgeting around 2k for a used one given a few have sold recently here for just under that with spare bulbs or very low hours and warranty. Am I making the right choice or should I be looking at other options and can you recommend any?

I know very little about projectors, but it is a potential upgrade path of my own in future. Maybe start a new thread in the Projector forum? I know the Epson 9400 is a well liked one though.
 

TeaPot91

Standard Member
Great sub. I'm going to be running 2 of them in my setup!



If you're asking yourself this. I'd seriously considering just spending the extra £300 & getting the 4700. There's nothing worse in this game then "wondering what if I got the next model etc" Buy the best AVR you can afford to avoid this.

For reference I experienced this. I bought a Denon x2500h. This was very quickly sold and replaced with the 4500h I own now.



You've kind of answered this yourself. At present there are no 8K Projectors on the market and more importantly no 8K material or broadcasts either. A lot depends on how long you tend to or intend to keep the AVR. 5-10yrs is usually mine.



I know very little about projectors, but it is a potential upgrade path of my own in future. Maybe start a new thread in the Projector forum? I know the Epson 9400 is a well liked one though.

Thank you. I think 4700 it may well be. I’ll keep a lookout for a second hone and get a quote from my supplier too.

And will stick up a post in projector section.

Thanks again for your help.
 

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