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AVR 300 DAC vs. DV 27A DAC

Discussion in 'Arcam Owners' Forum' started by kapikog, Oct 21, 2005.

  1. kapikog

    kapikog
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    Should CDs and Dolby 5.1 DVDs sound much better using digital out from a DV 27A into an AVR 300, instead of using the analogue outs (through the DV 27A DAC) direct through the 300?

    I can't seem to hear any bass presence using the analogue outs on the 27A. Furthermore, the soundstage isn't nearly as wide and even, as well. The best my dealer could say, is that my inter-connects may not be of sufficient quality. I can't believe that any cables can create or remove bass, as seems to be the case here. I'm talking about a difference that my mother could tell :rolleyes:

    Thanks
     
  2. bjoern

    bjoern
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    Hi,

    I had the same wonderings myself, and it has been discussed in some other threads.
    Anyway, it seems like the reason is some restrictions from Dolby laboratories that states that a source (DV27A) shall be restricted when it comes to LFE-output. It is some kind of protection issue... The result (solution?) is a decrease of LFE signal from DV27A (and other DVD-A players) with -6dB in stereo and -18dB in multichannel, or something like that.
    There is separate sub settings in the 27 for stereo+sub and sub, so you can handle of some of the difference. However, the span is not big enough (10dB), so you need to have a processor or sub with the possibility to have different settings for stereo/multichannel/music/film.
    The new Velodyne SMS-1 might just be the solution...
     
  3. cwick

    cwick
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  4. kapikog

    kapikog
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    Thanks for the helpful feedback. Once such an adjustment is made, is the consensus that the 27A DAC outperforms the 300 DAC? This is what my dealer stated. I would be pleasantly surprised, as I have greatly enjoyed CDs and DVDs through the 300's DAC so far.

    Thanks again :)
     
  5. kapikog

    kapikog
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    I had a look at the above thread, which I see that I had participated in (boy, is my thread searching poor :( ). I see that the answer to my last question is rather complicated; appearing to depend on the type of source material, more than anything else.
     
  6. WRG

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    I think I may have asked a similar question on another board and John Dawson chimed in and told me to use DACs in the DV29 to the AVR300. I used six of those multichannel interconnects out of the DV29 to the multichannel in on the AVR...sounds superb to me :smashin:
     
  7. Ettepet

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    As Jeff reported here a while back there seems to be a problem with bass management on the dv27a (dv29?), where re-directed bass is being scaled down by 18dB (max.) and regular LFE content isn't. This means you cannot just increase the sensitivity on the amp/receiver to compensate, because LFE (.1) content would become way too loud. I reported this bug to Andy Dutton who sent it through to see if it can be fixed with a software update.
     
  8. Crustyloafer

    Crustyloafer
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    Make sure that the DVD-A subwoofer setting on the AVR300 is set to +10dB.

    Make sure you have the levels set correctly on the DV27A, including the bass management.
     
  9. NiallAikman

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    Nothing new or technical to add to this thread, but I use the analogue outs from my DV27A for music, and then use the coax digital output when watching movies. Works for me, sounds great on both!

    I have more of an issue regarding lip sync, and whether to correct it on the DV27A or the AVR300 - if I use the analogue outs, it is a direct signal and therefore can't be corrected/delayed on the AVR300. With the digital coax, I can correct on the AVR300. This is the clincher for me, as I find the picture doesn't seem to pan so smoothly when I have a large delay set on the DV27A. Or is it just me?
     
  10. WRG

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    I forgot to mention that I used the 6ch analogue out to the AVR300 for the multichannel music and the digital coax for the dvd's with the DV29...no hint of lip sync at all :)
     
  11. tvh3ad

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    Yes, and this is a tricky business. Somebody at Arcam -- I think it was Andy Dutton -- said that the correct place to set levels is via the AVR300. When you use the multichannel analog outputs from the 27A into the AVR300, you kill the AVR300's DSP but not the analog level settings, so the most correct procedure is...

    On the AVR300:

    1 - Set your speaker levels normally.
    2 - Set the DVD-A sub option to +10db.

    On the 27A:

    1 - Start by setting the sub's config to match the AVR300 as closely as possible -- i.e., if you have speakers set to Small and sub to Crossover on the AVR300, set them the same way on the 27A as well. Also be sure to use the same crossover frequency.
    2 - Set all the 27A levels to 0db, or flat. As noted above, the AVR300's analog trim settings will still apply so you don't need to set them here (yet).
    3 - Set the 27A delays to match the AVR300 as closely as possible. (No option for the sub and no option for different L/R delays...)

    Once you've done all this, you may well find that you still need to tweak the bass levels on the 27A to get it to approximate the AVR300. I used the onboard test tones on the AVR300 to set the initial levels as noted above and then I fine-tuned the 27 with a test DVD. In my case, the bass is way out of line no matter which way you set the DVD-A 10db boost on the AVR300...and the 27A's test tones don't work properly.

    Hope this helps.

    Now for some commentary: this is easily the most confusing and least useful audio device pairing I've ever dealt with; it's really too bad that the 27A wasn't updated to make it play well with the AVR300 since these are both great pieces. (That said, once you get it set up it's pretty great.)

    Off-topic, but I want to add that it's also unfortunate that Arcam went with a single crossover frequency. I have mains and a center with good bass extension (Thiel), but my surrounds (Linn) have considerably less range. If I set the crossover high enough for the surrounds, I cheat the Thiels and I can locate the sub; if I set it low enough for the Thiels, I lose surround information. Bummer.
     

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