AVForums Podcast: Philips OLED 854 & OLED+984 Reviews, Amazon HD Music Service and more - 21/10/19

Phil Hinton

Editor
Staff member
00:00:00 - Sponsor Message
00:00:56 - What have we done this week?
00:18:34 - Current Competitions
00:21:19 - Philips OLED854 & OLED+984 TV Reviews
00:44:09 - Amazon Music HD Service review
00:57:08 - Cinema releases this week
01:00:35 - 4K and Blu-ray disc releases this week
01:07:30 - Streaming releases this week
01:09:04 - Will Hollywood finally run out of sequels?
01:31:17 - Goodbyes

Presented by Phil Hinton with Steve Withers and Ed Selley

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Subscription link: AVForums Podcast

[playmp3]527[/playmp3]
Time: 01:32:03 | File Size: 180mb | Direct Link
 

Mr-Mixalot

Well-known Member
Phil

I too watched Game Changers on Netflix and decided to make similar changes as you

Excellent documentary that really made you think
 
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Jokerr

Well-known Member
I use both TIDAL HIFI and Amazon MUSIC HD. AMAZON MUSIC HD upscales everything so this is not true Hi-Res.

i can hear a clear advantage in sound quality resolution in the same tracks when doing A/B test between TIDAL HIFI and Amazon HD, for tracks upsampled.

In addition there is no Exclusive Mode.

unless Amazon fixes it, many audiophile enthusiasts like me will just stick with TIDAL HIFI or Qobuz.

very disappointing
 

Jokerr

Well-known Member
One more point about Amazon Music HD. Give praise to BlueOS as this software quickly received an update and can actually play the correct resolution of the tracks.

BlueOS updates seems to be miles ahead of other platforms. Shame there is only the NADM10 and Bluesound Node which currently utilise BlueOS.
 

Jokerr

Well-known Member
When Apple first launched AppleTV4k they made a silly decision to force all content to HDR. After allot of complaints they shortly after implemented a fix to play content in correct HDR or SDR formats.

i hope Amazon realises this catastrophic upsampling decision and fixes it before XMas.
 

Phil Hinton

Editor
Staff member
Phil

I too watched Game Changers on Netflix and decided to make similar changes as you

Excellent documentary that really made you think
It was just the latest documentary on the subject that finally made me consider changing my ways, not just for the environment but also for health benefits. I'm giving myself time to make the changes so I stick to it. Good luck!
 

Ed Selley

AVF Reviewer
I use both TIDAL HIFI and Amazon MUSIC HD. AMAZON MUSIC HD upscales everything so this is not true Hi-Res.

i can hear a clear advantage in sound quality resolution in the same tracks when doing A/B test between TIDAL HIFI and Amazon HD, for tracks upsampled.

In addition there is no Exclusive Mode.

unless Amazon fixes it, many audiophile enthusiasts like me will just stick with TIDAL HIFI or Qobuz.

very disappointing
It doesn't upsample- the file is always native. What you're describing is Windows defaulting to 24/96 or similar when not locked to the sample rate- if you go to the properties menu of the DAC, you can correct this. The lack of a direct mode is an irritation though.
 

Essoman

Well-known Member

boabis

Active Member
Interesting to hear that these “new” OLED TVs are likely to be discounted for Black Friday. I suppose it’s a bigger event these days than January sales.

If the hard-ish Brexit goes ahead as planned, this Christmas could see a final meltdown in retail that kills some real big names off.

Get your OLED now before it’s held at Dover for 3 months.
 

Jokerr

Well-known Member
It doesn't upsample- the file is always native. What you're describing is Windows defaulting to 24/96 or similar when not locked to the sample rate- if you go to the properties menu of the DAC, you can correct this. The lack of a direct mode is an irritation though.
No you are wrong. Amazon MUSIC HD is upsampling. This has already been complained about by many.
my Audioquest Cobalt and Chord Mojo show the ACTUAL resolution being received which is always upsampled. This is the sane result from my iPadPro - USB-C, iPhone, Apple MAC.

You should do your homework. There are lots of people that have highlighted this problem.

also I discussed with Audioquest Engineering in Netherlands who also confirmed this problem with Amazon MUSIC HD. Initially I thought it was a problem with my dragonfly cobalt and so when I discussed with Audioquest they explained the reasons why.
 

Phil Hinton

Editor
Staff member
Watched Game Changers too, thought it a bit one sided, interesting critic on it worth a read.

Funnily enough that article reads as very one-sided like the author has some really big chips on his shoulder. (It's almost like the kind of rebuttal you would expect from someone with interests in intensive farming or the meat trade. Not saying the author is, but that is how it can be interpreted.)

As always the truth will be somewhere in the middle.

My biggest take away from all of the articles I have read, documentaries I have seen and studies I have looked at, is that if we want to make genuine changes to our planet and health, there is no harm is cutting down on meat consumption. You would make a bigger difference to climate change by eating less or no meat, than buying an electric car, and you would be healthier as a byproduct of that change.
 

Ed Selley

AVF Reviewer
No you are wrong. Amazon MUSIC HD is upsampling. This has already been complained about by many.
my Audioquest Cobalt and Chord Mojo show the ACTUAL resolution being received which is always upsampled. This is the sane result from my iPadPro - USB-C, iPhone, Apple MAC.

You should do your homework. There are lots of people that have highlighted this problem.

also I discussed with Audioquest Engineering in Netherlands who also confirmed this problem with Amazon MUSIC HD. Initially I thought it was a problem with my dragonfly cobalt and so when I discussed with Audioquest they explained the reasons why.
On Windows- provided that the WASAPI settings are correct, the service is not upsampling. My 'homework' is just fine. If there's an issue with OSX compatibility, that might be a different issue. I also have a Mojo (and a Hugo, and a Hugo2 and a TT2) and they're all performing this correctly.

To put it another way, Amazon has gone to considerable lengths to mark the sample rate of the high res content. What possible reason would there be for doing so if it was all then being shunted out at the same sample rate?
 

cooperda

Active Member
Still listening - but paused to comment on Ed's remark about Summer - No you won't be hot in the house then - I have the full wall insulation (Warm 'n Toasty) and it keeps the heat OUT (of the house) in the Summer :)
 

Jek99

Active Member
Funnily enough that article reads as very one-sided like the author has some really big chips on his shoulder. (It's almost like the kind of rebuttal you would expect from someone with interests in intensive farming or the meat trade. Not saying the author is, but that is how it can be interpreted.)

As always the truth will be somewhere in the middle.

My biggest take away from all of the articles I have read, documentaries I have seen and studies I have looked at, is that if we want to make genuine changes to our planet and health, there is no harm is cutting down on meat consumption. You would make a bigger difference to climate change by eating less or no meat, than buying an electric car, and you would be healthier as a byproduct of that change.
As I don't have Netflix I can't comment on "Gamechangers" but I have read the article mentioned (and the rebuttal of that article) and I wouldn't say the Men's Health article is unduly biased.

As I understand it, it is not possible to tell wether the soya grown on cleared rain forest land, goes into animal feed or plant based products such as Tofu and soya milk (I would be happy to be proved wrong), also the method used in the Paris agreement for assessing the impact of methane on climate change (GWP100) is questionable and could be replaced by (GWP*) which could reduce the climate change impact of meat considerably (again as I understand it). A solution to the misrepresentations of CO2-equivalent emissions of short-lived climate pollutants under ambitious mitigation

I would agree that it probably won't hurt to cut down on meat, but cutting down on meat substitutes probably won't hurt either. (An article in the Guardian last year stated that chicken had 1/3 of the co2 impact that Tofu had)

Anyway I'm off to get some Qourn sausages and test wether they really do taste the same as pork sausages.

Ps

Love the podcast
 

Steve Withers

Reviewer
Anyway I'm off to get some Qourn sausages and test wether they really do taste the same as pork sausages.
I'm not saying they taste the same as pork sausages, but when prepared by a skilled chef they can certainly taste very convincing. My wife definitely fooled me when she served them as hot dogs. And I love sausages (and all other forms of meat for that matter).
 

Toon Army

Well-known Member
Long time since I've read a thread on any website that has involved audio sampling rates and quorn sausages.

Keep up the good work gents.
 

clydebest

Distinguished Member
Amazon HD i guess it depends on who it is aimed at .. having also used Tidal the sound to me is as good and not better than each other.. i think @joker has some very expensive kit where as i am using a Sony WH1000XM3 A Denon Ceol A Sony hi-res speaker which can handle 24 bit tracks same with a Yamaha musicast receiver/amp Hi Res compliant which to your average punter would be a expense that many would not out lay.. but as we all know you can spend 10's of'000's of pounds and still find more expensive kit to buy.

So Amazon hd top tier cost is £12.99 (prime member ) and Tidal is £24 big difference.. i like the Ultra Hd on the Amazon and seems to be much more extensive than on Tidal... also what do you want from a music streaming service.. i myself wish to find the original recordings on the records that i wish to listen .. it matters not to me if a song i have no wish to listen to is offered in the highest res.. This is where for me Tidal falls down far too many non original recordings .. and the replacement tracks sounds like it has been recorded by a hastily assembled pub band which has little if anything of the original band /singer

I have a few thousand songs in my Amazon library and the Chi-lites aside they are mostly the original band/singer / recording and are either in HD/Uhd and to my ears on my equipment they sound excellent.. that's me i would take Amazon HD over Tidal everyday and twice on Sunday

If you have expensive (very) AV Equipment Tidal may well sound better but we are talking a very niche market and Amazon do not do niche .. so there's is much more likely appeal to a wider audience to whom even my setup is considered highbrow.
 

Rockets

Active Member
The current endless franchise non original movies are likely to come to an end (yes there will always be sequels but not at this insane level). It's really down to when the public start voting by foot/wallet.

Don't buy the the idea these 'new' cinemas need big action movies to be appreciated. Any film with decent visuals and soundtrack will take full advantage of it. Example amazing landscapes and beautiful music.

I wouldn't say £400 for a rug which is decent quality and made from wool isn't a rip off (unless it is like 1 metre square). Just in weight alone it is probably equivalent to 20 wool jumpers. It's probably easy for me to say as I spent £400 on a rug 20 years ago :eek: (still looks and feels good though).
 

John

Moderator
I'm curious if you can remove the gold plating from the insulation @Ed Selley ?
£7k !?! jfc
 

Ed Selley

AVF Reviewer
Quorn mince is
I'm curious if you can remove the gold plating from the insulation @Ed Selley ?
£7k !?! jfc
It's everywhere. I briefly poked my head in the loft and I no longer have a loft space, just layers of the stuff. I didn't meet the previous owners but they had some... distinctive... ideas.
 

John

Moderator
but £100 @ B&Q will buy more 200m insulation than anyone could ever need for a normal house
Forget the CH and just use a candle ;)
 

Ed Selley

AVF Reviewer
but £100 @ B&Q will buy more 200m insulation than anyone could ever need for a normal house
Forget the CH and just use a candle ;)
Some sort of goo has been squirted into the wall cavities too. Thing is, it isn't my money and right now I'm pleasantly warm.
 

LicensedTaximan

Well-known Member
I have also cut down my red meat consumption by a good 50% / 60%, in fact I actually prefer (although I have never consumed a lot of them anyway) .... SAUSAGES. The various alternative based macrobiotic and other plant based products of.... SAUSAGES.... taste and have a texture that i'm very happy with.
As far as the mince is concerned Ed I just don't like the taste or texture so that's a no, no for me.

I do eat a lot more fish now, fresh salmon, smoked salmon, cod loins, fresh tuna, fresh trout etc, etc, so my hippocampus (or is that hippocampi!!!) is enlarged even more so due to the advantages of consuming more brain enhancement pisces than when I completed the KOL (Knowledge Of London) to become a London taxi driver eons ago. Plant based burgers are also a thumbs up in the LT household (once again not loads of them) and I also eat a lot of vegetables, so I don't need to power the taxi by diesel anymore. I just bung a tube up my bottom and through to the engine intake and off we go. :facepalm: Anyway that's my contribution regarding all things AV o_O on this weeks poddy.... Luv LT.... Keep healthy and go regularly. 🚾 🚮 ;)
 
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84% of vegans/vegetarians go back to eating animal products for health reasons at some point

95% of vegans/vegetarians eat animal products when Drunk!


Humans are omnivores, in 'natural' cultures not those raised on manufactured processed crap that most western diets consist of meat is seen as a 'prize' and people eat what they need to maintain themselves. Maasai, Amazon Indians, Innuit..These people eat meat/fish, on a regular basis yet maintain lean healthy bodies: heart disease, diabetes and cancer are almost unknown. and they create literally no impact on the planet as they have done so for hundreds of years

the reason the planet is going to hell is the sheer scale of both plant and animal farming and the incredible amount of waste that ensues, we over produce and eat so much crap food that leads to the well documented rapidly increasing health issues: Obesity, diabetes, heart disease, cancer etc etc.

Simple take away ………..don't eat crap food ……...don't over eat...……...and do what your grandparents told you ………….everything in moderation...……………...and exercise
 

Built To Chill

Well-known Member
I don’t know much about the Amazon Indians or Inuit, but the Masai actually rarely eat meat - they see their livestock as too valuable to slaughter. When they do, their tradition of drinking milk mixed with cows blood is thought to help with undernourishment, in that it sort of congeals in the stomach and stops one feeling hungry. Lean bodies they tend to have, yes, but I think it’s fair to say it’s not a result of an idyllic diet...

I eat a lot of meat - I’m sorry to say covering mainly the lower spectrum of quality - but have been meaning to cut back for ages. Thanks for the reminder lads, will def check out the documentary.

On an AV note, @Ed Selley, you mentioned Amazon HD only has blue sound on board 3rd party wise. So I guess their existing integrations with the likes of Sonos and HEOS still works but just doesn’t give you HD music?

Cheers for a great ep.
 

Toon Army

Well-known Member
Thought Ed's comments about music streaming services were interesting. With regards to Tidal's situation, you can get a free two month trial if you are a Times newspaper subscriber. I'm more than happy with my Spotify Premium Family ( especially the kids ), but I would like a better download quality. Is this Tidal deal a possible sign of the issues they are facing?
 

rousetafarian

Moderator
Some sort of goo has been squirted into the wall cavities too. Thing is, it isn't my money and right now I'm pleasantly warm.
And the tawdry euphemism of the week goes to......
 

Kailash

Well-known Member
Simple take away ………..don't eat crap food ……...don't over eat...……...and do what your grandparents told you ………….everything in moderation...……………...and exercise
watched The Game Changers and disliked the propaganda being thrown at me. i'd agree best to just eat everything in moderation (unless you want to go vegetarian) . i try and have my vegetarian dinners a couple of times a week and then meat a few times a week. as said we are coming up on 8billion people on the planet, it's going to have an affect on the environment
 
watched The Game Changers and disliked the propaganda being thrown at me. i'd agree best to just eat everything in moderation (unless you want to go vegetarian) . i try and have my vegetarian dinners a couple of times a week and then meat a few times a week. as said we are coming up on 8billion people on the planet, it's going to have an affect on the environment
what they didn't tell you
The propaganda film ..I mean 'documentary' was funded by a Pea Protein company, every 'expert' in the film is a vegan who sells vegan books and products, many people who were scheduled to appear were cut from the movie because...……………...they started eating animal products again before it came out...…………..Arnie (who won all his titles eating copious amounts of meat) has recently invested in a Pea protein company...……………..much of the research quoted is utterly flawed,biased and cherry picked with a huge amount of assumptions thrown in ………………….but hey it makes good TV....or not
 

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