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AVForums Podcast - Has OLED reached its peak? 2020 TVs coming soon, film reviews and more - 20/01/2020

invisiblekid

Distinguished Member
Nothing wrong with speaking your mind. You have the choice of not listening to that section of the podcast.
I have no problem with people speaking there mind. I did consider not listening cos knew what it would contain. So only have myself to blame

Just glad for now it's over. Both the films and discussion of them.
 

boabis

Active Member
All the recent films have been helmed by white men, why not get Taika Waititi or Jordan Peele, or snap up Patty Jenkins when she finishes with Wonder Woman?


what has the colour or gender of the director of a film got to do with it? the only thing that truly matters is competence whatever the the ethnicity,gender, of the artist.

the fact that Star Wars was conceived, written and brought into being by the vision of a white man makes this comment even more ridiculous
There is truly not an eye-roll emoji big enough for this comment. Maybe the films would be better if they reflected the spectrum of life experience, opinions and insights that people share in the modern day multicultural society, and weren’t kept as the sole creative preserve of middle-aged white men?

Rian Johnson drops a turd like Last Jedi and there is still chatter around giving him another chance (or three), talk about privilege.
 

Toon Army

Well-known Member
Thanks gents - Bet Steve feels better now getting all that off his chest. Must admit I missed half the points raised at the time when watching the movie. After further reflection, I realise how poor the final edition was in reality.
 

AncientYouth

Active Member
utter woke nonsense , and your ridiculous Rian Johnson comments makes no sense, if a woman or BME person is the best person for the job sure have at it, but to simply choose someone because of their gender or race is just a bit silly and in fact really patronizing not only to them but to the paying public.

clearly you haven't seen |Force Awakens or TLJ or ROS as they were extremely female focused with a high degree of diversity and the main character is Female!

BTW its set in space in a galaxy far far away so technically has nothing to do with Earth or our society!
 

boabis

Active Member
utter woke nonsense , and your ridiculous Rian Johnson comments makes no sense, if a woman or BME person is the best person for the job sure have at it, but to simply choose someone because of their gender or race is just a bit silly and in fact really patronizing not only to them but to the paying public.

clearly you haven't seen |Force Awakens or TLJ or ROS as they were extremely female focused with a high degree of diversity and the main character is Female!

BTW its set in space in a galaxy far far away so technically has nothing to do with Earth or our society!
Maybe, given the largely “meh” reaction to this series of films, the middle-aged white guys weren’t the best qualified, but somehow got the job anyway? Why on earth could that be?

Maybe, given said “meh” reaction, Lucasfilm shouldn’t give someone like Abrams/Johnson their 3rd chance to fail, and open up their recruitment to someone with a different worldview?

The argument that a fantasy film can’t reflect current attitudes in our society is probably the most naive thing I’ve ever heard someone say.
 

AncientYouth

Active Member
you see your answer lacks details,genuine insight or basic knowledge, no one said that these guys were great...but they are hardly the Only white male directors in the world are they?..........

–– ADVERTISEMENT ––​

you also overlook the basic facts that the Force Awakens made over £2 Billion and movies funnily enough are made to make money so you can see why Disney carried on as they were going as they thought they were onto a winner but after the disaster of TLJ they were left desperately trying to course correct and had pretty much killed off or they had died in real life the original and much loved trio so they were left in the position of retconning the whole story.
Regardless of the director by all accounts the films direction was largely dictated Disney top brass who basically told the hapless Abraham's what to do and ignored what he had planned anyway so it ended up a film by committee.....

Additionally they sacked the original planned director whose story was better (The Duel Fates) and more coherent and they have form as they sacked the original directors of the Solo movie75% into the filming and that turned out to be the first Star Wars commercial failure when it turned out as you say MEH?

I'd love to hear what 'spectrum of life experience, opinions and insights that people share in the modern day multicultural society' you think? that could have been included in this trilogy that was missed out and could have contributed effectively to the narrative seeing as the films had : very diverse casting, an abundance of strong female characters, touched on themes of slavery, animal welfare; the meaning of family and identity, totalitarianism, 'Human' Sacrifice and the meaning of death.


personally i watch these films for escapism for a couple of hours Far Far Away from everyday worldy concerns....if i want to know about that i'll watch a few documentaries on BBC2
 
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boabis

Active Member
you see your answer lacks details,genuine insight or basic knowledge, no one said that these guys were great...but they are hardly the Only white male directors in the world are they?..........

you also overlook the basic facts that the Force Awakens made over £2 Billion and movies funnily enough are made to make money so you can see why Disney carried on as they were going as they thought they were onto a winner but after the disaster of TLJ they were left desperately trying to course correct and had pretty much killed off they had died in real life the original and much loved trio so they were left in the position of retconning the whole story.
Regardless of the director by all accounts the films direction was largely dictated Disney top brass who basically told the hapless Abraham's what to do and ignored what he had planned anyway so it ended up a film by committee.....

Additionally they sacked the original planned director whose story was better (The Duel Fates) and more coherent and they have form as they sacked the original directors of the Solo movie75% into the filming and that turned out to be the first Star Wars commercial failure when it turned out as you say MEH?

I'd love to hear what 'spectrum of life experience, opinions and insights that people share in the modern day multicultural society' you think? that could have been included in this trilogy that was missed out and could have contributed effectively to the narrative seeing as the films had : very diverse casting, an abundance of strong female characters, touched on themes of slavery, animal welfare; the meaning of family and identity, totalitarianism, 'Human' Sacrifice and the meaning of death.
They could have written something new and exciting instead of a doing a tired tribute tour of past successes?

Ultimately, what I’m getting at is that they played it far too safe, and instead of trusting and investing in the newest, exciting talent, they picked some uninspiring directors and didn’t plan out what they were trying to do.

The cinematic success story of the last decade has been the Marvel films which, while still being mass-market entertainment, have managed to bring on exciting new directorial talent and broaden the appeal of blockbuster films beyond their traditional demographic. They also managed to to weave together a vast number of films and story threads to a satisfactory conclusion.
 

AncientYouth

Active Member
And The cinematic success story of the last decade has been the Marvel films which, while still being mass-market entertainment, have managed to bring on exciting new directorial talent and broaden the appeal of blockbuster films beyond their traditional demographic.
And written and directed by middle aged white men!:facepalm: Kevin Feige and the Russo Brothers and with a few female and black characters in the mix BUT all pretty much based around white men who are by far the leading characters
Iron Man, Thor, Hulk(Banner) Captain America,Bucky, Ant Man, Spider man, Hawkeye, Dr Strange,Star lord even the baddies were generally white ...Thanos ,Vulture, Loki, Mysterio, etc

The were pretty formulaic and stuck to the basic comics so i have no idea what broader appeal you are talking about which probably helps explain their huge success....its only when they went wokeish and shoe horned in Captain Marvel that they nearly came unstuck and her role was considerably reduced in the End Game movie

Star Wars was in fact far more of an attempt to 'broaden the appeal' of the franchise especially TLJ!

TLJ was hardly playing it safe they actively went WOKE , killed off beloved characters or sidelined them and it spectacularly back fired and SOLO caught the flack and lost money.

The Rise of Skywalker was pretty much DOA and was largely a damage limitation exercise....and as i said largely edited and controlled by Disney not the director.

the failure of star wars was having NO overall plan or vision so they end up with a disjointed mess
 
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boabis

Active Member
As
And The cinematic success story of the last decade has been the Marvel films which, while still being mass-market entertainment, have managed to bring on exciting new directorial talent and broaden the appeal of blockbuster films beyond their traditional demographic.
And written and directed by middle aged white men!:facepalm: Kevin Feige and the Russo Brothers and with a few female and black characters in the mix BUT all pretty much based around white men who are by far the leading characters
Iron Man, Thor, Hulk(Banner) Captain America,Bucky, Ant Man, Spider man, Hawkeye, Dr Strange,Star lord even the baddies were generally white ...Thanos actor!

The were pretty formulaic and stuck to the basic comics so i have no idea what broader appeal you are talking about which probably helps explain their huge success....its only when they went wokeish and shoe horned in Captain Marvel that they nearly came unstuck and her role was considerably reduced in the End Game movie

Star Wars was in fact far more of an attempt to 'broaden the appeal' of the franchise especially TLJ!

TLJ was hardly playing it safe they actively went WOKE , killed off beloved characters or sidelined them and it spectacularly back fired and SOLO caught the flack and lost money.

The Rise of Skywalker was pretty much DOA and was largely a damage limitation exercise....and as i said largely edited and controlled by Disney not the director.

the failure of star wars was having NO overall plan or vision so they end up with a disjointed mess
Your argument is beginning to self-destruct.

The MCU has given a shot to up-and-coming or non-blockbuster directors and reaped the benefits:

Jon Favreau
Ryan Coogler
Russo Brothers
Joss Whedon
Alan Taylor
James Gunn
Peyton Reed
Jon Watts
Taika Waititi
Anna Boden & Ryan Fleck

Now there’s still inevitably a lot of white dudes in there, and not every film was a knockout, but they didn’t just get Mr Predictable McBlockbuster to hash together an incoherent nostalgic firework display. By giving creative freedom to a range of different voices (within the framework of the MCU), they delivered films that vary in tone, theme and style, yet still hold together as a series.

To your somewhat childish “woke is broke” argument, both Black Panther & Captain Marvel made over a billion each, got good reviews and will have sequels. They also managed to annoy the usual collection of 4chan knuckle-draggers, racists and misogynists by being good-quality, successful films that were inclusive of under-represented groups, which is a bonus.

Brie Larson’s role wasn’t “scaled back” for Infinity War/Endgame, the actual truth is that she was filming her own film at the same time so couldn’t be in both. Also Marvel is a slightly OP character who could match Thanos, so it was helpful story-wise to sideline her a bit and keep her for the finale.

Going way back to my original point (that you clearly misunderstood), I’m not saying that giving women/PoC a chance will automatically make a film good. However if they are never given the chance, and you favour the safe choice of pale, male & stale, all we will see are play-it-safe rehashes of the same plotlines, with the occasional gesture of tokenistic modern “flavour”.
 

AncientYouth

Active Member
Talking of weak arguments your comparison of a trilogy designed to finish a story line that effectively ended 40 years to everyone's satisfaction to an 11 year year old series of 21 films is hardly a cohesive argument and its not as if they had a myriad of characters to play with and the world building possibilities of such a franchise with 7x the amount of films to play with.

Black Panther was not an especially woke film the main protaganist just happened to be black and it was a fun and enjoyable ....and silly...romp, Captain Marvel was awful but road the coat tails of being in between 2 of the biggest and most anticipated movies of all time and was hyped to the hills so it had great but largely undeserved 'buzz and lets be honest End Game was not a great film relying on good ole Time travel zzzzzz and undermining its own villain's complexity.

As for star wars Abrams was a well known Action director but Johnson had only done Looper ...hardly a blockbuster and indie films so he was clearly a 'risky' proposition and so it turned out to be not a good one.


However your original argument utterly fails as the 3 star wars films were far more diverse, which you conveniently overlook
'an abundance of strong female characters, touched on themes of slavery, animal welfare; the meaning of family and identity, totalitarianism, 'Human' Sacrifice and the meaning of death.'
never mind the casting of a black actor John Boyega in a lead role, in the FOA and then sadly under utilised and the fact that REY IS A WOMAN! what more do you want fella? oH yeah there was a lesbian kiss at the end ......though it was cut from the singapore and chinese releases................Oh well nothing like not sticking to your principles
 

boabis

Active Member
Talking of weak arguments your comparison of a trilogy designed to finish a story line that effectively ended 40 years to everyone's satisfaction to an 11 year year old series of 21 films is hardly a cohesive argument and its not as if they had a myriad of characters to play with and the world building possibilities of such a franchise with 7x the amount of films to play with.

Black Panther was not an especially woke film the main protaganist just happened to be black and it was a fun and enjoyable ....and silly...romp, Captain Marvel was awful but road the coat tails of being in between 2 of the biggest and most anticipated movies of all time and was hyped to the hills so it had great but largely undeserved 'buzz and lets be honest End Game was not a great film relying on good ole Time travel zzzzzz and undermining its own villain's complexity.

As for star wars Abrams was a well known Action director but Johnson had only done Looper ...hardly a blockbuster and indie films so he was clearly a 'risky' proposition and so it turned out to be not a good one.


However your original argument utterly fails as the 3 star wars films were far more diverse, which you conveniently overlook
'an abundance of strong female characters, touched on themes of slavery, animal welfare; the meaning of family and identity, totalitarianism, 'Human' Sacrifice and the meaning of death.'
never mind the casting of a black actor John Boyega in a lead role, in the FOA and then sadly under utilised and the fact that REY IS A WOMAN! what more do you want fella? oH yeah there was a lesbian kiss at the end ......though it was cut from the singapore and chinese releases................Oh well nothing like not sticking to your principles
you’re just arguing with yourself now, and making my case for me, it’s embarrassing.

“They cast a black guy and a woman! How much more representation do you need?!”

A lot more, is the answer.

Can’t believe Laurence Fox is an AV forums member.
 

AncientYouth

Active Member
well that's pretty selective and out of context quoting! i said a whole lot more than that and you know it but conveniently ignore it anyway let me refresh you memory

an abundance of strong female characters, touched on themes of slavery, animal welfare; the meaning of family and identity, totalitarianism, 'Human' Sacrifice and the meaning of death.'


i have more respect for a man such as FOX who has principles and sticks to them.....you have talked yourself into a corner. Well actually the casting of a woman as the lead character in the most famous film franchise of all time is something to behold and if done right could have been amazing..............

At least we still have Ripley.............. a well rounded amazing , gritty Real character that overcame a real threat .........................and was superb and that is about 40 years old as well,


I bet you loved the Gillette Ads last years.

Sadly the box office and audience numbers does not agree with you with regards to 'Woke' entertainment....

lets leave it there shall we
 

boabis

Active Member
well that's pretty selective and out of context quoting! i said a whole lot more than that and you know it but conveniently ignore it anyway let me refresh you memory

an abundance of strong female characters, touched on themes of slavery, animal welfare; the meaning of family and identity, totalitarianism, 'Human' Sacrifice and the meaning of death.'


i have more respect for a man such as FOX who has principles and sticks to them.....you have talked yourself into a corner. Well actually the casting of a woman as the lead character in the most famous film franchise of all time is something to behold and if done right could have been amazing..............

At least we still have Ripley.............. a well rounded amazing , gritty Real character that overcame a real threat .........................and was superb and that is about 40 years old as well,


I bet you loved the Gillette Ads last years.

Sadly the box office and audience numbers does not agree with you with regards to 'Woke' entertainment....

lets leave it there shall we
Ah so you’re just a right-wing bigot. That explains it.

cheerio
 

AncientYouth

Active Member
And eventually the standard resort to name calling when ones argument and flawed logic is exposed for the weak nonsense it is.... Welcome to the world of SJW woke
 

richardsim7

Distinguished Member
"he's won a few" I wish, that was my first win :p
 
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