AVForums Podcast: 6th April 2016

Discussion in 'Podcasts' started by Phil Hinton, Apr 5, 2016.


    1. Phil Hinton

      Phil Hinton
      Editor Staff Member

      Joined:
      Jan 18, 2001
      Messages:
      10,211
      Products Owned:
      3
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Location:
      AVForums
      Ratings:
      +8,314
      This week we discuss;
      00:00:53 - Current Competitions
      00:01:15 - Samsung announce launch date and pricing for UBD-K8500 Ultra HD Blu-ray player
      00:07:35 - Upcoming Events - LG OLED Launch and Panasonic UHD Blu-ray Player Session
      00:08:26 - Pre-Spectracal interview glossary
      00:15:23 - Spectracal HDR Interview
      01:01:36 - What’s at the cinema Steve? - The Huntsman: Winter's War and Midnight Special
      01:03:58 - The first Ultra HD Blu-rays are released in the UK next week
      01:05:18 - Goodbyes

      Presented by Phil Hinton with Steve Withers and Mark Hodgkinson

      Note: If you are having problems with subscription services and Apps, please deselect and then re-subscribe to the podcast feed, thanks.

      Subscription link: AVForums Podcast


      Time: 01:06:13| File Size: 82mb | Direct Link
       
      • Like Like x 2
      • Thanks Thanks x 2
      • List
    2. rob9674

      rob9674
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Feb 25, 2016
      Messages:
      57
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      18
      Location:
      USA
      Ratings:
      +70
      Sounds like Dolby Vision is a very good thing to have. HDR10 is the wild west right now
       
    3. Phil Hinton

      Phil Hinton
      Editor Staff Member

      Joined:
      Jan 18, 2001
      Messages:
      10,211
      Products Owned:
      3
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Location:
      AVForums
      Ratings:
      +8,314
      Only the upcoming LG OLED's are DV ready. There is no support from any other manufacturer, there are no UHD BDs yet and there are no players. Plus, Netflix is yet to start their streaming (which will be HDR10 as well). It seems like the rest of the industry are not quite ready to give in to paying Dolby licensing for the technology.
       
    4. connect

      connect
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Aug 27, 2003
      Messages:
      726
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      1
      Trophy Points:
      46
      Ratings:
      +177
      Sorry - This is regarding the last podcast where you had a Panasonic DX700. Will there be a review of it soon? Or did Panasonic hear that you weren't all the amazed by it and pull it for review!?
       
    5. Phil Hinton

      Phil Hinton
      Editor Staff Member

      Joined:
      Jan 18, 2001
      Messages:
      10,211
      Products Owned:
      3
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Location:
      AVForums
      Ratings:
      +8,314
      Review is being done this week, just waiting on a UHD BD Player to finish it off.
       
    6. connect

      connect
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Aug 27, 2003
      Messages:
      726
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      1
      Trophy Points:
      46
      Ratings:
      +177
      Thanks Phil. Amazing!!
       
    7. steviedr

      steviedr
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      May 23, 2006
      Messages:
      5,529
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Ratings:
      +3,354
      Wow, and this is an organised (all coming together) industry this year, I'm out until 2017 for sure.
      Cant wait to see it all working nicely though, sounds fantastic. The whole 2020/P3 comments were very interesting.
      Nice interview guys, would love to hear more special guests over the next few months if its possible $$.
       
      Last edited: Apr 6, 2016
    8. mrmrh

      mrmrh
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Jul 4, 2015
      Messages:
      167
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      6
      Trophy Points:
      31
      Location:
      Dublin, Ireland
      Ratings:
      +72
      Thanks @Steve Withers for the rant on USD vs GBP - I agree completely that there's a LOT more to it than just a straight conversion in Google/XE.
       
      • Thanks Thanks x 1
      • Agree Agree x 1
      • Funny Funny x 1
      • List
    9. vaktmestern

      vaktmestern
      Banned

      Joined:
      Apr 20, 2012
      Messages:
      8,476
      Products Owned:
      35
      Products Wanted:
      21
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Ratings:
      +3,540
      Vizio has Dolby vision on they top end tvs.
       
    10. Phil Hinton

      Phil Hinton
      Editor Staff Member

      Joined:
      Jan 18, 2001
      Messages:
      10,211
      Products Owned:
      3
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Location:
      AVForums
      Ratings:
      +8,314
      In the US. This is the UK.
       
    11. welshrobbo

      welshrobbo
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Nov 11, 2015
      Messages:
      194
      Products Owned:
      1
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      31
      Location:
      Abingdon
      Ratings:
      +31
      Hi,

      Really great podcast and extremely informative.

      I hope this is a good question and is something relevant but if you had £1000 today to spend on a TV (50-55") which one would you purchase? Is it now worth waiting until the end of the year and seeing what happens with HDR as this might encourage a price drop across older models. I put together a list of budget TV's that may be worth purchasing:

      Panasonic 50-CX802B
      Samsung J6400
      Panasonic TX-50CX700B
      Philips 55PUT6400

      Thanks for your help.

      Martin.
       
    12. Habanero

      Habanero
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      May 23, 2006
      Messages:
      1,015
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      83
      Ratings:
      +446
      My conclusion listening to the HDR discussion is that it's a bit of a pig's breakfast at the moment. On the plus side, you're going to have plenty of content to fill the podcast and forums!
       
    13. witchdrash

      witchdrash
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Feb 20, 2008
      Messages:
      592
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      1
      Trophy Points:
      46
      Ratings:
      +171
      Really interesting.

      Still planning to dip in to HDR depending on tv deals around the euros.

      The interesting thing to know is how flexible the mapping tables in these TVs are, I would have expected that a firmware update later on down the line could adjust them to a more industry standard later on down the line, if that's possible then jumping on board now isn't a problem as updating the mapping tables later on would bring the TVs closer into alignment, of course if these are burned into hardware then that's an issue, but I'd be very surprised if they were!


      Also since most of our content these days is still sd, not even he, major concerns about one tv mapping X to y and a different X to z when displaying HDR probably isn't a major issue, as by the time a lot of content is available in 4K and HDR we'll probably all be 3 TVs further down the road
       
    14. invisiblekid

      invisiblekid
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      May 10, 2009
      Messages:
      4,563
      Products Owned:
      4
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Ratings:
      +3,466
      It is kind of I agree, but not everything will be DV. Everything has to be HDR10 and for free.
       
    15. stevos

      stevos
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      May 16, 2004
      Messages:
      6,157
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      136
      Ratings:
      +572
      His comment really bugged me, because it was based on half the story and really not very accurate. Most AV products you are talking a 1:1 dolar to pound conversion and all the factors he mentions go no where near explaining that. The 1:1 conversion on most purchases is mainly profitering.

      His 3rd point is clearly rubbish (cost of import), the items are not built in the US, and so whether it comes to the UK or the US there is transit costs. Then you add that the US is a lot bigger and you have to add very expensive road carriage to the cost (expensive per mile than sea). In addition the US has pretty heavy import taxes.

      The tax point is also a little weak, as average state tax is around 5-8%. So you would expect maybe 8% difference. On top the reason Amazon got so big in the US, is that cross state purchases the tax is not added, which people are meant to add themselves but no one does, but ok you can't take that into account.

      Hedging on exchance rates is fair but 1:1 or close is extreme hedging. In addition large corporates get better exchanges than on XE etc.

      Finally you have to consider that corporate tax rates in the UK are lower currently than in the US and so should be a gain there.

      And a seperate point, have a trip to the continent and look at how much cheaper most items are than in the UK (look at for example amazon germany or italy).

      So either counting for extreme hedging and 8% state tax,i don't see how we get close to the 40%ish exchange rate difference aka markup.
       
    16. oxfordyankee

      oxfordyankee
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      May 6, 2004
      Messages:
      3,082
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      106
      Ratings:
      +375
      The levels of concentration I had to maintain to keep up with the podcast drew me to this conclusion:

      Paying for a professional calibrator to take away all the hurt is a very good idea, indeed.

      So much so I expected to hear the following at the end:

      "This podcast was brought to you by the Association of UK Video Calibrators" ;)
       
      • Funny Funny x 3
      • Like Like x 1
      • List
    17. raymondo77

      raymondo77
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Aug 14, 2013
      Messages:
      5,751
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      3
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Location:
      Reading, Berkshire
      Ratings:
      +8,317
      Thanks guys, I thoroughly enjoyed the interview with the SpectraCal guys, more content like this would be very welcome.:)
       
    18. invisiblekid

      invisiblekid
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      May 10, 2009
      Messages:
      4,563
      Products Owned:
      4
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Ratings:
      +3,466
      Haha! Ditto
       
    19. Jek99

      Jek99
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Aug 24, 2013
      Messages:
      462
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      63
      Ratings:
      +299
      Also totally agree, I've posted the breakdown of importing the player onto the relevant forum but I don't think anyone took any notice. The part that makes me laugh is that not only do you pay duty and vat, you also pay vat on the duty!
       
    20. Jek99

      Jek99
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Aug 24, 2013
      Messages:
      462
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      63
      Ratings:
      +299
      Please see my earlier post, I'm more than happy to share the exact figures. US sales tax is irrelevant, our vat rate is 20%, from memory the duty rate is 13%, the vat on duty will be 2.6%.
       
    21. NickInWiltshire

      NickInWiltshire
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      May 30, 2013
      Messages:
      2,376
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      116
      Ratings:
      +1,200
      The HDR discussion was very interesting. The big change from SDR is that instead of doing the soft clipping from the true range to what will be displayed in the camera (or during production) the true range is carried all the way to the display device which then does a soft clip based on what it is capable of and any additional taste-based choices it feels like making. We are going to see a lot of "taste-based" dubious options being available in the future for shop floor use I suspect (similar to a vivid high gamma option).

      But as far as calibration is concerned it does not make sense to try to calibrate through an arbitrary mapping from true range to display. You need to be able to specify a value the display should show and adjust until it is correct. So sets are going to need a way to turn off the mapping while they are calibrated (and use a hard clip instead outside their abilities).
       
    22. stevos

      stevos
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      May 16, 2004
      Messages:
      6,157
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      136
      Ratings:
      +572
      I can't see your earlier post, but i am curious.
       
    23. NickInWiltshire

      NickInWiltshire
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      May 30, 2013
      Messages:
      2,376
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      116
      Ratings:
      +1,200
      If anyone is interested in the kind of function you need to map from the reference master to whatever the display can do, have a look at figure 20 on page 22 in this report

      https://www.itu.int/dms_pub/itu-r/opb/rep/R-REP-BT.2390-2016-PDF-E.pdf

      which also shows one way to create the function needed. What is interesting is that it rolls off the response not just for the very bright areas but also for the very dark areas. So an OLED may well show much more dark detail than an LCD, or at least maintain the contrast between darker elements further towards black.

      It's almost like they've reinvented analogue electronics again, where you could spend 1000s of pounds to extract ever decreasing amounts of extra detail from the source!
       
    24. Jek99

      Jek99
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Aug 24, 2013
      Messages:
      462
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      63
      Ratings:
      +299
      Based on a US price of $399 and a conversion rate of 1.37 to £1 the UK cost works out as follows: Unit cost £291.24, Duty £37.86 and Vat £65.82. This gives a total cost of £394.92 and a total Vat/Duty of £103.68. Obviously this excludes the cost of the UHD blu ray included in the UK £429.99 price. I don't know what duty/ sales tax is included in the $399 price
       
    25. stevos

      stevos
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      May 16, 2004
      Messages:
      6,157
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      136
      Ratings:
      +572
      No, sales tax is not included in the $399, as this varies per state. Remember the days when Staples first came to the UK and applied US logic, all the prices showed were excluding VAT and you had to add it yourself before heading to the counter.

      US has some duty tax as well, which would be already included in the 399, so its not fair to add it to the UK price but not the US. Although i don't know how they compare, but pretty sure it won't make up the gap.

      So your comparing ($399 * 1.09) / 1.37 = £317

      UK price is £429, but that includes 1 disc, so unless the discs are £110 each, that is a comfortable markup.

      Hopefully i am missing something obvious.
       
      Last edited: Apr 8, 2016
    26. TommyDevine

      TommyDevine
      Novice Member

      Joined:
      Feb 24, 2016
      Messages:
      2
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      6
      Location:
      Sioux Falls South Dakota, USA
      Ratings:
      +1
      Great Podcast, I think HDR is going to be the norm in the not too distant future. I have the LG UHD OLED and the difference watching a UHD Bluray compared to one that doesn't use HDR mode is striking. Thanks for the pod.
       
    27. steve a

      steve a
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Dec 30, 2006
      Messages:
      270
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      46
      Location:
      Birmingham
      Ratings:
      +123
      Great podcast once again, thank you. The interview with the spectracal team was fascinating but way over my head.HDR seems the way forward,some good questions asked by yourselves to the Spectracal guys which were more layman's term's (which helped).If these HDR televising are on full dynamic shop window mode when on display in the usual electronic outlets stores then I better get some sunglasses.
       
    28. Technikal

      Technikal
      Active Member

      Joined:
      May 22, 2015
      Messages:
      95
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      18
      Location:
      Reading
      Ratings:
      +66
      In a healthy market it should never be possible to import something cheaper yourself with all the inherent inefficiencies that involves, regardless of market size and currency hedging. Consumers should not have to import to work around a dysfunctional market.
       
    29. stevos

      stevos
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      May 16, 2004
      Messages:
      6,157
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      136
      Ratings:
      +572
      I guess the counter argument is that the industry can only charges what the customer will pay and so we in the UK are willing to pay more than our American or European counterparts.
       
    30. Deesnutz

      Deesnutz
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Nov 8, 2010
      Messages:
      208
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      1
      Trophy Points:
      31
      Location:
      Shropshire
      Ratings:
      +64
      Wow ...mind officially blown :eek:
       

    Share This Page

    Loading...
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice