AVForums Podcast: 11th April 2016 - podcast discussion

Phil Hinton

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This week we discuss:

00:00:40 - What did we think of the Rogue One: A Star Wars Story teaser trailer?
00:08:13 - Current Competitions
00:08:33 - LG launch their OLED line-up for 2016
00:25:28 - Sony announce their VPL-HW45ES Full HD projector
00:33:11 - Sky expand their Sky Go service
00:36:14 - What’s at the cinema this Friday? - The Jungle Book
00:42:25 - Blu-rays released this Monday - Mr. Robot, Bride of Re-Animator, Trapped and Three Days of the Condor
00:46:00 - When a film has more than one version, which do we prefer and why?
00:55:00 - Goodbyes

Presented by Phil Hinton with Steve Withers and Mark Hodgkinson

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Time: 00:55:45|File Size: 72mb | Direct Link
 
Good chat again.

Have you read this yet?

4K Blu-ray vs Blu-ray Reveals HDR Is Too Dim for Daytime

Regarding differences between the Sony 65 & 45. I know with the 55 vs 40 the 55 had free 3D glasses, an iris, and several colour options, whilst the 40 had no free glasses, no iris, and only 1 colour mode (it was missing the best one, meaning post-calibration it was dimmer and with poorer contrast), as far as I recall.

Not sure if that's what will carry over. Does the 65 have an iris?

Steve W
 
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Who ever said HDR was designed for daytime viewing? Talk about making a story about nothing. We've always said that HDR is about increasing the dynamic range, which means more detail in both the darker and brighter parts of the image. Whilst the specular highlights can go very bright, it has never been about an overall brighter image and because the colourists have greater latitude when it comes to the darker parts of the image, they can grade the image itself darker. Whether you're watching SDR or HDR content, you should always minimise ambient light in order to optimise your viewing experience; daytime viewing has been and always will be a compromise regardless of content.
 
Are you sure you couldn't have got up a bit earlier to post the podcast Phil? :D
 
Who ever said HDR was designed for daytime viewing? Talk about making a story about nothing. We've always said that HDR is about increasing the dynamic range, which means more detail in both the darker and brighter parts of the image. Whilst the specular highlights can go very bright, it has never been about an overall brighter image and because the colourists have greater latitude when it comes to the darker parts of the image, they can grade the image itself darker. Whether you're watching SDR or HDR content, you should always minimise ambient light in order to optimise your viewing experience; daytime viewing has been and always will be a compromise regardless of content.

Obviously, the last part goes without saying.

But it's troubling to note that in most viewing conditions (I'm guessing most direct TV viewing isn't done in ideal conditions) the HDR picture could actually look worse.

The other worry is that Curry's shop floor is not usually noted for being the pinnacle of batcave-ness. If HDR looks less-good in a shop demo than SDR it'll make it a harder sell.

Steve W
 
I've watched HDR at home in different viewing conditions and it doesn't look worse regardless of the amount of ambient light, it fact I thought it looked amazing. As I said it's just someone trying to make a story out of nothing.

The point sale issue is an important one however, not because HDR won't look good but because the sales staff will need to be able to explain to potential customers exactly what HDR is, how it works and the benefits. Sadly technical expertise is hardly a strong point of most retailers.
 
Great podcast again, interesting as always, thank you. Rogue one is looking good, can't wait .That siren/claxon noise is so distinctive and makes you look at the TV all the time.I am looking forward to the write up and comparison of the budget projectors when it arrives later in the year.Cheer's.
 
Good podcast chaps, Steve that was a great rant about US/UK pricing :laugh: People get so hung up on pricing and don't even consider the different variables involved; the "rip off Britain" tagline got boring a long time ago.

Anyway...here's one that I'd be interested seeing you discuss on one of the future podcasts.

I've recently moved into projector-land again, and I'm absolutely loving the big screen experience. As a result, I've completely lost touch with TV technology and while HDR sounds amazing, in some ways I'm not overly interested (right now) as my setup is giving me an impact I've not experienced for years.

But are the projector's days numbered? If projectors cannot deliver HDR in any meaningful way, will interest wane in them? As much as people talk about massive OLED TVs in the near future, I can't help but think "yes but no matter how good it is...it won't be like the cinema". It's that word cinematic.

A bit like with the crappy 24 frames per second; yes we know it's technically inferior to higher refresh rates (and sweeping panning shots make me a bit nauseous when I see them in film), but it's what we've become used to and by default, it is what we associate with cinema. The Hobbit 48fps experiment demonstrated that technically better doesn't necessarily make a better experience, and whilst HDR is certainly different, there's a part of me which wants me to be disappointed in HDR so I can cling on to the wonderful cinematic experience that only a projected image can deliver.
 
Speaking of extended cuts of films, my pick for a film which wasn't very good in the theatrical cut but vastly improved with a longer version was (more cuts than a chef's fingers) Ridley Scott's The Counselor. The theatrical made little sense, but the extra scenes really sell just how hopeless the situation the counselor finds himself in and the unseen cartels god-like manipulation of the whole tragedy.
 
Thanks, I've had The Counsellor on Blu-ray since it was released but never bothered to watch it because I was so bored when I saw it at the cinema but I'll give it a go now. In case you're wondering why I bought a film I didn't like, I have all of Ridley Scott's films on Blu-ray apart from 1492, Someone to Watch Over Me and A Good Year, which haven't been released yet.
 
In case you're wondering why I bought a film I didn't like, I have all of Ridley Scott's films on Blu-ray apart from 1492, Someone to Watch Over Me and A Good Year, which haven't been released yet.
I can see like, thanks, agree but where's the sad button?
 
I haven't seen Someone to Watch Over Me in decades, but I remember it being really good. Looks like there will be an extended cut of The Martian complete with another brilliant doc by Charles de Lauzirika will be coming out later in the year too!
 
It will be interesting to see if the Batman v Superman ‘ultimate cut' (with 30 minutes extra) is better than the theatrical cut.

According to Zach Snyder the extra footage “was in there until very recently”. “It was really just a function of time, to be honest. Because the movie’s long now, long-ish—I don’t think it’s long, but when you get over two and a half hours the studio starts getting nervous. I’m not James Cameron who’s like ‘No it’s three hours, suck it!’, which is cool by the way. I just wanted to try and get it to a length that is work-able.”

Batman v Superman Deleted Scenes Revealed

Although I haven’t seen it isn’t the director’s cut of Watchmen meant to be better?
 
In the Podcast there were some comments about Sony's 3D and the variation of quality between models and even units of the same model. One thing that absolutely needs to be controlled when checking out the quality of 3D -- especially cross-talk is warm-up time. All non-DLP 3D units that I own absolutely stink with 3D UNLESS they have been given at least 15 to 20 minutes to warm up. This is true for my Epson LS10000, JVC RS500, JVC RS400, Epson 6010 and Epson 6020. So, in the event a reviewer decides to turn on a particular non-DLP projector to check out 3D and does not give it ample time to warm up he/she is probably going to experience a considerable amount of "ghosting" and will then note that the 3D is rubbish -- this may not be an accurate appraisal of the unit's 3D. I'm not saying this happens all the time but I suspect it happens more often than it should and could explain why some reviewers find the 3D with a particular unit quite good while another reviewer finds the 3D with the same projector to be poor.
 
I can't speak for other publications but we're certainly aware of the fact that projectors need time to reach optimal performance, that applies to 2D and 3D. Personally I often watch a 2D film first and then a 3D film to ensure that any crosstalk is at a minimum and the same goes for reviews.
 
I can't speak for other publications but we're certainly aware of the fact that projectors need time to reach optimal performance, that applies to 2D and 3D. Personally I often watch a 2D film first and then a 3D film to ensure that any crosstalk is at a minimum and the same goes for reviews.
Indeed, as an ex-CRT owner I still have the habit of switching on projectors I have in for testing, putting on a disc on loop and then going away and doing something else for at least an hour. By that time the projector is nice and warm and I can start testing and reviewing. If it is a new projector that has no hours on it, I always do at least a 24hr soak with the projector to add hours to the bulb before testing, and with high-end models that is more like 50 hours to check bulb stability. I have been known to add 100 hours to a sample in my testing time. So in regards to making sure the projector is warm, it's usually been running at least an hour or more before any testing, 3D or otherwise is done.
 
That's good to hear. There are a number of consumers out there who aren't (weren't) aware of the 3D warmup time for non-DLP displays, for example LCD T.V.s and this information would have allowed them to get the most out of their display in terms of minimum cross-talk when watching 3D material.

Some reviewers (like at AVForms) may be cognizant of 3D warmup times but I suspect others are not and this might at least partially explain why comments about 3D with a particular unit might vary among reviews. I own and have owned a number of 3D capable projectors and have never seen any kind of manufacturers' note or caution regarding warmup times prior to watching 3D nor have I seen it mentioned or discussed by any reviewers until now. This would be something I wouldn't assume everyday consumers to be aware of when they purchase a 3D capable T.V. or projector. Of course my last comment may be somewhat moot since there are now fewer 3D capable T.V.s on offer. Anyway, I feel the lack of this knowledge may be one small reason (outside of having to wear 3D glasses, which consumers don't seem to have a problem with at the theatre but don't want to do at home???) why 3D has never gained much traction and remains a small niche market -- at least with respect to home use, although it seems to be relatively popular at the theatre.
 
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