• New Patreon Tier and Early Access Content available. If you would like to support AVForums, we now have a new Patreon Tier which gives you access to selected news, reviews and articles before they are available to the public. Read more.

AVForums hoodwinking consumers

Status
Not open for further replies.

HaiderGill

Standard Member
Hi,

Icendiary title, but if you will Panasonic VT20 (TX-P50VT20) Review | AVForums.com - UK Online review doesn't mention the 50Hz issue or the false contouring http://www.avforums.com/forums/plas...ynamic-false-contouring-what-posterizing.html. The reviewer hasn't even had the decency to explain why he did not experience this issue. The chap is an absolute disgrace and has shown utter contempt for visitors to the site.

Probably felt it was more important to keep Panasonic happy with a good write-up.

Thanks
Haider
 

k17chy

Distinguished Member
Wow, that is a strong statement. Do you base all your purchases off the back of one review? I know when I purchased my latest set, I read a lot of reviews from different sources and most importantly I demod every set currently available, then made my choice.
 

willp2003

Established Member
That review is 3 years old! Reviewers will never pick up on all of the problems with a set in the limited time they have to review it.
 

rio1981

Prominent Member
That's quite a claim. Maybe he didn't mention it because he never saw it in the first place, much like 2012's VBI issue?

Don't let any of that get in the way of a good conspiracy, mind you.
 

woppy101

Distinguished Member
Hi,

Icendiary title, but if you will Panasonic VT20 (TX-P50VT20) Review | AVForums.com - UK Online review doesn't mention the 50Hz issue or the false contouring http://www.avforums.com/forums/plas...ynamic-false-contouring-what-posterizing.html. The reviewer hasn't even had the decency to explain why he did not experience this issue. The chap is an absolute disgrace and has shown utter contempt for visitors to the site.

Probably felt it was more important to keep Panasonic happy with a good write-up.

Thanks
Haider
It's your own fault for not demoing the tv sufficiently before you bought it(bit of a schoolboy error there like), then to come on here shouting because you bought a tv on one persons review is a bit cheeky, next you will be wanting a refund from Panasonic because the review on here didn't mention any of the problems:rotfl:
 

Siochain

Established Member
Steve Withers AVF Review of the 65VT20 tested and explained the 50hz issue, the first review to do so IIRC. 65VT20
Your thread title is nonsense.

I know when I purchased my latest set, I read a lot of reviews from different sources and most importantly I demod every set currently available, then made my choice.
I'm the same, it's common sense really.
 

Insanity202

Distinguished Member
Was picked up and mentioned in there 65" vt20 review in great detail and in later reports when Phil went to Japan he pointed it out to there tech team too.
 

AVF Jay

Banned
Hi,

Icendiary title, but if you will Panasonic VT20 (TX-P50VT20) Review | AVForums.com - UK Online review doesn't mention the 50Hz issue or the false contouring http://www.avforums.com/forums/plas...ynamic-false-contouring-what-posterizing.html. The reviewer hasn't even had the decency to explain why he did not experience this issue. The chap is an absolute disgrace and has shown utter contempt for visitors to the site.

Probably felt it was more important to keep Panasonic happy with a good write-up.

Thanks
Haider

They mention it on the 65VT20 so if it was important for Avforums to keep Panasonic happy they wouldn't have mentioned it.

The quote taken from this section

Flicker, Image Retention, Rising Black Levels and 50Hz Motion Artefacts of this review LINK

Finally, there has been a lot of debate on the forums regarding a problem with a video artefact where red, green and blue lines are apparent around certain moving objects, especially the centre line on football pitches during World Cup broadcasts. I also noticed this problem whilst watching the World Cup Final, as soon as the match started, and the camera panned across the pitch. Once you have noticed the problem it can be quite distracting, especially on a 65" display. The problem isn't restricted to World Cup broadcasts and I noticed it on all Freeview programming, whether it was standard or high definition. The problem also resulted in false contouring on areas that were the same such as peoples faces as they moved across the screen. However, I didn't notice this problem when watching 1080p24 Blu-rays or NTSC DVDs which made me curious. Plus this issue did not manifest itself in the review sample of the 50 inch VT20 that Phil covered a few months back


Either way I don't listen to what reviewers say as to be fair I believe there is some truth to what you say to a certain extent. Some reviewers do have different motives, the only person I take notice of is myself with my own eyes as I have different expectations and certain things that don't bother others or that they might not notice I do.

So if bob down the road or some "professional" reviewer says something I don't care as there are too many variables. It's the same with buzzing for example, some say buzzing is loud others say there is no buzzing.

The thing is some have better hearing, some have worse hearing, some sit further away, others closer, some have quieter enviroments etc so it's pointless going by what others say. I know for a fact every plasma buzzes on bright scenes, the only variable is some are louder than others. So when a random person on a forum says theirs doesn't buzz at all, they are talking rubbish.

If i'm honest if my girlfriend posted on a forum about the panasonic plasmas I've had she'd say the image was great and would say there was no banding, no buzzing and no funny artefacts on 50hz content. But she can't notice these things, it's certainly there.

Same applies to threads here when someone comments on their tv, whether it be a reviewer or someone on the forum, they only comment on what they see and two people looking at the same thing can often see two very different things.
 
Last edited:

Scooby2000

Distinguished Member
Just a few points to rebuff such an allegation on behalf of our review team.

1. They give their time freely and you are free to read them or not.

2. As our reviewers state very often 'you should demo a set for yourself and not rely on reviews' they are a guide to help you find the set you want.

3. As AVF is free to members, the reviews are free to all , AVF does not have the funds fir long term testing. Sets are sent for review by manufacturers and donated by AAs for a period of time.

4. AVF offers feedback to manufacturers via review and the members.
On many occasions AVForums has raised difficult issues with manufacturers and worked to try and help resolve them. The 50hz issue is a prime example where the issue has been discussed with Panasonic engineers. The fact they did not address the issue as people may like, that is Panasonic's decision.

5. Issues are raised in reviews, long term issues are raised year on year if not resolved.
New issues can only be raised if they're there in front if the reviewers. Many issues are not evident out the box or even days after. I myself had a GT30 I raved about til the green blobs were evident a couple of months after purchase.

6. Our reviewers are like members 'enthusiasts' this is why they give their time freely not only to review but also assist members On forum and give great feedback from shows.

7. What does AVForums gain from shows"hoodwinking" the consumer? These forums and the extended features around them were created to help and inform the consumer. It relies on readership to keep going so has nothing to gain from hoodwinking anybody. Id recommend you seek evidence before making such allegations as they infer many things you may or may not intend.

8. Though our reviews go into great detail giving clear test results for people to interpret as they wish, the body if any review is still the opinion(all be it very informed) of an individual and I and they would recommend you Demo sets for yourself.
I would also ask why you would even read the reviews if you felt they mislead in any way, let alone base a purchase in them.

Demo Demo Demo, reviews are a guide and nothing more, I understand some may get carried away with good reviews, but going from experience you should never buy on a review alone.
 

AVF Jay

Banned
Same thing will happen with the 60 series panasonics. Good reviews but then I'll bet my life on it that this forum will be full of the usual members moaning about "issues" and "faults".

Then there'll be 3 or 4 exchanges.....again with the same "issues"

Even a demo isn't the same thing as actually owning the tv and a short demo will not give enough time to spot issues that owners do after living with the tv for a short while.

Look at the tps meet, guys were given a thorough demonstration with issues pointed out, people then bought and still found issues they couldn't live with and got exchanges and refunds.

The only advice I'd give is buy from somewhere with a good returns policy.

The truth is the majority that post on here (myself included) are too picky and will find faults with any tv.
 
Last edited:

HaiderGill

Standard Member
It is an easy issue to observe. Simple case of just watching a Blu-Ray. The reviewers at AVForums are not just Joe Bloggs sitting in front of the TV with a cuppa. They know about AV. I can't believe he didn't observe this. This has been discussed to death in the VT20 threads all over the internet. It is no small issue that rears it head if you happen to be to doing a handstand at 12 o'clock, on the 12th day of the 12th month of the 12th year. The review procedure should have picked this issue up. If it (review procedure) cannot pick this issue up then it is not fit for purpose. The review procedure then needs to be audited. The chap should have the decency to say something about it, why the review didn't pick-up this issue, how the review mechanism is going to be altered so in future it does pickup big issues...
 

HaiderGill

Standard Member
It's your own fault for not demoing the tv sufficiently before you bought it(bit of a schoolboy error there like), then to come on here shouting because you bought a tv on one persons review is a bit cheeky, next you will be wanting a refund from Panasonic because the review on here didn't mention any of the problems:rotfl:

It is my error I didn't demo it sufficiently but it in no-way excuses the fact that this MAJOR failing of the reviewing methodology at AVForums.
 

HaiderGill

Standard Member
Just a few points to rebuff such an allegation on behalf of our review team.

1. They give their time freely and you are free to read them or not.

2. As our reviewers state very often 'you should demo a set for yourself and not rely on reviews' they are a guide to help you find the set you want.

3. As AVF is free to members, the reviews are free to all and the reviewers aren't paid, AVF does not have the funds fir long term testing. Sets are sent for review by manufacturers and donated by AAs for a period of time.

4. AVF offers feedback to manufacturers via review and the members.
On many occasions AVForums has raised difficult issues with manufacturers and worked to try and help resolve them. The 50hz issue is a prime example where the issue has been discussed with Panasonic engineers. The fact they did not address the issue as people may like, that is Panasonic's decision.

5. Issues are raised in reviews, long term issues are raised year on year if not resolved.
New issues can only be raised if they're there in front if the reviewers. Many issues are not evident out the box or even days after. I myself had a GT30 I raved about til the green blobs were evident a couple of months after purchase.

6. Our reviewers are like members 'enthusiasts' this is why they give their time freely not only to review but also assist members On forum and give great feedback from shows.

7. What does AVForums gain from shows"hoodwinking" the consumer? These forums and the extended features around them were created to help and inform the consumer. It relies on readership to keep going so has nothing to gain from hoodwinking anybody. Id recommend you seek evidence before making such allegations as they infer many things you may or may not intend.

8. Though our reviews go into great detail giving clear test results for people to interpret as they wish, the body if any review is still the opinion(all be it very informed) of an individual and I and they would recommend you Demo sets for yourself.
I would also ask why you would even read the reviews if you felt they mislead in any way, let alone base a purchase in them.

Demo Demo Demo, reviews are a guide and nothing more, I understand some may get carried away with good reviews, but going from experience you should never buy on a review alone.


Thank you at least for coming back. Whilst I have learnt a lesson here we do take reviewers as having better knowledge than us. For example colour calibration. First time I saw a calibrated setup I thought it was better when it was uncalibrated as the pop of picture is what we are used. Only over time I have I adjusted to that. It is like I explain to my friends if the only thing you've drank is sugary soft drinks everything else will taste bland but if you stop for a while your tastebuds will normalise and you will discover a world of subtles of flavour and taste.

Thanks
Haider
 

Malcolm 011

Established Member
Same thing will happen with the 60 series panasonics. Good reviews but then I'll bet my life on it that this forum will be full of the usual members moaning about "issues" and "faults".

Then there'll be 3 or 4 exchanges.....again with the same "issues"

Even a demo isn't the same thing as actually owning the tv and a short demo will not give enough time to spot issues that owners do after living with the tv for a short while.

Look at the tps meet, guys were given a thorough demonstration with issues pointed out, people then bought and still found issues they couldn't live with and got exchanges and refunds.

The only advice I'd give is buy from somewhere with a good returns policy.

The truth is the majority that post on here (myself included) are too picky and will find faults with any tv.

the thing about the ST60 is yes it'll have faults..... these faults are already mentioned in that 42'' ST60 review and have been mentioned in France, on French forums, it has the same faults as the existing tv

and it is bound to isn't it, because it's the same tech as last year...only the ZT and maybe the VT is any different.

i'm sorry, but members need to read the reviews much more closely, because it'll only be hinted at.... now that hint is enough to tell you that the tv is the same as last year or maybe slightly better.
 

Scooby2000

Distinguished Member
If an issue isn't there it can't be reported surely, sorry J can understand what you are saying but this has been discussed in the past. A reviewer can only test what's in front of them. Also AVF does not do long term testing that may be required, perhaps you would like to donate some money per month for your membership?.

I agree with another post regarding demos, they aren't a guarantee of a faultless set, they do enable you to look for any known issues effecting a model though. Buying from a good retailer is as important if not more so than having a demo, agree 100% from my own experience.

The thing people also need to remember when reading posts is that no set is or ever will be perfect, nothing near even. These are consumer sets built to a price level people will pay. Most members complaining(not all) will be complaining about traits of plasma and or make and model specific issues. All sets are different as are peoples eyes, what bothers one won't bother another. Quite often a reviewer may just refer to plasma traits or LCD traits and not go into great detail as most people won't know what they are, see them or be bothered by them.

If you feel the reviews aren't good enough that's quite a jump from hoodwinking the public, that implies intent. If you feel AVF reviews aren't of a high enough standard maybe make some suggestions to the team, offer feedback, Im sure if you have any idea that's affordable and would assist the process they guys would look into it. As it is reviews are a guide they aren't a fault finding mission, fault finding is a long term process and fare ti time consuming for a small team publishing several reviews a week.
 

Scooby2000

Distinguished Member
Thank you at least for coming back. Whilst I have learnt a lesson here we do take reviewers as having better knowledge than us. For example colour calibration. First time I saw a calibrated setup I thought it was better when it was uncalibrated as the pop of picture is what we are used. Only over time I have I adjusted to that. It is like I explain to my friends if the only thing you've drank is sugary soft drinks everything else will taste bland but if you stop for a while your tastebuds will normalise and you will discover a world of subtles of flavour and taste.

Thanks
Haider

Yes we are lucky and have very well informed reviewers and whilst they have access to quite expensive kit for the reviews they simply don't have the time to fault find. If there is a known issue it will be looked into during and even after review if possible.
New issues though may not appear in the short time we have the sets, often the guys will spend as much time as they can with a set, but as they're donated, there are time restrictions. Also US members are an impatient lot wanting reviews yesterday, forgetting the time it takes to right one up, let alone do the testing.:)
 

Phil Hinton

Editor
Staff member
The VT20 review was written by me. It was the first sample available in the country and as such was an exclusive review. Now as a reviewer and the Editor of this site I have a few things to weigh up. I'll come back to the VT20 in a second.

First of all we are enthusiasts at the end of the day. We have no affiliation with any manufacturers and it makes no difference to us whether we keep a manufacturer happy. However, we are more than happy to help manufacturers get the best out of their products and will work with them when they ask. I tell them this directly and they respect the fact that what we report in the reviews are what we see and that we are honest in our approach to the reviews. We have had manufacturers decline to send us TVs for review, such as Philips and at one point Samsung because they didn't understand the review process and perhaps they didn't like the fact they had no control over the review process. For whatever reason it has taken a long time for them to come around to our way of doing things and to send us review samples. On top of that we can also use retailers to get review samples, so if we annoy a manufacturer with our honest reviews, we can still source samples of the product for review so you forum members don't miss out. The other plus point of using retailers is that we can check that the review samples from Manufacturers are the same as those available to members in retail shops. We have yet to find any 'golden samples' and can safely and expertly say this is myth.
Over the years we have given presentations to manufacturers on calibration controls and their usefulness directly to their engineers and product managers and have had some success with that. Just look at some of the TVs and their calibration controls today, compared with just 4 years ago.
We can't produce the same quantity of reviews that publications and websites with multi-million pound publishing companies can produce, but again at the same time we also don't employ freelancers or journalists looking for their next pay cheque. I recruit enthusiasts who also have considerable knowledge of image science and they must pass the ISF and THX process and stay relevant with new technologies. I also work very hard to make sure that we stay independent and that our integrity is upheld and that we work for AVForums members and not anyone else. We want to see good quality equipment just like the members here and we are just as enthusiastic about AV tech than everybody else.

You'll have to forgive the long reply, but when people question our integrity I will defend that and explain why things are as they are.

Now, back to the VT20. Yes, in the initial review we didn't quite pick up on the 50Hz fully straight away. We could see something was there but had put it down to the drive of the panel and a trait of the technology. Because of this we didn't give the VT20 a reference status award. We also only had the sample for 6 days or so and as I said above we have to try and get all the testing done, along with viewing time to check everything out and also keep everyone happy here by posting the review as quickly as possible. We can only review what is in front of us at the time and we have a sample of 1 unit. We can't test lots of the same model at one time, so getting a full handle on an issue is difficult. If we find something serious in one example we will try and get a second unit to test, or ask owners to check stuff for us on their models. But again, this is a difficulty of reviewing a new model and trying to keep the readership happy with a quick turnaround.
For the 50Hz issue, some respected reviewers actually denied there was an issue and awarded the TV a reference status, so calling our review and saying we were hoodwinking the members is a bit silly. We listened to what owners had found, I went and visited some owners to see their TVs and we also got a second sample from Panasonic, the 65inch and Steve tested it fully. If you look at the review of the 65 inch you will see our results. Not long after that review I was invited to Japan where I met with the engineers and pointed out our findings to them. The original review also had a disclaimer at the bottom to point out what we had found. Again, we have a sample number of two, not hundreds of sets to test. To say we didn't do anything to bring awareness to the issue is again not true.

We have three TVs in for review at the moment that I know will be jumped on by members straight away as they are some of the most anticipated sets of the year, but we have kept it quiet so we have the time to test them fully without pressure to publish the reviews from members desperate to know what they are like.

We can only review what is in front of us. When we find things or get feedback from owners, we feed that back and try and test further to help out where we can. If that is not good enough for some members, then sorry but that's all we can do. Every review is done for the benefit of members here, not anyone else and certainly not manufacturers. We also try to cover everything about the TVs in question and not just the picture quality in isolation or just with test patterns. We also always say that reviews are for information and a guide only. Ultimately it is down to users to make their decisions on the best information they can get and hopefully part of that is honest feedback from our reviews and not misinformation from salesmen dressed up as helpful members.

The other 'issue' we find is that a small problem seen in a review can be misinterpreted and then snow ball into something that doesn't exist. Just look at things like lag time to see how things can quickly get out of hand in a forum environment. We try to be as accurate as possible in what we report back and also try to be complete in mentioning everything we can that may be an issue for certain members. It is a hard balancing act to follow, but I think we do it well.

We are also open to feedback, so thanks for taking the time to start this thread. You don't have to go for the Daily Mail headline for a title though.
 

Nick74

Distinguished Member
The VT20 review was written by me. It was the first sample available in the country and as such was an exclusive review. Now as a reviewer and the Editor of this site I have a few things to weigh up. I'll come back to the VT20 in a second.

First of all we are enthusiasts at the end of the day. We have no affiliation with any manufacturers and it makes no difference to us whether we keep a manufacturer happy. However, we are more than happy to help manufacturers get the best out of their products and will work with them when they ask. I tell them this directly and they respect the fact that what we report in the reviews are what we see and that we are honest in our approach to the reviews. We have had manufacturers decline to send us TVs for review, such as Philips and at one point Samsung because they didn't understand the review process and perhaps they didn't like the fact they had no control over the review process. For whatever reason it has taken a long time for them to come around to our way of doing things and to send us review samples. On top of that we can also use retailers to get review samples, so if we annoy a manufacturer with our honest reviews, we can still source samples of the product for review so you forum members don't miss out. The other plus point of using retailers is that we can check that the review samples from Manufacturers are the same as those available to members in retail shops. We have yet to find any 'golden samples' and can safely and expertly say this is myth.
Over the years we have given presentations to manufacturers on calibration controls and their usefulness directly to their engineers and product managers and have had some success with that. Just look at some of the TVs and their calibration controls today, compared with just 4 years ago.
We can't produce the same quantity of reviews that publications and websites with multi-million pound publishing companies can produce, but again at the same time we also don't employ freelancers or journalists looking for their next pay cheque. I recruit enthusiasts who also have considerable knowledge of image science and they must pass the ISF and THX process and stay relevant with new technologies. I also work very hard to make sure that we stay independent and that our integrity is upheld and that we work for AVForums members and not anyone else. We want to see good quality equipment just like the members here and we are just as enthusiastic about AV tech than everybody else.

You'll have to forgive the long reply, but when people question our integrity I will defend that and explain why things are as they are.

Now, back to the VT20. Yes, in the initial review we didn't quite pick up on the 50Hz fully straight away. We could see something was there but had put it down to the drive of the panel and a trait of the technology. Because of this we didn't give the VT20 a reference status award. We also only had the sample for 6 days or so and as I said above we have to try and get all the testing done, along with viewing time to check everything out and also keep everyone happy here by posting the review as quickly as possible. We can only review what is in front of us at the time and we have a sample of 1 unit. We can't test lots of the same model at one time, so getting a full handle on an issue is difficult. If we find something serious in one example we will try and get a second unit to test, or ask owners to check stuff for us on their models. But again, this is a difficulty of reviewing a new model and trying to keep the readership happy with a quick turnaround.
For the 50Hz issue, some respected reviewers actually denied there was an issue and awarded the TV a reference status, so calling our review and saying we were hoodwinking the members is a bit silly. We listened to what owners had found, I went and visited some owners to see their TVs and we also got a second sample from Panasonic, the 65inch and Steve tested it fully. If you look at the review of the 65 inch you will see our results. Not long after that review I was invited to Japan where I met with the engineers and pointed out our findings to them. The original review also had a disclaimer at the bottom to point out what we had found. Again, we have a sample number of two, not hundreds of sets to test. To say we didn't do anything to bring awareness to the issue is again not true.

We have three TVs in for review at the moment that I know will be jumped on by members straight away as they are some of the most anticipated sets of the year, but we have kept it quiet so we have the time to test them fully without pressure to publish the reviews from members desperate to know what they are like.

We can only review what is in front of us. When we find things or get feedback from owners, we feed that back and try and test further to help out where we can. If that is not good enough for some members, then sorry but that's all we can do. Every review is done for the benefit of members here, not anyone else and certainly not manufacturers. We also try to cover everything about the TVs in question and not just the picture quality in isolation or just with test patterns. We also always say that reviews are for information and a guide only. Ultimately it is down to users to make their decisions on the best information they can get and hopefully part of that is honest feedback from our reviews and not misinformation from salesmen dressed up as helpful members.

The other 'issue' we find is that a small problem seen in a review can be misinterpreted and then snow ball into something that doesn't exist. Just look at things like lag time to see how things can quickly get out of hand in a forum environment. We try to be as accurate as possible in what we report back and also try to be complete in mentioning everything we can that may be an issue for certain members. It is a hard balancing act to follow, but I think we do it well.

We are also open to feedback, so thanks for taking the time to start this thread. You don't have to go for the Daily Mail headline for a title though.

Dear Phil,

Thanks vey much for this response.

Is there any way I could contact you about the process of feedback to manufacturers from this website?

I'm a researcher, writing a monograph on this very subject (specifically 2010 series TVs). I appreciate that you're extremely busy, especially at this time of year, though I'm not looking to take up much of your time at all. I only need a few quotes and you would be helping me out immeasurably (this has become a real sticking point). I'm happy to provide more information if needed.

Apologies for writing this on-forum. Unfortunately I don't have an alternative method of contact.

Many thanks and best wishes.
 

HaiderGill

Standard Member
Thank you Phil for putting us in the picture. I apologise but my anger got the better of me. A good clip for seeing false contours is in the blu-ray Argo. When the actor Ben Affelck goes to the Canadian ambassadors. Camera is close up on the face of the character speaking and pans around to the next character as they start speaking. You see the red green fringes appearing. As the scene was quite long and it was panning from face to face it wasn't something that lasted a couple of seconds. I paid £1700 at Currys. You never had issues like this on Sony DVP-NS905 player and 100Hz Sony FD Trinitron Wega KV-32FS60 CRT hooked up with QED SQART cable...I suppose it comes down to quantity over quality.
 

mallet

Established Member
The job the reviewers (and most posters) do on here is invaluable, and to post such unfounded nonsense three years after a set comes out is bizarre.
 

DaMacFunkin

Established Member
I read EVERY review I could find in every magazine and every search engine I could find before I bought my 50VT50, I went to tps and demoed them, i sat in two other shops messing with them, I never, ever saw one set with vbi during football, or heard it mentioned during virtually all the ecstatic reviews, now if the reviewers are all blessed with amazing integrity then we have to say that Panasonic are hand picking the review sets... This is wrong, it's deceitful and it's fraud, as for display models retailers must be in the loop, find one with no probs, you'll sell loads, display one with problems you won't sell any. Year on year Panasonic know what the problems are, they just hope enough don't come back to make it worth their while.
 

panman40

Distinguished Member
Hoodwinked ? Lol. I don't think you can expect any reviewer to come across the issues an enthusiast owner may find with a TV in the home for a month or more. Reviews are a good read and give some idea of what the set is like presuming the said set is not 'hand picked by the manufacturer of course'. The only way to be sure even after a demo is when you have it in your own home for while.
 

Scooby2000

Distinguished Member
I read EVERY review I could find in every magazine and every search engine I could find before I bought my 50VT50, I went to tps and demoed them, i sat in two other shops messing with them, I never, ever saw one set with vbi during football, or heard it mentioned during virtually all the ecstatic reviews, now if the reviewers are all blessed with amazing integrity then we have to say that Panasonic are hand picking the review sets... This is wrong, it's deceitful and it's fraud, as for display models retailers must be in the loop, find one with no probs, you'll sell loads, display one with problems you won't sell any. Year on year Panasonic know what the problems are, they just hope enough don't come back to make it worth their while.

VBI varies greatly, at the last TPS meet I noticed it immediately on one set, looked for it on another and facto have it pointed out to me on the third.
Varies set to set and is effected by content and setup. Chances are it was missed if there at all, many members are posting an improvement over time too.
 

Lin3ar

Distinguished Member
VBI varies greatly, at the last TPS meet I noticed it immediately on one set, looked for it on another and facto have it pointed out to me on the third.
Varies set to set and is effected by content and setup. Chances are it was missed if there at all, many members are posting an improvement over time too.

VBI has without doubt improved massively on my GT50. At first it was plainly visible even out the corner of my eye when watching football. Now, even if i focus on that particular part of the screen they are very hard to spot.
 

Member 452016

Established Member
DaMacFunkin said:
I read EVERY review I could find in every magazine and every search engine I could find before I bought my 50VT50, I went to tps and demoed them, i sat in two other shops messing with them, I never, ever saw one set with vbi during football, or heard it mentioned during virtually all the ecstatic reviews, now if the reviewers are all blessed with amazing integrity then we have to say that Panasonic are hand picking the review sets... This is wrong, it's deceitful and it's fraud, as for display models retailers must be in the loop, find one with no probs, you'll sell loads, display one with problems you won't sell any. Year on year Panasonic know what the problems are, they just hope enough don't come back to make it worth their while.

We've never tried to hide it from anyone, there are many members who have been to the store specifically for us to point it out to them.

We're certainly not part of any "loop"

Regards

TPS
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

The latest video from AVForums

Is 8K TV dead? Philips OLED+907, Pioneer LX505 AVR plus B&W 700 S3 Reviews & Visit + AV/HiFi News
Subscribe to our YouTube channel
Support AVForums with Patreon

Top Bottom