AVF Movies Podcast: Black Widow – MCU Phase 4: Do we still care? (14/07/21)

Phil Hinton

Editor
Staff member
This month we watch the new MCU entry, Black Widow and discuss how we're feeling about the continued dominance of comics at the box office. We also find out your opinions on the best and worst superhero movies. PLUS a podcast exclusive competition.

Presented by Tom Davies with Cas Harlow and Simon Crust.

00:00:00 - Start
00:00:26 - Welcome
00:01:47 - Competitions. Lots. Check them out.
00:04:11 - Black Widow deep dive review
00:26:57 - Marvel cinematic universe MCU phase 4 - do we still care?
01:00:00 - Patreon poll - which is the best MCU phase?
01:01:42 - Podcast competition

These links will be live following the live stream on Wednesday

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Last edited:

BMox81

Distinguished Member
Was an interesting watch.

I do concede that needing to watch the D+ shows now on top of the films might be a tall order for some-was easier to watch 2/3 films a year as opposed to 3 films and 3 shows, but then Cas rightly said that people can choose to watch what they want and if they are curious about certain things then they can dip in as and where they see fit to get the info they need.

I’m personally very much looking forward to the rest of Phase 4, especially after the Loki finale and I expect once Phase 4 gets going fully with the next 3 films, things will get back on track.

Thanks again guys.
 

Noahdavid1984

Well-known Member
It’s overkill for me. There’s way too many films to keep track of and then the countless tv shows and it makes the product far too diluted not to mention all of the movies are made as a sequel as opposed to a decent stand alone film.
while I prefer the darker tone DC takes they’ve not done themselves any favours.
I’d like a proper comic strip adaption that’s faithful to the comics. Just my opinion anyway.
 

1080 jawbreaker

Well-known Member
hope i dont have to watch the tv series in order to keep up with the movies as i have zero interest in watching loki or that falcon junk.
 

Evinger

Distinguished Member
Thanks for a fun Podcast Guys.

And thanks for the kind wishes in the Live Chat. We had AstraZeneca as the first jab & an mRNA (Moderna in our case) as the second, which here in Germany is recommended as the most effective mix. It's also supposed to be the most brutal mix on the system, and they weren't lying in our case! :)

I could not choose my favourite Marvel Movie, as I have several favourites. And I wasn't bothered about MCU Phase 4 (As Endgame also really completed the journey for me), but I watched the Marvel trailer for it, and a little more tingled now. Dr. Strange & Thor for definite.
 

Wedlock

Member
I enjoyed all the shows and i think they make a nice edition to the MCU.
Also liked Black Widow quite a bit.....was it one of the best Marvel films ? No but still very watchable.
We got Shang-Chi and Eternals next and in the same month there will be a new series launching called Ms. Marvel and December will have Spider-Man : No Way Home and the Hawkeye series (as it looks now).
I am watching them all since my interest has not faded one bit !

Maybe interesting watch for people, on Youtube the Rotten Tomatoes channel has two video's with Kevin Feige going into Phase 4 and telling about the ideas behind the movies and series.....fun watch i think for fans of Marvel :)

Kevin Feige on MCU's Phase 4
 

steviedr

Distinguished Member
Thanks for the podcast guys, great timing as I've just finished the MCU films.

Its taken me since Disney + launch to catch up. Originally after 4-5 films I thought it was too late to catch up, as the years went on, I thought it was never going to happen, but D+ helped me out although it still took 15 months :) Why so long, well, out of the 20 odd films, I'd say Winter Soldier/Infinity War/End Game provided most enjoyment, Guardians, Dr Strange, Thor, I'd class mid tier, and the rest, well below average to poor. The filler along the way put me off coming back but I'm glad I did. The final films did pay off, and Loki from what I've seen so far is excellent.

From what I heard on the Pod, Falcon & the winter soldier can be skipped, so will tune into Wandavision once I'm finished with Loki
 

Jessica Noir

Well-known Member
While I'm looking forward to Sam Raimi's Doctor Strange sequel, for me Marvel's time in sun is fading. Maybe it's me getting older, maybe it's just the inevitable product after product, but I'm way more excited looking at the films getting shown at Cannes than anything on the Marvel slate.

Paul Verhoeven doing a film about a medieval lesbian nun dealing with demonic visions sounds way better than The Eternals.
 

Gutcheck

Novice Member
For me I enjoy all of Marvels movies these are the products of the comics I grew up with and I’m
happy for each one of the new movies that comes out .
thank you
👋🏻👋🏻👋🏻👋🏻👋🏻😎
 

Hixs

Distinguished Member
I wouldn't go out of my way to watch any more Marvel stuff. If it hits Netflix/Amazon then I'd give it a go (eventually).
 

Casimir Harlow

Blu-ray Reviewer
I wouldn't go out of my way to watch any more Marvel stuff. If it hits Netflix/Amazon then I'd give it a go (eventually).

You might be in for a long wait then. Didn't that ship sail a while back? The ship was called Plus, and the Captain was Disney.
 

GT One

Active Member
For those looking for diversity in entertainment the fresh concepts in film making are definitely missing, in most cases sci-fi fans will generally know what to expect before they even watch the movie. The reason for this is very much to do with Marvel, Disney (and others) providing sufficient massed produced commercial content to meet the demand, both on the screen and in the shops and stores selling their franchise produce.
Hopefully, when the new Avatar film series finally sees the light of day some new concepts in film making will excite viewers much the same as Star Wars did all those decades ago, the underwater themes are creating quite a few technical innovation issues for James Cameron and Weta Studios, the first movie will have a budget of $250 million, so the series will need to do well at the box office not just in SVOD sales.
I would think that the performance of Avatar may influence how the other studios will look at spending money on entertainment in the future, maybe these massive budgets will need to be cut back.
I have read that some more far sighted movie producers are looking to encourage new writers and directors who have a background making short films to develop some original concepts that may be made into a full length feature film, I note that there are numbers of You Tube contributors who do much the same thing and make excellent sci-fi shorts with amazing home made CGI.
Perhaps the studios need some new blood instead of relying on the old movie and TV establishment to fill quotas, I believe that film makers are becoming too intent on preserving high profile careers than actually providing some consistency when making entertainment. Like technology movie watching trends move along and each generation needs its own Spielberg or George Lucas as inspiration for film making into the future.
 

Evinger

Distinguished Member
I have read that some more far sighted movie producers are looking to encourage new writers and directors who have a background making short films to develop some original concepts that may be made into a full length feature film, I note that there are numbers of You Tube contributors who do much the same thing and make excellent sci-fi shorts with amazing home made CGI.
Perhaps the studios need some new blood instead of relying on the old movie and TV establishment to fill quotas, I believe that film makers are becoming too intent on preserving high profile careers than actually providing some consistency when making entertainment. Like technology movie watching trends move along and each generation needs its own Spielberg or George Lucas as inspiration for film making into the future.
Agreed. THX 1138 was so different for the time, & gave us George Lucas (The Good Years). Adverts gave us Ridley Scott. The new frontier for innovative thinking is definitely the Internet.
 

THX1138UK

Well-known Member
My take on Marvel and 'Star Wars' is a bit different to the Podcast team. I enjoy the movies, and have enjoyed some of the new TV spin off shows (Wonder Vision has been the absolute stand-out show for me - loved the sitcoms though the ages - I wished they just kept doing that!).

I've never had the slightest interest in comics or any expanded universe novels or anything like that. Personally, I think its a niche of a very small niche who care about that stuff, be it 'Star Wars' or Marvel.

I think I've seen all the Marvel movies, some are better and more memorable than others, but I have no clue about the difference phases that keep getting mentioned.

I was a proper 'Star Wars' film fan back in the day, had all the toys, action figures etc., but I never watched any of the spin off TV cartoons (Droids / Ewoks) or read any novels other than the film adaptations.

As a child, I only knew about Bat-Man (from the 60s TV show), Spider-Man (from the Cartoon & movie), The Incredible Hulk (from the 70s TV show) and Superman from the movies. I'd never heard of Iron Man or any of the other Marvel or DC super heroes until the recent movies.

Honestly, the only comics I remember were The Beano (never read it) and 2000AD for some reason (I guess it was on the shelf at the News Agents). I did read the all new Dan Dare for a little while - as my dad used to read the original.

I always associated super hero comics with America. Were they big in the UK, or is that I recent thing? I don't remember anyone reading comics when I was at school in the 70s and 80s.

I am a bit fed up with the whole massive CGI battle with the bad guy (or bad guy's army) at the end of just about every movie... Increasingly, I'm finding the final battle is the least interesting part of the movies (with the odd exception).

Anyway, thought I would share a different perspective.

Regards,
James.
 

GT One

Active Member
My take on Marvel and 'Star Wars' is a bit different to the Podcast team. I enjoy the movies, and have enjoyed some of the new TV spin off shows (Wonder Vision has been the absolute stand-out show for me - loved the sitcoms though the ages - I wished they just kept doing that!).

I've never had the slightest interest in comics or any expanded universe novels or anything like that. Personally, I think its a niche of a very small niche who care about that stuff, be it 'Star Wars' or Marvel.

I think I've seen all the Marvel movies, some are better and more memorable than others, but I have no clue about the difference phases that keep getting mentioned.

I was a proper 'Star Wars' film fan back in the day, had all the toys, action figures etc., but I never watched any of the spin off TV cartoons (Droids / Ewoks) or read any novels other than the film adaptations.

As a child, I only knew about Bat-Man (from the 60s TV show), Spider-Man (from the Cartoon & movie), The Incredible Hulk (from the 70s TV show) and Superman from the movies. I'd never heard of Iron Man or any of the other Marvel or DC super heroes until the recent movies.

Honestly, the only comics I remember were The Beano (never read it) and 2000AD for some reason (I guess it was on the shelf at the News Agents). I did read the all new Dan Dare for a little while - as my dad used to read the original.

I always associated super hero comics with America. Were they big in the UK, or is that I recent thing? I don't remember anyone reading comics when I was at school in the 70s and 80s.

I am a bit fed up with the whole massive CGI battle with the bad guy (or bad guy's army) at the end of just about every movie... Increasingly, I'm finding the final battle is the least interesting part of the movies (with the odd exception).

Anyway, thought I would share a different perspective.

Regards,
James.
Interesting comment. Most older sci-fi fans I know have read quite a few comics in their youth and probably sometime after that as well, they probably would also have liked retro shows like Lost in Space and Land of the Giants and Time Tunnel, Erwin Allen would have been up the top of the list for must see TV shows and occasional movies, it's also likely for those old enough to remember that apart from Dr. Who with its terrible paper mache sets, the soap suds and rubber-latex octopus tentacles, Jerry Anderson shows were a must see every weekend, just to see the model explosions, as was Batman with Adam West and Burt Ward. I recently watched a few episodes of this 60's Batman show and I doubt they would be allowed to make this series nowadays.
It's worth noting that the 1966 Batman movie cost $1.5 million (about 12 million in today's money.
The revelation about Star Wars when it was first released in 1977 was that it captured a whole generation by the spectacle it presented from the opening scene, especially the sound, and also the spacecraft designs, everything was thought out to the last detail even though the story itself borrowed much of the action from just about every B Grade American war film genre then released.
It's doubtful that those with prosaic interests would have found much going for Star Wars, but sci-fi is not produced for them, these films are made for the boy and girl in all of us.
 

Evinger

Distinguished Member
My take on Marvel and 'Star Wars' is a bit different to the Podcast team. I enjoy the movies, and have enjoyed some of the new TV spin off shows (Wonder Vision has been the absolute stand-out show for me - loved the sitcoms though the ages - I wished they just kept doing that!).

I've never had the slightest interest in comics or any expanded universe novels or anything like that. Personally, I think its a niche of a very small niche who care about that stuff, be it 'Star Wars' or Marvel.

I think I've seen all the Marvel movies, some are better and more memorable than others, but I have no clue about the difference phases that keep getting mentioned.

I was a proper 'Star Wars' film fan back in the day, had all the toys, action figures etc., but I never watched any of the spin off TV cartoons (Droids / Ewoks) or read any novels other than the film adaptations.

As a child, I only knew about Bat-Man (from the 60s TV show), Spider-Man (from the Cartoon & movie), The Incredible Hulk (from the 70s TV show) and Superman from the movies. I'd never heard of Iron Man or any of the other Marvel or DC super heroes until the recent movies.

Honestly, the only comics I remember were The Beano (never read it) and 2000AD for some reason (I guess it was on the shelf at the News Agents). I did read the all new Dan Dare for a little while - as my dad used to read the original.

I always associated super hero comics with America. Were they big in the UK, or is that I recent thing? I don't remember anyone reading comics when I was at school in the 70s and 80s.

I am a bit fed up with the whole massive CGI battle with the bad guy (or bad guy's army) at the end of just about every movie... Increasingly, I'm finding the final battle is the least interesting part of the movies (with the odd exception).

Anyway, thought I would share a different perspective.

Regards,
James.
I can empathise with your take on the the "***verse" approach that now seems prevalent. I was a bit more into comics growing up, as there was a second hand shop in Derby Marketplace that had all the Marvel & DC Comics for very cheap (Still a US Military prescence nearby in those days, I guess), plus later on I loved 2000AD.
But now I'm not into comics or cartoons. Still love Movies & a few TV shows, & Hard Sci Fi (But not usually the book spin-offs from series), but as the understanding of the plots & characters of some franchises seems to require more & more that you do watch the cartoons, read the novels, etc. that definitely puts me off; I like to see a Movie that can stand on its own, or if part of a series of Movies, everything is apparent within that series.
Ach! Guess I'm getting old! ;)
 

MrMrH

Active Member
In my younger years back in NZ I read plenty of comics, from Asterix to Transformers to 2000AD with the odd DC one thrown in for good measure during my school days. Then onto Marvel when I was in Uni, I was actually one of the few who counted Iron Man as my favourite hero and would read them all for years and was super excited when the first movie was announced.

But speaking of add toy combos my wife bought my son a superhero costume pack, it contained "Superman", Batman", "Flash" and ........... "Captain America". My delicate sensibilities struggle with that but even more so with the costume containing a simple Eye/Face Mask, some sort of wrist bracelet thing and a cape, something out of character for both Captain America and the Flash, I keep complaining about it to my wife and her (entirely valid) defense is quite simply "It was VERY cheap".
 

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