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Aventos RGB quality

Discussion in 'Televisions' started by harmunt, Nov 12, 2003.

  1. harmunt

    harmunt
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    Had this set for a few days now and I am not at all comfortable with the RGB picture quality.

    Maybe it's 20 years of owning 50Hz sets but comparing the two is laughable. The quality is nowhere near as good. The main issue is with the colours slightly smearing around the edges (this is especially noticeable on red images). Is this adjustable via the service menu or is it a 100Hz thing?

    Also, I was under the impression that you could not adjust the colour values on ‘true’ RGB yet you can with the Aventos.

    Equipment being used under RGB - Xbox, Gamecube (both using official cables), DVD & Sky Digital.
     
  2. harmunt

    harmunt
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    Forgive me for bumping this post but it really is concerning me.
    C'mon Aventos owners! Help me out! Please?

    :(
     
  3. Buckster

    Buckster
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    I don't have an Aventos - but do have a Vitros so will try and help.

    Is the TV definately set to RGB ? Its just on my Vitros - if I have the DVD player on AV-3 Scart (as recommended) with it set to AUTO - it won't autodetect RGB and will default to Composite. You have to set it manually to RGB.

    If not the above - I do get some "red" bleed if the colour setting is too high - I have mine set at around 27-28.

    What contrast setting are you using ?

    Mark.
     
  4. harmunt

    harmunt
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    My settings are as follows -

    Contrast - 31
    Colour - 35

    All devices are DEFINATELY in RGB.

    The colour bleed isn't atrocious (I've seen FAR worse on a Panasonic PD30) but after my pin-sharp 9 year old JVC set, I'm slightly miffed.
     
  5. bonzobanana

    bonzobanana
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    It probably doesn't have true RGB. Many Toshiba's and Loewe sets simply downgrade RGB to s-video and then its processed in the main tuner/av circuitry before finally being processed back to RGB at the end. Theres many i.c.s designed mainly with the usa/japan in mind that are PAL compatible but are best given an exclusive path to the guns of the tube. In this way component, s-video and tuner pictures will be of the highest quality. However RGB being a european standard they just bodge it with a simple RGB to s-video conversion. In theory they could convert RGB to component but I think the i.c.s in question only have one component input but multiple s-video inputs. So to allow both component and RGB inputs on a set they convert RGB to s-video.

    I'm sure if you search for Loewe and Toshiba sets on the web you'll find reference to this. As you've already pointed if you can adjust colour levels on rgb its not true rgb as its being processed in the main tuner/av circuitry. I have a Sharp 28" widescreen and its fitted with the crappiest of tuners, near hopeless in fact but give it an RGB signal and the picture can be breathtaking. I watched Shrek on it and was gobsmacked by the vivid RGB display . Tons of detail and contrast. Definitely what I'll be putting on the screen when I sell the set.
     
  6. harmunt

    harmunt
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    :( ****!

    Well, I phoned my local Seven Oaks and I was given a number for Loewe's customer services to phone on Monday. Hopefully they'll offer a solution but if not...

    Bye, bye Loewe.

    So much for all the hype they receive on this forum. Very disappointing.
     
  7. Buckster

    Buckster
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    I think this was discussed ages back - pretty sure the 2400 and 2500 Chassis Loewes do not convert RGB into S-Video internally - that was just on the older models.

    Certainly on my Loewe - RGB is much better than S-Video and better in fact than Component in.

    Are you sure the colour setting isn't too high ?

    Mark.
     
  8. harmunt

    harmunt
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    The colour is currently on 30 and the RGB image looks almost washed out. Nowhere near as colourful as my old JVC RGB picture. The simple fact that you can adjust the colour values in its 'RGB' mode verifies that Loewe have cut corners in this area.
     
  9. lewden

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    How are you connecting all your equipment? If its through a scart box this may be the problem. My Aventos RGB is very good quality, its not pumped straight into the tubes - but a lot of 100Hz TV's aren't, but I'm more than happy.

    Your contrast settings look quite low and colour looks quite high, but all TVs are different so this may be OK anyway.

    Is all your equipment giving the same sort of RGB picture?
     
  10. harmunt

    harmunt
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    1. My DVD, Gamecube & Xbox do run through a scart box but I have also fed them each directly through the set with the same disappointing result.

    2. What do you mean when you say "its not pumped straight into the tubes"?

    3. OOI what are your settings regarding colour and contrast?

    4. Yes, all of my equipment looks poor compared to my old JVC.
     
  11. lewden

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    'Not pumped straight into the tube' is my crude way of saying its not true RGB. It goes through some processing before it hits the screen, thus you can change the colour content.

    RGB to my TV looks pretty special in my eyes. Colours are very good, so either you have a problem TV, or you're not setting it up right or it could be something to do with the leads (which you've checked out already).

    My settings are as follows:

    Contrast 39
    Colour 31
    Brightness 26
    Sharpness 1 or 2

    Why not try resetting all your settings to default (turn the sharpness down to at least 2 though) and make sure when you connect each bit of kit you go through the connections wizard before turning it on. Then compare s-video to RGB through the same scart (using your DVD) and if its still bad ask for a replacement TV.

    Rest assured that IMO these TVs do give very good quality pictures - of course you may have a bad TV, which is possible with all makes. It would be the first bad Aventos that I've heard about.

    Hope you get it sorted.
     
  12. harmunt

    harmunt
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    Maybe it's just that I am so used to a 50Hz true RGB signal...

    :(
     
  13. harmunt

    harmunt
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    It gets worse...

    Just popped in Starship Troopers on DVD and the menus (chapter select screen) flicker at the top of the screen.

    Tried another disc, this time Hercules (Disney) and this does the same thing.

    After a few more discs I discovered that 5 out of 10 suffered this trait.

    Oh, and the usual Loewe poor RGB quality.

    :mad:
     
  14. lewden

    lewden
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    Whats s-video like?
     
  15. harmunt

    harmunt
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    Not had much experience with S-video, but it looks OK and the flickering menus on DVDs are not present in this format.

    What I think I need is an engineer to come out and see the set. I really hope that the problem can be solved via the service menu. I took a look at it but I was afraid to touch anything incase I created new problems!

    I imagine that to joe bloggs it is a good set but I am incredibly fussy when it comes to picture quality.

    Anyway, I'm phoning Loewe and visiting Seven Oaks (where I bought it) on Monday so hopefully I'll get a result of some sort.

    I'll report back with my findings.
     
  16. Buckster

    Buckster
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    Harmunt,

    What Processing setting do you use, Off, DMI or DMM ?

    I find that if I use Off I do get some flickering twitter in dvd menus,
    my settings of choice are DMI, with DNR defiantely off (or you get artefacts, and in any-choice DMI seems to have som in-built DNR anyway), and sharpness always set to 1 for both DVD and for TV play-back.

    These are on R2 DVDs ?

    Mark.
     
  17. harmunt

    harmunt
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    I don't have a DMM or DNR function on the set.
    I have DNC and DMI but adjusting them has no effect. The image still flickers on the menu screens.

    And, yes, they are R2 DVDs.
     
  18. harmunt

    harmunt
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    Just been round to a mate's house with my DVD player and the offending discs.

    Rigged it up to his Toshiba picture frame 1 set...
    **** me, it looked horrendous! Ironically though, the picture didn't flicker.

    The RGB on the Tosh was also not 'true' RGB either but comparing the two, the Loewe is way better in quality. Maybe all 100Hz sets process the RGB.

    Is it just a case of me having to get used to it? I suppose so.
    I'll always have fond memories of 50Hz though...
     
  19. Browny

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    harmunt, I am surprised you are not happy with the picture quality.

    I have an Aventos to replace two poor quality Philips 9527's, the picture is far superior to any other set I have had, which includes a Sony 29" 4:3 50Hz set and the two above mentioned Philips sets.

    I have my Sky box/VCR through on 1, X Box on 2 and DVD on 3, the picture quality on each is perfect.

    It sounds to me that you may have problems with your set, or I may have missed an earlier post but have you set up the connections for each piece of equipment properly through the menu.
     
  20. harmunt

    harmunt
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    All the connections are set up correctly as I can definately see the difference in quality between the standard picture and the RGB one. It's just the RGB is nowhere near as good as true RGB.

    I have since noticed a pinkish tint on white images Whilst watching TV. It appears on the extreme left and right of the picture.

    Loewe really are a poor manufacturer IMHO. And I will tell them this on the phone tomorrow. I think I'll have to get a refund.


    :( :(
     
  21. Buckster

    Buckster
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    If you think that Loewes are poor quality - then I don't know what you think you're going to replace it with - I went through 5 Panasonic 32 inch TVs before I got the Loewe and it way outclasses them - I haven't seen another TV that matches my Vitros yet.

    What DVD player are you using ? Can you try Component in on the Loewe ?

    Mark.
     
  22. harmunt

    harmunt
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    I know what you mean. I went through 21 TVs back in 1990 before I was happy with my JVC set!

    I have a Toshiba 210e.
    I have yet to try component as I do not own one.
    May try to buy one today.
    Is it better than RGB?
     
  23. kwangomango

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    So much for all the hype they receive on this forum. Very disappointing.

    The simple fact that you can adjust the colour values in its 'RGB' mode verifies that Loewe have cut corners in this area.

    Oh, and the usual Loewe poor RGB quality.

    It's just the RGB is nowhere near as good as true RGB.

    Loewe really are a poor manufacturer IMHO



    Harmunt, i really do have to laugh at some of your comments. Do you not think that you are overreacting just a tiny bit? Rather than bashing Loewe as a brand do you not think that just maybe you have been unlucky and received a faulty set?
    With regards being able to adjust the colour using RGB, i see that as being as bonus rather than "Loewe cutting corners". All RGB signals are not necessarily the same - it depends on what levels a manufacturer has set a unit to output at. For example the Thomson Tivo unit has the RGB colour levels set way too high. Using "true RGB" as you say would mean that i have no way of compensating for these high levels by adjusting the colour control. With the Loewe however, i can reduce the colour and improve the Tivo picture.
    Like other manufacturers sets, Loewe's have to process any incoming signal to apply the 100Hz processing and allow all the digital picture enhancement stuff before it gets output to the tube guns. This is why it is not true RGB as you say. They could however still have disabled the colour control and you would have been none the wiser.
     
  24. Buckster

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    Harmunt,

    I found Component to be worse than RGB - but then other people on these forums have found Component to be better - depends on the DVD player I suppose. Mine was fine on NTSC but washed out in PAL - I think it was the DVD player.

    Only problem is that the 6 phonos to scart cable required tend to be quite expensive. Worth a try though.

    Mark.
     
  25. harmunt

    harmunt
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    Point taken kwangomango. I'll lay off the Loewe bashing!

    However, I have just come back from my local Loewe dealer and told him of my problems. With no Aventos on demo I looked at the Aconda & Xelos. Both of these sets exhibited the exact same issues that I have with the Aventos proving that my set is not faulty but a typical example of a Loewe set.

    The fact that the Xelos in particular was way worse than my set leads me to believe that its just the way it is. I'll just need to get used to the 100Hz issues.

    Incidentally I received a call from Loewe tech support this morning but I was out so he's phoning me back at 4:00. I'll let you know what he says.
     
  26. kwangomango

    kwangomango
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    What level have you got sharpness set to?
    How close are you standing from the screen?
     
  27. Pug72

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    After returning a Sony KV36FS76 due to the unimpressive picture and a 42inch Sony plasma before that, I thought I'd go for a Loewe.

    Reading this thread has shown me that Loewe sets also, I fear, would not make me happy. It seems the modern Tv with all it's 100hz and digital picture enhancements cannot compare to the sharp, natural looking picture of older sets.

    I'll be sticking with my four year old 32inch Grundig now I think.
     
  28. kwangomango

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    It absolutely amazes me that you have come to that conclusion based on the comments on this thread.
    How about checking out other comments on this forum?
    How about having an opinion of your own and looking at a TV with your own eyes. What the hell is the world coming to:rolleyes:
     
  29. Pug72

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    lol.

    If you read my post you'll see I have tried 2 sets and their picture quality is inferior to a 4 year old 50hz tv with no digital bells and whistles.

    I thought this forum was all about sharing experiences, both good and bad, but I have found the majority of the posts are about picture quality problems.

    I have viewed many, many different sets thank you and my opinion stands.

    Newer tv's with digital enhancements are not as good as older, simpler tv's.

    Of course the members here will realise that these are indeed MY opinions and will be intelligent enough to realize that they can make their own minds up and will be refering to the advice given here for peoples personal experiences with certain models.
     
  30. kwangomango

    kwangomango
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    I was referring to you comments on Loewe. It said to me that you hadn't tested one and wouldn't bother based on the comments on this thread.
     

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