AVCHD or HDV

David

Member
At some point I will probably have to get a new HD camcorder as my old one (A Sony HDV HD1) is starting to develop problems - very sad.

However, I'm now faced with what seems like an even bigger question - AVCHD or HDV? I currently edit HDV in Sony Vegas v6d and then just copy the HDV file to a DVD-R(DL) disk, which plays back well on my PS3 and doesn't lose much quality in the editing process.

Would AVCHD be easier or harder for me to edit and play back with this set-up and without losing quality?

Supplementary question - any recommended models?

Many thanks
 

chrishull3

Well-known Member
At some point I will probably have to get a new HD camcorder as my old one (A Sony HDV HD1) is starting to develop problems - very sad.

However, I'm now faced with what seems like an even bigger question - AVCHD or HDV? I currently edit HDV in Sony Vegas v6d and then just copy the HDV file to a DVD-R(DL) disk, which plays back well on my PS3 and doesn't lose much quality in the editing process.

Would AVCHD be easier or harder for me to edit and play back with this set-up and without losing quality?

Supplementary question - any recommended models?

Many thanks
as i use avchd and hdv i can you avchd is a lot harder to make any decent well edited films with, to do so you will probobly have to convert the footage,
are you saying you only make standard def dvds, why not avchd discs from -R dvd blank discs,
 

mmace

Novice Member
as i use avchd and hdv i can you avchd is a lot harder to make any decent well edited films with, to do so you will probobly have to convert the footage
????
it's exactly the same to make decent well edited films, it's digital video footage, you edit it in exactly the same way and no conversion is needed
 

senu

Distinguished Member
At some point I will probably have to get a new HD camcorder as my old one (A Sony HDV HD1) is starting to develop problems - very sad.
HC 1? I have one whose LCD is playing up too

However, I'm now faced with what seems like an even bigger question - AVCHD or HDV? I currently edit HDV in Sony Vegas v6d and then just copy the HDV file to a DVD-R(DL) disk, which plays back well on my PS3 and doesn't lose much quality in the editing process.

Would AVCHD be easier or harder for me to edit and play back with this set-up and without losing quality?
Easier no
If you have a decent PC ( Quad core /i7) maybe just the same
Quality
I think you may be able to get quality identical to the HDV with ease
Quality similar to the AVCHD depends on how Vegas output compares with the native shot-output of some of the latest Camcorders
 

mroshaw

Member
PS3 supports AVCHD now anyway, so swings and roundabouts in that respect.

I edit AVCHD footage extensively on a Dual Core 2.6GHz (4 GB, 32-bit Vista) with no trouble whatsoever.

Streams beautifully from my PC to the PS3 as well, no disks required!
 

chrishull3

Well-known Member
????
it's exactly the same to make decent well edited films, it's digital video footage, you edit it in exactly the same way and no conversion is needed

Ok what spek pc and what software will do it without down converting the footage,if i dont down convert avchd on pinnacle or adobe any titled films with transitions music etc just crash, if you are talking about a dvd film that is different i am talking hd, does your avchd footage play back well on a film timeline mine doesnt and i have a quad core pc.if you manage well done but read the forums and you will find plenty of people struggling to edit avchd.Not sure where the ps3 comes into this it will play any disc and if anyone plans to make a film for me it has to be on some format be it tape dvd avchd disc or blu ray disc
 
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senu

Distinguished Member
PS3 supports AVCHD now anyway, so swings and roundabouts in that respect.

I edit AVCHD footage extensively on a Dual Core 2.6GHz (4 GB, 32-bit Vista) with no trouble whatsoever.

Streams beautifully from my PC to the PS3 as well, no disks required!
This is true.. :)..The PS3 can access les in a shared folder on the PC
especially as Vista has media server/ streamer abilities built in
What some folk have an issue with is the comparing the AVCHD files from the Camcorder with that output from from software
Unlike you I could not edit AVCHD with any fluidity until I got a Core 2 Quad:devil:
Also similarly you can stream HDV from a PC to the PS3:)
 

mmace

Novice Member
Ok what spek pc and what software will do it without down converting the footage,if i dont down convert avchd on pinnacle or adobe any titled films with transitions music etc just crash, if you are talking about a dvd film that is different i am talking hd, does your avchd footage play back well on a film timeline mine doesnt and i have a quad core pc.if you manage well done but read the forums and you will find plenty of people struggling to edit avchd.Not sure where the ps3 comes into this it will play any disc and if anyone plans to make a film for me it has to be on some format be it tape dvd avchd disc or blu ray disc
your original post made it out that peoples editing styles and ideas went out the window with AVCHD, you made it sound like suddenly with AVCHD you don't know how to edit something well.

Read other posts and you'll see plenty of people can edit AVCHD just fine. Personally I have an i7 920 with 3Gb of RAM (£620 for the full PC except monitor so not expensive as most make out) and I edited a music video with 16 AVCHD tracks on top of each other with no slowdown
 

senu

Distinguished Member
your original post made it out that peoples editing styles and ideas went out the window with AVCHD, you made it sound like suddenly with AVCHD you don't know how to edit something well.
In fairness AVCHD editng has evolved and now more " mainstream"
However earlier versions of edting software had been far from satisfactory and hardware requirements for AVCHD in the early days of C2D ( let alone single core P4) were a painful experience

Even playing the files was .. Hard work let alone editing them. This was in contrast to HDV

Read other posts and you'll see plenty of people can edit AVCHD just fine. Personally I have an i7 920 with 3Gb of RAM (£620 for the full PC except monitor so not expensive as most make out) and I edited a music video with 16 AVCHD tracks on top of each other with no slowdown
How many folk have that though.?
It is becoming more affordable and less esoteric but far far less common than " plenty of people" own.
I still have a decent Q6600 (overclocked to 3.0Ghz) and within the last month a i7 ( similar to and infact inspired by your experience) but thee is also software. I now have the "pleasure" of a CS4 master collection :devil:which Im having to accept Ilhave to learn to use....
It cost a fair bit ( not from my pocket) and is going to cost more in learnig time)
The likes of Pinnacle studio 12 are more affordable, more newbee friendly and would appeal more to a casual user (especially relatively new to video) who get his shiny AVCHD camcorder .. but that software buggy stability is .. a :nono:
Corel VS X2 is Ok but its GUI is a bt of an aquired taste
Sony Vegas is fine but not everybody finds it intuitive to get into
 
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mmace

Novice Member
I still have a decent Q6600 (overclocked to 3.0Ghz) and within the last month a i7 ( similar to and infact inspired by your experience) but thee is also software. I now have the "pleasure" of a CS4 master collection :devil:which Im having to accept Ilhave to learn to use....
It cost a fair bit ( not from my pocket) and is going to cost more in learnig time)
that wasn't a problem for me (learning) as I used to use it for work about 10 years ago (v5.5) and have got the latest version ever since so I too am on CS4 master collection and find it really hard to use software you find easy like Vegas or Nero (it took me around 2 hours to edit the music video in CS4, if I'd have used Vegas it would have taken days [literally] )
 

chrishull3

Well-known Member
your original post made it out that peoples editing styles and ideas went out the window with AVCHD, you made it sound like suddenly with AVCHD you don't know how to edit something well.

Read other posts and you'll see plenty of people can edit AVCHD just fine. Personally I have an i7 920 with 3Gb of RAM (£620 for the full PC except monitor so not expensive as most make out) and I edited a music video with 16 AVCHD tracks on top of each other with no slowdown

When i can make 1920x1080 avchd films for audience competitions like the second overall and wildlife win Page 3
i will agree and may be able to edit something well despite having plenty of competition wins.If somone makes a dvd film it has to be downconverted quality wise as does hdv, i dont know why avchd wont play properly or why i can only basic edit files for bd or avchd disc on my packard bell quad core pc with similar ram to yours,it could be pinnacle or adobe being my softwares,there may be plenty of people who can edit avchd fine i take it without down conversion but there also plenty of people who cant and only use the files for playback.
As long we enjoy using our cams is all that matters in the long run for sure.
 

senu

Distinguished Member
that wasn't a problem for me (learning) as I used to use it for work about 10 years ago (v5.5) and have got the latest version ever since so I too am on CS4 master collection and find it really hard to use software you find easy like Vegas or Nero (it took me around 2 hours to edit the music video in CS4, if I'd have used Vegas it would have taken days [literally] )
FWIW I did use Premiere till Premiere Pro ver 1.5 (8) but its GUI changes in subtle but real ways with each succeding version and once you miss one (Im my case CS1-3) version it seems like new software..
This is true for Photoshop but a litte less so
Vegas is, I agree quite unlike Premiere but it is learnable
Avid ... another story...:suicide:
 

David

Member
Thanks for all the replys. I only have a basic Pentium P4 2.5GHz with 768Mb Ram so I make an avi proxy file from the HDV footage and edit that, replacing it on the timeline with the HDV just before rendering. Its very easy if it all reads in as a single clip (which it does on my setup). I burn HDV files direct to DVD-R(DL) disks (no authoring) because the p3 plays them natively. Is it the same with AVCHD?

I don't think Vegas 6d can cope with AVCHD anyway so I assume I would at least be replacing the software, but would I also need to replace the computer?

It sounds like there is no advantage to AVCHD except the size of the file and doing away with the tape. Are there any HDV camcorders that write to HDD or to memory cards?

Thanks
David
 

senu

Distinguished Member
Thanks for all the replys. I only have a basic Pentium P4 2.5GHz with 768Mb Ram so I make an avi proxy file from the HDV footage and edit that, replacing it on the timeline with the HDV just before rendering. Its very easy if it all reads in as a single clip (which it does on my setup). I burn HDV files direct to DVD-R(DL) disks (no authoring) because the p3 plays them natively. Is it the same with AVCHD?
Yes and no

I don't think Vegas 6d can cope with AVCHD anyway so I assume I would at least be replacing the software, but would I also need to replace the computer?
Absolutely Vegas 6d does not support AVCHD and a C2 Quad or 17 system is not really overkill for AVCHD editing

It sounds like there is no advantage to AVCHD except the size of the file and doing away with the tape. Are there any HDV camcorders that write to HDD or to memory cards?
AVCHD now arguably has similar quality to HDV at lower bitrates , therefore, it should theoretically at higher bitate be more detailed
Also AVCHD is not limited to 1440 x 1080 and can also record in tre progresive ( theoreical advantage too)
In Practice HDV mpeg2 is being outmoded due use of tape which manufactuerer marketeers and J Public love to hate with firewire capture
Some JVC do record HDV to HDD and some Higher end kit ( Sony EX seires record higher bitrae mpeg2 to solid state media)
So far AVCHD is in the main , a consumer format, thought there are pro versins ( the sort whimake itto Blu Ray discs.. but no domestic camcorder outputs those)
 

David

Member
Thanks.

Sounds like I should try to nurse the Sony back to health until I can afford a whole load of new kit and computers get a bit faster. I'm surprised how little progress has been made in the consumer editing world since I bought this camcorder in 2005.

Best wishes
David
 

FauxPas

Standard Member
AVCHD is compressed right off the bat, which I think is a no go.
HDV may not be perfect, but you can get some GREAT footage from it...

Also, AVCHD will need a really decent PC.
I have a quad core PC with a decent graphics card and it still struggles with it.
 

A n d r e w

Novice Member
AVCHD is compressed right off the bat, which I think is a no go.
HDV may not be perfect, but you can get some GREAT footage from it...
HDV also uses interframe compression. It's long GOP mpeg2.
 

senu

Distinguished Member
HDV also uses interframe compression. It's long GOP mpeg2.
True ,
even DV AVI is compressed compared to ncompressed but fro practical purposes DV AVI, intraframe composition makes its compression largely "unnoticable"
Regardless of the physics HDV is easier to edit and seems to be nearer DV AVI in terms of generational loss
This is certainly as a result of better mpeg editing which wi hopefuly also happen with AVCHD but nless it is adapteed professionally it might not be to the degree of HDV support
I may be cynical but I dont think the industry as a whole are keen to see any widepread creation of homemade BD discs ( as is possible with DVD) perhaps because it might open the door to Commercial BD replication even on a small scale.
At present that is too costly to be effective anyway and the outlay ( hardware , software and media) would put anyone but the most determined off
Besides a lot of folk are more sold on HD based media playersfor hommmade movies and wold just buy or rent BD discs
You can even get second hand hand BD discs now for just a tenner or under. ( Iv got one or 2 for £8 recenly and they were titles my kids loved ..not studio rejects) )
At that cost even duplicating commercial DVDs ( apart from the need to backup o kep original fraom jammy fingers) seems pretty pointless
 

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