Question AVCHD:Length of video when on DVD

[_Dragon_]

Hi

So with camcorders now filming avshd i was told you could only record about 30 minutes? if you want to put it on a dvd to play in a bluray player. Is this true?

 

[rogs]

Yes - and even though you can burn these so called 'AVCHD DVDs' with either a Blu-ray or a standard DVD writer, you can only replay them on a Blu-ray player....

 

[_Dragon_]

That bit i did know,So in theory it would be better to burn it onto a bluray disc if its something thats been recorded for a hour or next best thing a usb pen drive and plug that into your bluray player.

 

[vkmast]

You can read more pertaining to this subject in previous threads such as this one, posts # 1 to 6, and another thread here, posts # 1 to 15.

it would be better to burn it onto a bluray disc if ...

...you want menus as well.
And I would not recommend using avchd dvds at present any more.

 

[_Dragon_]

Thanks for those links

No i dont want menus,Its just so i can quickly and easily show my videos to the family.

 

[grahamlthompson]

Hi

So with camcorders now filming avshd i was told you could only record about 30 minutes? if you want to put it on a dvd to play in a bluray player. Is this true?

Depends on the bitrate. 17Mbps which is the usual rate for camcorder for HQ 1080i (any higher a DVD can't cope anyway). If you divide by 8 to get Megabytes/Second you get 2.125 MB/sec. If you say for safeties a blank DVD is 4.5GB (4500 MB). Divide by 2.125 gives you 2117 seconds (Approx 35 minutes).

You can forget 1080p50 for AVCHD and Bluray (BD spec only supports progressive up to 24 fps).

Incidentally a PC will play AVCHD HD content provided you have the required codecs. Given a way to connect a PC to a HD TV you wouldn't need a Blu-ray player. Windows 8 and 10 supports miracast so a miracast adapter on a TV should work.

A number of streaming boxes (Like the Amazon TV box) have built in screen casting.

By way of comparison BBC HD (Freeview or Satellite) uses AVCHD at about 4.5Mbps. So a DVD blank would hold a recording of about 17 divided 4.5 times 35 mins. (132 minutes).

If you haven't access to a Bluray burner it's a very cheap way of burning HD to optical media especially for lower bitrate quality (like the BBC HD example).

 

[Music Fan]

You can forget 1080p50 for AVCHD and Bluray (BD spec only supports progressive up to 24 fps).

AVCHD 2.0 is 50p/60p compliant since 2011 ;
AVCHD - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I tried with 50p @ 28 Mbps burnt on dvd-rw (I created the AVCHD structure with TSMuxer) and it's played without problem by my 2 Blu-ray standalone players.
The duration at 28 Mbps on dvd-5 is short of course, but it works.
But one can burn it on Blu-ray (BD-25, nearly the same price than dvd-9) to allow longer durations, most of recent players should be able to play AVCHD structure burnt on BD-R.

 

[grahamlthompson]

AVCHD 2.0 is 50p/60p compliant since 2011 ;
AVCHD - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I tried with 50p @ 28 Mbps burnt on dvd-rw (I created the AVCHD structure with TSMuxer) and it's played without problem by my 2 Blu-ray standalone players.
The duration at 28 Mbps on dvd-5 is short of course, but it works.
But one can burn it on Blu-ray (BD-25, nearly the same price than dvd-9) to allow longer durations, most of recent players should be able to play AVCHD structure burnt on BD-R.

None of my video editing programmes/disk authoring software support 50p burns to BD disks, including Sony Vegas 12 pro. When I asked Sony they said it's not compatible with the BD spec.

 

[Music Fan]

That's why I was talking about AVCHD structure burnt on BD-R, it doesn't have to be compatible with the BD spec because it's not a Blu-ray structure.
AVCHD - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

AVCHD video, recorded onto Blu-ray disc can be played on most Blu-ray Disc players

Vegas 12 can surely output 50p files (if you need 50p disks, use Vegas only for video editing, not authoring), then open your mp4 or TS file in TSMuxer to create AVCHD (no menu) and burn it on BD-R with ImgBurn.

 

[grahamlthompson]

That's why I was talking about AVCHD structure burnt on BD-R, it doesn't have to be compatible with the BD spec because it's not a Blu-ray structure.
AVCHD - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Vegas 12 can surely output 50p files (if you need 50p disks, use Vegas only for video editing, not authoring), then open your mp4 or TS file in TSMuxer to create AVCHD (no menu) and burn it on BD-R with ImgBurn.

Yes it can, but you cannot create properly authored disks with animated menus, chapter points playlists etc, using DVD Architect Pro, unless you have 1080p24 source content. If I simply wanted to playback the content I would use a suitable media player and the original edited video, not much point in burning to optical media.

 

[Music Fan]

Yes it can, but you cannot create properly authored disks with animated menus, chapter points playlists etc, using DVD Architect Pro, unless you have 1080p24 source content. If I simply wanted to playback the content I would use a suitable media player and the original edited video, not much point in burning to optical media.

Ok, but I gave a trick for those who need 50p/60p on BD-R (TSmuxer support chapters and subtitles by the way).

You can make menus for AVCHD with multiAVCHD, but it's quite restricted (based on templates).

Apart from DVD Architect Pro and multiAVCHD, Studio (by Pinnacle) is able to make menus for AVCHD and BD, and it has 50p/60p output mode !

Another trick that may work if you don't like or don't have these softwares consist in making a Blu-ray authoring with the authoring software of your choice if it supports 1080p50/60 files (which are not supposed to be Blu-ray compliant yet but with the next BD Spec, 1080p50/60 will be officially supported, thus more an more Blu-ray authoring softwares are gonna support it ; Studio is probably not the only one to already support it), then use multiAVCHD's re-author mode and export in AVCHD mode (it will not re-encode files).
Then verify with MPC-HC (for example) if everything is still there (menus, titles), and if yes, burn folders on BD-R ; you will get a 50p AVCHD with the menus you like compatible with most of current Blu-ray players (that support AVCHD 2.0).
Most of players can also play AVCHD from USB key or hard drive if one don't have or don't need BD-R burning.

 

[chrishull3]

Any reasonable software will allow content form the video timeline what ever the frame rate [25P/50i/50P/24P to render and burn a AVCHD or BLU RAY disc with chapter menus as long as the render is compliant with the disc format.Powerdirector will also allow 4K 25P be rendered to disc.

 

[_Dragon_]

I have no intention on buying a bluray writer,So for now the only best thing to do is buy a usb pen or maybe a usb hard drive.

 

[12harry]

BlueRay passed me by, as making DVDs into AVCHD was such a pain . . . by comparision as Others have suggested - the easy-route is a USB stick ( suggest 32G as minimum as yr collection grows and I buy USB3 ) - but a fast external HDD may work too.

IMHO, DVD's are still useful for those friends without hi-tech gear.... although the image edges can be a little fuzzy. But then, they won't notice . . . . .

 

[chrishull3]

I have no intention on buying a bluray writer,So for now the only best thing to do is buy a usb pen or maybe a usb hard drive.

Yes its obvious and sensible to put all unedited video and also edited films onto external drives,regarding AVCHD i dont make any anymore only BD as another storage and easy playback method,but AVCHD discs can be burnt on PCs and laptops with a DVD burner.250 line res DVD is years out of date IMO.

 

[grahamlthompson]

Yes its obvious and sensible to put all unedited video and also edited films onto external drives,regarding AVCHD i dont make any anymore only BD as another storage and easy playback method,but AVCHD discs can be burnt on PCs and laptops with a DVD burner.250 line res DVD is years out of date IMO.

250 line ?? In former PAL countries DVD is 720 x 576 25fps (same as best digital SD channels), In former NTSC 720 x 480 30fps (nominally).

250 lines isn't a valid resolution for DVD-Video disks.


DVD-Video - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[chrishull3]

250 line ?? In former PAL countries DVD is 720 x 576 25fps (same as best digital SD channels), In former NTSC 720 x 480 30fps (nominally).

250 lines isn't a valid resolution for DVD-Video disks.


DVD-Video - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ok nit pick,BUT they are still SD and have nothing like the resolution of an AVCHD burnt on DVD,and quality is lost putting even normal 1920x1080P on them.

 

[grahamlthompson]

Ok nit pick,BUT they are still SD and quality is lost putting even normal 1920x1080P on them.

It's hardly nit picking pointing out that your post was completely inaccurate. Afaik DVD movies still outsell Blu-ray disks. If you put content like say BBC HD recorded live onto DVD disks in AVCHD format there is no loss of quality at all (provided you do not recode the content) , burning to Blu-ray will give identical results.

 

[chrishull3]

It's hardly nit picking pointing out that your post was completely inaccurate. Afaik DVD movies still outsell Blu-ray disks. If you put content like say BBC HD recorded live onto DVD disks in AVCHD format there is no loss of quality at all (provided you do not recode the content) , burning to Blu-ray will give identical results.

Well DVDs outselling BLU RAY does not matter to me people are easily pleased,my post was not completely inaccurate but partly saying 250 lines which is back to VHS days,standard DVD is SD though and putting 30 or so min of BBC HD on dvd in avchd format means nothing as that is HD
As for AVCHD being BLU RAY standard Blu-ray uses a MPEG4 compression. It's using the H.264 codec. Most blu-ray players can read up to 40Mbps. This is a lot of data per sec.
The AVCHD codec is heavily compressed. It's like trying to cram a beach ball into a garden hose. There's a lot of artifacts as well, which will only degrade the overall image quality. The max bit rate for this codec is usually 22-24Mbps. Most modern cameras use the H.264 codec and compress their video to a max of 48Mbps. This is double the amount of data then that of the AVCHD codec.
Can both H.264 and AVCHD do full 1080p (1920x1080), yes but the way the files are compressed is the difference.

 

[grahamlthompson]

Well DVDs outselling BLU RAY does not matter to me people are easily pleased,my post was not completely inaccurate but partly saying 250 lines which is back to VHS days,standard DVD is SD though and putting 30 or so min of BBC HD on dvd in avchd format means nothing as that is HD
As for AVCHD being BLU RAY standard Blu-ray uses a MPEG4 compression. It's using the H.264 codec. Most blu-ray players can read up to 40Mbps. This is a lot of data per sec.
The AVCHD codec is heavily compressed. It's like trying to cram a beach ball into a garden hose. There's a lot of artifacts as well, which will only degrade the overall image quality. The max bit rate for this codec is usually 22-24Mbps. Most modern cameras use the H.264 codec and compress their video to a max of 48Mbps. This is double the amount of data then that of the AVCHD codec.
Can both H.264 and AVCHD do full 1080p (1920x1080), yes but the way the files are compressed is the difference.

Stop digging a hole. AVCHD is H264/AVC the self same codec (often abbreviated to AVC, H264, or AVCHD) as to being superior. HD broadcasting uses exactly the same codec. Despite the container being transport stream, the actual content is the same as the .m2ts output from a HD camcorder.

AVCHD - H264/AVC - AVC) is the most advanced variant of mpeg4 there is. AVC stands for Advanced Video Codec (advanced as in superior to mpeg 4). Also used on bluray see the link below.

H265 (HEVC) used for 4K is the only codec so far that is more efficient.

As to your last question, as H264 and AVCHD are the same codec, yes of course they can.


H.264/MPEG-4 AVC - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I have no idea how you got the information you post as fact, I do know it's completely inaccurate.

Here's a detailed breakdown of a BBC-HD broadcast

General
ID : 1 (0x1)
Complete name : E:\DrWho\Doctor Who_Ep01.ts
Format : BDAV
Format/Info : Blu-ray Video
File size : 1.41 GiB
Duration : 47mn 39s
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 4 247 Kbps

Video
ID : 5400 (0x1518)
Menu ID : 6941 (0x1B1D)
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : [email protected]
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 4 frames
Codec ID : 27
Duration : 47mn 39s
Bit rate : 3 424 Kbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 25.000 fps
Standard : Component
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : MBAFF
Scan order : Top Field First
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.066
Stream size : 1.14 GiB (81%)
Color range : Limited
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.709

Audio #1
ID : 5401 (0x1519)
Menu ID : 6941 (0x1B1D)
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension : CM (complete main)
Format settings, Endianness : Big
Codec ID : 6
Duration : 47mn 39s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 384 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode : Lossy
Delay relative to video : -1s 34ms
Stream size : 131 MiB (9%)
Language : English

Audio #2
ID : 5402 (0x151A)
Menu ID : 6941 (0x1B1D)
Format : MPEG Audio
Format version : Version 1
Format profile : Layer 2
Codec ID : 3
Duration : 47mn 39s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 256 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode : Lossy
Delay relative to video : -1s 2ms
Stream size : 87.3 MiB (6%)
Language : nar

Text #1
ID : 5403 (0x151B)-888
Menu ID : 6941 (0x1B1D)
Format : Teletext
Language : English

Text #2
ID : 5404 (0x151C)
Menu ID : 6941 (0x1B1D)
Format : DVB Subtitle
Codec ID : 6
Duration : 47mn 35s
Delay relative to video : 4s 485ms
Language : English

If you wish I can post the same analysis for a HD camcorder clip (just need to create one). .

<mod edit: derogatory comments removed>

 

[chrishull3]

Well DVD is sd but avchd and blu ray disc the same quality,no but its pointless arguing about it,4K H265 and 4K H264, H265 does use a little less space per film but i still prefer H264 for the faster renders 30 seconds of 4K H.265 takes 4m 24s while the same clip in H.264 60 seconds for me.

 

[_Dragon_]

Yes its obvious and sensible to put all unedited video and also edited films onto external drives,regarding AVCHD i dont make any anymore only BD as another storage and easy playback method,but AVCHD discs can be burnt on PCs and laptops with a DVD burner.250 line res DVD is years out of date IMO.

Any suggestions on what usb pens would be a good stable one?

 

[rogs]

Here's a detailed breakdown of a BBC-HD broadcast

General
ID : 1 (0x1)
Complete name : E:\DrWho\Doctor Who_Ep01.ts
Format : BDAV
Format/Info : Blu-ray Video
File size : 1.41 GiB
Duration : 47mn 39s
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 4 247 Kbps

Video
ID : 5400 (0x1518)
Menu ID : 6941 (0x1B1D)
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : [email protected]
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 4 frames
Codec ID : 27
Duration : 47mn 39s
Bit rate : 3 424 Kbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 25.000 fps
Standard : Component
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : MBAFF
Scan order : Top Field First
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.066
Stream size : 1.14 GiB (81%)
Color range : Limited
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.709

Audio #1
ID : 5401 (0x1519)
Menu ID : 6941 (0x1B1D)
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension : CM (complete main)
Format settings, Endianness : Big
Codec ID : 6
Duration : 47mn 39s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 384 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode : Lossy
Delay relative to video : -1s 34ms
Stream size : 131 MiB (9%)
Language : English

Audio #2
ID : 5402 (0x151A)
Menu ID : 6941 (0x1B1D)
Format : MPEG Audio
Format version : Version 1
Format profile : Layer 2
Codec ID : 3
Duration : 47mn 39s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 256 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode : Lossy
Delay relative to video : -1s 2ms
Stream size : 87.3 MiB (6%)
Language : nar

Text #1
ID : 5403 (0x151B)-888
Menu ID : 6941 (0x1B1D)
Format : Teletext
Language : English

Text #2
ID : 5404 (0x151C)
Menu ID : 6941 (0x1B1D)
Format : DVB Subtitle
Codec ID : 6
Duration : 47mn 35s
Delay relative to video : 4s 485ms
Language : English

Glad to see BBC HD has changed their HD audio to AC3.
Last time I tried to stream HD over my network to my WD Live box there was no audio. At that time the BBC were using HE-AAC to overcome the lack of Audio Description availability with AC3. (WD Live can't decode HE-AAC audio)
I must try again to see if it can decode the new AC3 audio tracks OK....

 

[chrishull3]

Any suggestions on what usb pens would be a good stable one?

Sorry i have not used them,i load my files with a card reader to external drives like the Seagate expansion drives,also edited films go on drives but its best to keep 2 as anything can fail.

 

[_Dragon_]

Shall have to look into these expansion drives,Should be fine to plug into the usb slot of my bluray player.