AVCHD in 1080/50p: transfer to BDR on BWT 720/735

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by ClassicalMan, Aug 28, 2013.

  1. ClassicalMan

    ClassicalMan
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    I have the DMR-BWT700. I also have a Panasonic X900 camcorder. The X900 will record at a highest quality of 1080/50p in AVCHD at 28Mbps. However, if I transfer such footage to the HDD of the BWT700 (via inserting the SD card from the X900 into the BWT700), the BWT700 will not burn this 1080/50p AVCHD footage from the HDD to a BDR in its native format. A box comes up saying that it can only be burned in HG mode (i.e. the highest quality HD mode). However, it is clear that HG mode will give the customary 1080/50i output, i.e. it is discarding every other frame from the 1080/50p AVCHD original and interlacing the remaining 25 frames to produce the 50 fields of 1080/50i.

    I'd be interested to learn from members who have the BWT720 or 735 and have tried the same operation whether these machines have the same limitation, which is to say that they will not burn AVCHD in 1080/50p to BDR as 50p footage, and will only burn in HG mode, meaning 1080/50i.

    28Mbps is well below the maximum bitrate of Blu-ray discs, so the bitrate itself of the 1080/50p footage does not explain the limitation.

    Thanks for any insights.

    ClassicalMan
     
  2. Gavtech

    Gavtech
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    Notes from page 57 of the '735 manual:

    The following HD Videos (AVCHD) cannot be copied to the disc in high definition.
    - Exceeding 18 Mbps
    - 1080/50p or 1080/60p
    - Without the AVCHD information (video recorded with certain non-Panasonic equipment, video copied to the HDD after copying it to BD-R or BD-RE once, etc.)
    3D video will become 2D.


    I assume (but I have not looked) that it will be the same for the '720.
     
  3. ClassicalMan

    ClassicalMan
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    Thanks. The BWT700 manual has a similar set of footnotes (page 64), but these appear to refer to copying AVCHD material to DVDR (not to BDR). When I copied the 1080/50p AVCHD material from the SD card (out of the camcorder) onto the BWT700's HDD, a warning message came up stating that it would not be possible to copy this material to DVDR. That's a known, given that 18Mbps is the maximum bitrate of DVD(R). But it was possible to copy 1080/50p to BDR in high definition...it's just that it was turned into 1080/50i and thus the quality advantage removed.

    Panasonic have been pushing the 1080/50p capabilities of their camcorders aggressively. The X900 (and new X920) even feature a dedicated button to switch to 1080/50p mode (the other recording modes are set via the menu). We all know of big firms where one hand doesn't know what the other is doing, but it's a shame that Panasonic appear in their BD recorders not to be supporting the highest quality mode about which they're making such a noise in their camcorders, particularly since reviews have noted that these camcorders appear to be optimised for recording in 1080/50p.

    Classical Man
     
  4. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson
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  5. ClassicalMan

    ClassicalMan
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    Many thanks for these replies, which are much appreciated. I'm not seeking to be in the least argumentative with this further post, but rather to understand Panasonic's strategy and how the technology is moving. The BWT735 would have been planned after the arrival of progressive-scan AVCHD. And Panasonic have themselves being making a major play of AVCHD in 1080/50p on their camcorders for 2+ years now. Is your conclusion that Panasonic have not yet instituted the ability to burn HD footage in progressive scan (in this instance 1080/50p) to BDR (whether as native AVCHD or converted to the Panasonic's standard HD format) because they are concerned that a resultant 1080/50p disc would not be playable in earlier-generation Blu-ray players, leading to customer complaints that they'd produced a disc that could not be played on any BD player (no universal compatibility, in other words)?

    Thanks again.

    Classical Man
     
  6. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson
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    Not a clue why Panasonic didn't make the recorder AVCHD progressive capable. Kit that is, should have the official logo

    Basically the message is if you want to buy kit compatible with 1080p50/60 look for a logo like these.

    https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=A...pLeSr0gWmx4GYCw&ved=0CD0QsAQ&biw=1600&bih=782

    A similar situation exists for media players, if you write the content to a HDD then only the latest players will work. These can be quite cheap to buy (around £30.00) and may be a solution to showing your edited 1080p50 content in it's original quality.

    I have one of these

    Xenta Mini 8GB 1080P Multimedia Player with SD/MMC and.. | Ebuyer.com

    I have a Sony Camcorder that will record 1080p50, if you are interested I can test the player.
     
  7. ClassicalMan

    ClassicalMan
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    Many thanks for your reply and also your kind offer, Graham. However, my need is to burn AVCHD 1080/50p material to BDR (in either AVCHD or the Panasonic's standard HD format/codec) in order to archive family camcorder footage. I realise that one option is to retain the SD card on which the footage is shot. The expense of so doing doesn't really trouble me (even fast SD cards with high capacity are now fairly cheap), but I have doubts over the longevity of SD cards. Although none of us can be sure, it's likely that optical discs carefully stored will be good for a few decades (I use only high quality BDRs). On the other hand, solid state memory seems to have a propensity to start to 'fade' after c. 5 years.

    Panasonic's better consumer camcorders are now optimised for shooting (AVCHD) in 1080/50p, which is to say that the quality advantage versus 1080/50i is more than one would expect solely from the recording of that much more data (50 frames rather than 25 frames per second). It's possible to play back from the camera (using its HDMI output) this 1080/50p footage. Yet Panasonic's current BD recorders (over two model generations after AVCHD progressive was launched and since they introduced it into their camcorders) do not support burning 1080/50p to BDR. Most frustrating! But thanks for the helpful replies, which have established that buying a BWT735 wouldn't provide this capability.

    Classical Man
     
  8. philno

    philno
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    Hi Classical Man

    Here is I hope some good confirmed news for you

    Yes you definately CAN copy to Bluray disc in full 1080p AVCHD!

    I have a Panasonic V720 1080p progressive capable AVCHD camcorder (this years model and also records sound in Dolby Digital 5.1 Surround)


    I also have Panasonic Bluray recorder BWT720 (last years model)

    Both have the "AVCHD progressive" logo on them.

    I've been using this camcorder with the BWT720 for a few months now

    and have had no problem copying the SD card to the recorder then

    copying to a blank bluray disc: the full HD AVCHD 1080p (progressive)

    contents are faithfully copied to the disk, including in my case the 5.1

    sound as well.

    When copying to the hard disk first, the recorder flags with a red logo that

    it is a 1080p 50 copy.

    The only obvious difference is that the copy time takes quite a bit longer

    than 1080i due to the almost double bit rate, but that's to be expected.

    So the answer is a positive YES

    Best Wishes

    Phil
    Rotherham, South Yorks UK
     
  9. ClassicalMan

    ClassicalMan
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    Many thanks indeed for this good news, Phil. I'd most relieved to know that Panasonic *did* add the capability to burn 1080p AVCHD material to BDR from the 720 onwards. Not having this option on their Blu-ray recorders, whilst promoting it so heavily on their camcorders, had seemed almost reckless!

    Classical Man
     

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