Avc-a1xva

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by Donkey99, Apr 27, 2007.

  1. Donkey99

    Donkey99
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    Hi all,

    Collecting my new XVA (upgrading from an a1se - which is for sale in the for sale forum).

    What would you recommend in terms of setting it up? I hear Audyssey doesn't make such a nice job on equalizing speaker frequencies? A chap at my local dealer recommended using it to setup distances, crossover freqs etc but to switch the equaliser to 'flat'

    Any help from existing owners is much appreciated (& needed!):thumbsup:
     
  2. Jase

    Jase
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    Depends on you and your ears. The Audyssey EQ setting works great for me for movies and I use the Flat setting for Music and any THX mode.

    Ideally you should use a tripod to take the measurements and I'd also recommend taking them at the maximum eight positions.

    Best thing is to give it a whirl and see what you think of it. :)
     
  3. Jules

    Jules
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    I treid Audessey with an A11XVA, and although I'm just about to exchange it for an A1XVA I'm pretty sure the Audessey implentation is the same.

    My take on Audessey is that it is cool feature, but not one I get on with.

    I really didn't like the Audessey sound. It made my speakers sound too bright and sucked out all the bass impact.

    Although auto setup got the speaker distances bang on, it got the size of my THX speakers wrong. Even the manual suggests manually overriding the speaker settings in some circumstances.

    Personally I'd rather use a tape measure to set speaker distances (it's quicker), I know my THX speakers should be setup as 'small', I'd adjust the speaker balance according to my ears, and if I was still unhappy with the sound I'd move my listening position.

    Of course I'll try it again when my A1XVA arrives tomorrow :)clap: ) but for now I believe it to be the least important feature on this fantastic amplifier.
     
  4. Donkey99

    Donkey99
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    Ok, I used the mic and it seemed to set things up well - interestingly it has set all of my speakers as large? It also had a repeated issue saying my centre was out of phase - which it wasn't.

    It seems to sound ok when, but listening to my HD DVD player over HDMI seems to need the volume turning up louder than I used to on my A1SE?

    I'm putting it at -15.0db whereas I used to have my old amp around -20.0. I have to be honest - I can't really hear any massive improvement over the A1SE.

    How do I see the room eq settings Audyssey has made? All I seem to see are the large speaker settings and distances but no frequency EQ?

    It sounds ok so far but I'm sure there are other tweaks to be made!
     
  5. Jase

    Jase
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    If it's set speakers to Large make sure the SW mode is set to LFE+MAIN or change them all back to Small, SW mode to LFE.

    That's not uncommon. I need mine up to -10db for HD-DVD's but quite happy to run SD discs at -15db/-20db.

    You need to go into the Parameter Check option in the Auto Setup EQ menu. You can then see a rough graphical representation of what it's done for each EQ mode. It's not exact so only use it as a guide.
     
  6. The WB

    The WB
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    You know I have never had a problem with audessey.I did it again when I upgraded my speakers and it came 100% correct again.It got all my cross over frequencies exact,it got all my speaker types exact,Im lucky to have the green light again and it sounds awesome and there is no lack of bass.I personally think its the way the mic is positioned,I would not follow the book at as it is wrong.With eq side of things you decide what sound is best for you. Cheers!
     
  7. Donkey99

    Donkey99
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    I'm suspicious that it has rated all my speakers to large and crossover to 40hz
     
  8. Jules

    Jules
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    Hey Donkey99, I just wired up my new A1XVA today... and I'm totally thrilled with it.

    I've posted a bit more in a thread I started a few days ago.

    Welcome to the club!
     
  9. Donkey99

    Donkey99
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    Hi Jules,

    I was looking forward to seeing you post after playing with the XVA. How do you find it compared to the SE? Did you go with Audyssey settings or your own?

    :thumbsup:

    PS it is an absolute monster isn't it!?
     
  10. Jules

    Jules
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    Not played with Audessey yet. I'll probably do that tomorrow, however I'd be very suprised if it's better than my 'tuned by ear' settings.

    I wasn't sure I should have sold the (K)A1SE after trying the A11XVA.
    But the A1XVA is definately better than both.

    Worth the massive investment? Honestly...compared to the old (K)A1SE, probbaly not. But I had to sell the A1SE first, and by then it was too late!
    The only thing good enough to replace it has turned out be the A1XVA.

    It's good to have people on here to talk to about this rare amplifier, and even better when you can talk to someone who has bought one at exactly the same time.

    Got to go now though.... my back needs resting.
    Be back to tomorrow.:)
     
  11. Jules

    Jules
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    Woah, this amplifier sure gets hot quickly!

    It has 12cm of space above to breathe in an open backed cabinet, but still it gets hot.... not warm, hot!

    I'd like to attach a small fan at the back of the cabinet to blow the hot air accross the top of the amplifier and out at the front.
    Anyone know where I can get a 'silent' fan for the job?
     
  12. Jase

    Jase
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  13. Jules

    Jules
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    Yeah, a couple of quiet PC fans are probably ideal screwed to the back of the cabinet.
    How do you power them though? They need a 5v supply don't they.

    I was looking for something I could plug into the 240v AC outlet on the back of the A1XVA so it will stop and start with the amp.

    Would a regular transformer with a selectable voltage output be ok if I cut off the end and joined the wires to those on the fans?
     
  14. Donkey99

    Donkey99
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    Jules - How about finding some 12v fans and using one of the 12v triggers the amp has?:thumbsup:
     
  15. Jules

    Jules
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    That sounds and excellent idea. Do the triggers supply a permanent voltage though? I thought (maybe wrongly) that they were momentary trigger voltages for devices that are also connected to a mains supply.
     
  16. Mr Incredible

    Mr Incredible
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    The triggers do supply a permanent voltage but the amperage will not be enough to drive a fan. I've set mine up using a relay switch.

    TBH you would be better getting a 12V mains adapter and one of those Smart Plugs which will sense when your amp is on or off and switch a socket on or off. It's OneClick power adapter and Maplins have the plugin version, as opposed to the extension lead version.

    EDIT:

    Link to Maplin Oneclick adapter plug thingymajig.

    http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=97206&doy=29m4&C=SO&U=strat15
     
  17. Jules

    Jules
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    Thanks, I'll look into that.

    Back to Audessey...
    Well unlike the A11XVA is got my speaker sizes rignt (THX small) and the EQ didn't suck out all the bass.

    However, I'm still firmly of the opinion that these auto setup routines are a waste of time.
    The speaker levels were wrong (both my ears and my SPL meter agree), and the room EQ then tried to compensate for it.

    If you set the levels to where they should be, hey presto... it sounds better with room EQ switched OFF.

    So for me, Audessey will be left switched OFF permanently. I may even re-initialise the processor so that no Audessey measurements are in the memory and it can't be activated accidentally.
     
  18. JH4

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    Interesting that people say their A1XV-A run so hot. I have had mine on for several hours now and it's just 39 Deg C on the top plate. I am just listening to TV at normal volume in stereo, so I guess loud music or a film in 5.1 would heat it up a lot more, but just wondering whether it's because I'm not using all the Amps, that it runs so cool - just 5 of them are connected. I would assume that the Amps not configured would be switched off, thus keeping the whole box cooler. Am I right ?
    Second : I have never tried Audyssey, I have always thought it may attempt to compensate for a "peaky" room with a lot of flat surfaces, where certain frequencies will bounce around and interact with each other in a complex way, but my listening room is not really like that. There are a lot of soft furnishings which eliminate most echo effects. Surely Audyssey will never 'calibrate' flat to you're own ears either, since the mic cannot know what frequency response your ears have. How does it know what high frequency drop-off you suffer from, for example, or if you are deaf to certain frequencies because of the type of work you do - maybe in a noisy environment ? Also, most ears cannot hear much over 18Khz when you get into your 30s, 40s. I used to test my hearing frequently at work and could hear up to 20Khz, but not anymore ! How does Audyssey know this, and compensate by boosting these frequencies, or am I missing something here ? Maybe I'm wrong in both these thoughts !
    I would be happy to hear other's opinions.
     
  19. Jase

    Jase
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    Well, I'm using mine as a Processor so therefore not using it's amp section at all and it still runs hot.

    Got nothing to lose by giving it a try. If you don't like the results then leave it off as Jules has done. :)
     
  20. Paul_thx

    Paul_thx
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    It can't compensate for variations in your own hearing response, and neither would you want it to. It's true that with age our ears become much less responsive to high frequencies. By the time we get into our 50's, it's not uncommon for our highest audible frequency to have dropped to as low as 10khz. This sounds like a hell of a lot as it would seem like it's half of our 20hz-20khz hearing response we started out with. In actual fact, it's just the top octave of almost 10. Anyway, if we EQ'd everything to suit our own hearing response, then that would be a deviation from how we normally perceive sounds. Bear in mind that the human hearing response is far from flat anyway. For example, our response to low frequencies is far worse than our response to frequencies within the 1-5khz range where most human speech falls (google for 'Fletcher Munsen Curves' for more info). To equalise something to give our ears a textbook 'flat' response would give a very unusual sound indeed - very bass heavy with hardly anything in the mids. Therefore a sound system which is set up to give a uniform response irrespective of human hearing, will sound correct.

    Imagine listening to a person talking in the room, whilst simultaneously making a recording of it. If you then played it back and decided to boost and cut frequencies here and there, it would no longer sound like the original voice you just heard. You've added coloration to the sound and moved away from what would otherwise be an accurate reproduction. EQing a sound system to allow for environmental factors is good because it compensates for factors such as room furnishings and acoustics, which cause a deviation from a flat playback response. Basically, the goal should be to get the most accurate sound possible to the original recording at your listening position. Your ears can then do what they normally do when you're listening to natural sounds. Hence, a natural sounding response.
     
  21. Jules

    Jules
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    I've just ordered a 92mm Acoustifan with dust protection.
    These are apparently very quiet, long lasting and will run from 5v to be almost silent.

    To power it I'm going to use a variable output transformer set to 5v.
    I'm then going to suspend the fan centrally above the amp from the shelf above.

    For the time being I'm going to switch it on/off manually to see how it performs.

    Having looked into using the 12v triggers from the amp, it would seam this is a non starter. They only deliver 250mA, where the fan draws around 800mA.
     
  22. Mr Incredible

    Mr Incredible
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    That's why I used a switching relay triggered by the amp which in turn switched the 12V to the 2 x 120mm fans.

    This is the relay I used from Maplins.

    I have the pin out diagram from Maplins so I just soldered up some cabling I ripped out of a bit of Cat5 cabling!!
     
  23. Jules

    Jules
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    Is this an easy job? Does the pin diagram come with this component?
    I'd really like to tackle this.

    Am I right in thinking that 2 legs of the relay will need connecting to the 2 wires from the amp's trigger output (just snip the end of a 3.5mm plug right?), and 2 more legs of the relay will intercept 1 wire from the output side of my mains transformer?

    I'm not averse to dabbling in electronics, but that's probably down to ignorance rather than knowledge. Any help you can give with this would be very much appreciated.

    Thanks.
     
  24. Mr Incredible

    Mr Incredible
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    THe pin-out diagram can be found in this document:
    http://relays.tycoelectronics.com/datasheets/d2n.pdf#search=%22type 47 relay"

    Correct!

    If you can do simple soldering, and as you appear to have grasped the circuit diagrams for the switching and "power" circuits, you'll be fine. I did buy one of the base plates in which the relay is sat, because the base plate had longer "legs" to solder to.

    For a few pounds I thought it was worth it, and it works 100%

    I have two fans running along side each other and I left the speed controllers in the circuit as well so I could adjust the speed to the optimum cooling with minimal noise.
     
  25. Stuart Wright

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    I installed my A1XVA yesterday and ran the Audyssey pretty much right away.
    Neglected to turn off the aircon first, but it's not a problem running the auto setup again.
    Used a cymbal stand to hold the mic in the right position.
    It incorrectly identified my front L+R as large so I changed them back. I'd feel happier if it got them right.
    Listening to the Saving Private Ryan chapters I normally use (the obvious ones), I found the bass to be at least as punchy as I'm used to. In fact I heard a fast burst of 4 or 5 big guns being fired (bass thumps) which I had never heard before.
    For me the alternative to using the Audyssey settings is employing an explert to come in and set the room up for me. I'm not qualified to do it. I have tinitis, after all.
    So I'm quite happy to rely on the Audyssey settings in principle and in practise.
     
  26. Jules

    Jules
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    I've now succesfully got my fan running at 7.5v via the relay / trigger out technique. Thanks.:thumbsup:

    I have the fan suspended via 2 rubber bands attached to a couple of little screws at the back of the cabinet, so there's no vibration noise whatsoever.

    At 6v the fan didn't seam to move much air, and at 12v it was audible.
    So its running at 7.5v where it is still silent but does allow a very gentle breeze accross the top of the amp.

    If I could have fit a 120mm fan in there it would have been better, but this will have to be enough. It's better than no fan at all and does look to be keeping the amp from getting really hot.
     
  27. Mr Incredible

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    Glad it worked for you!
     
  28. Jules

    Jules
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    I Watched King Kong last night on HD DVD, and by the end of it the amplifier was still pretty hot.
    It seams my single 92mm fan is not going to be enough for those hot summer nights.

    So I've just ordered 2 x 120mm fans and will make them fit somehow.
    If absolutely necessary, I may even use the 92mm fan aswell!
    Only trouble is, I think I may need a much more powerful transformer to drive them.

    As brilliant as the A1XVA is, the heat really is a bit troublesome.
     
  29. JH4

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    Have you tried just letting the internal fans do their work ? It may be that your external fans are not allowing the internal thermostat to switch on the fans inside at the correct temp. Just a thought. I don't think it's a real problem though, as this amp is designed to run hot, after all. Think of all those Watts being dissipated !
     
  30. Jules

    Jules
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    Its probably ok now, but in the summer the AV room gets very warm.
    I doubt the amplifier would cope without some fan assisted cooling inside the cabinet.

    Anyway, could somebody confirm my mathematics please.
    I've just wondered if I got it wrong, and it it could be possible to drive the fans directly from amp's 12v trigger output.

    I remember from my physics lessons (all those years ago) that
    'I' (current) = 'P' (power) x V (volts).
    Therefore, if a fan uses 1.5Watts at 12 volts, then the current required is
    1.5 / 12 = 0.125. i.e. 125mA.

    Given that the trigger outlets on the A1XVA supply 250mA, then it should be fine..... shouldn't it?
     

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