AVC-A1SE - what we want for this or next upgrade

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by MarkB, Oct 31, 2001.

  1. MarkB

    MarkB
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    Over on the AVC-A1SE/AVR-5800 information forum Mark K started a thread asking what we would like to see in the upgrade. Here is a list of things that would be nice. Anyone got any other ideas?

    Confirmed

    > DPL II;
    > DTS 24/96;
    > Adjustable crossover;
    > Dolby Headphone;
    > On screen volume display;
    > Adjustable crossover;

    What we would like (either in this upgrade, the next upgrade or on a new unit)

    > Ability to engage DPL II and DTS Neo:6 on digital inputs;
    > THX Ultra2;
    > Lip sync adjustment;
    > Configurable Phase control for each speaker + sub;
    > Renaming of source names;
    > Volume levels, Speaker configuration and Tone to be memorised for each input source and/or surround mode combination;
    > New reprinted and updated full size manual;
    > To be given a new name, i.e. AVC-A1X / AVC-A1SR;
    > New door with new logos;
    > Ability to flash update the unit from the RS232 port;
    > Enhanced status on screen display – the resolution (kHz) and the word length (bit) of the digital input for DD, dts & PCM;
    > Picture in picture;
    > 8 CH EXT-IN assignable to sources in a menu - like digital connections;
    > COMPONENT IN assignable to sources in a menu;
    > 8 CH EXT IN (1) to be reconfigured as a power amp pre-in (switchable in menu);
    > 8 CH EXT IN (2) and 8 CH PRE-OUT to be reconfigured for adaptor loop mode (graphic equalizer etc) (switchable in menu);
    > 8 CH EXT-IN "8 CH Direct", "8 CH Pure Direct" and "8 CH Input" bass/multichannel management modes;
    > Transcoder capability – Composite/S-Video/Component conversion;
    > Parental front face control lock-out from remote (have a 1 year old daughter who's as infatuated with it as I am!);
    > Another 2 x SUB PRE-OUT connectors;
    > Multizone (1 & 2) S-Video and composite output connectors;
    mark
     
  2. chicken balti

    chicken balti
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    How about a revised owners manual that doesn't require a degree in advanced Klingon to make it readable?
     
  3. Jase

    Jase
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    How about making the upgrade free!:D
     
  4. Reiner

    Reiner
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    Picture in picture - how does this work for an AV amp? :confused:
     
  5. MarkB

    MarkB
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    View one video source as a mini picture inside the main one.
    Mark
     
  6. Reiner

    Reiner
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    I know what PiP is, but how should it work in an AV amp? The inputs are more or less passive, i.e. just switched. Mixing another pic into one input would require some electronics.

    So far I have only seen PiP on TVs, some VCRs and maybe harddisk recorders but never heard of any AV amp which can do this (or that anyone wants this kind of feature for his amp).
     
  7. MarkB

    MarkB
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    Reiner
    Perhaps when the video is transmitted in the digital domain using whatever digital signal path they eventually decide upon, it could be implemented then.
    Or maybe not – it was just a thought.
    I used to use it (not very often admittedly) but I can't now as all my video goes through the amp and not into the telly.
    mark
     
  8. Reiner

    Reiner
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    Surely it's technically possible but still I find this rather unusual for an AV amp to do.
    Anyhow, you still can use PiP if you have two different outputs from the source, so one cable (e.g. S-Video) goes through the amp while the other one (e.g. RGB or Composite) goes directly to the TV - given there are enough and corresponding inputs available.
    That's how I "solved" this problem as my TV also supports PiP ...
     
  9. chicken balti

    chicken balti
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    Cant understand why anyone would want a PIP function on an AV amp. If it was me I'd probably use the faility, er... never! I have PIP and PAP on my RPTV and I have used it once in three years and that was only to check it worked when the TV was delivered.

    A full feature list is one thing, but pointless additions I can live without. At the ned of the day I just want to switch on and enjoy great pictures and sound. I'll leave the 'extras' to those who can't live without them.
     
  10. MarkB

    MarkB
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    Thanks for your input.

    It might be a daft idea to you – does that mean, then, that it is daft for everyone?

    Mark Levingson AV gear has a TFT monitor on the front for monitoring a different source to the main display. Do you think that's pointless too?

    Having said that I just copied a list (actually a couple of lists from different forums), I did not alter it. PIP would most likely be just an expensive and mostly pointless exercise as you say.
    I did use it a few times, usually it's more trouble than it's worth.

    Mark
     
  11. Matt F

    Matt F
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    What about more flexible bass management? Is the new software going to allow different bass roll-off frequencies to be set for different speakers i.e. 50Hz or 60Hz for the fronts and 80Hz for the centre and surrounds?

    This would seem to make sense as many people have left/right floorstanders that can go a lot lower than 80Hz but not right down to the 20Hz that is sent to them if you set them to "large".

    My TAG AVR32 currently has this shortcoming - sure you can select 50, 80 or 120Hz but you can't mix and match. It doesn't bother me because I have THX speakers but if I got a nice pair of, say, KEF Reference 1-2s, I'd have to either roll the bass off at 80Hz (in line with my centre and surrounds) or set them to large, neither or which would be as good as giving them a 50Hz roll-off.

    So, come on Denon and TAG McLaren - make your bass management software more flexible!
     
  12. chicken balti

    chicken balti
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    MarkB,

    Does PIP improve picture quality? No!
    Does PIP improve sound quality? No!

    Is it possible that some people may find this a useful feature on an AV amp? Yes!
    Do I want to waste my own money on something I will never use? No!

    It's horses for courses and I have nothing against anyone who wants these features, all I'm saying is I don't want them because anything you don't use is NOT, in my estimation, an improvement. I defy anyone to justify the addition of such a feature as being more beneficial than a 'real world' picture and sound improvement. If you can, then I'll gladly admit I'm wrong.

    Can't be fairer than that.:p
     
  13. Reiner

    Reiner
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    Given that no AV amps alters (hopefully) nor improves the picture quality this feature should be limited to the display device.
    Nothing against the feature itself but on an AV amp as useless as those mini LCD screens seen on a handfull of VCRs before if you allow me to make this comparision.

    That said I have an AV amp with zillions of DPS modi, never use them but paid for it ... though I don't really care as all the other features were somewhat important and the performance obviously justified the purchase.

    Anyhow, if someone wants to pay for those features if they are offered then that's fine with me but it would be good if there are other, lesser priced models without them so consumers do have a choice.
     
  14. chicken balti

    chicken balti
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    Reiner,

    You make a very valid point. Why is it that a top performing amp (or anything else for that matter) usually has a lot of fairly useless features added in order to justify its high price? Imagine an A1SE with nothing more than a volume control and a source selector with access to the same from the remote plus one or two other settings (DD, DTS, THX etc.etc.) which can be selected via the OSD. This would be a bare bones amp, you know, the one all A1SE owners use for 95% of the time, BUT with all the high quality electronics still in place to ensure the sound and picture quality remains intact. These things never happen, there must be a huge market for such amps, so whats the problem?

    Just to qualify your comments about AV amps altering picture quality. There are many that slightly degrade the video signal on their journey through the amp, the best inflict no such gremlins on the picture, none will ever improve the signal. But if money spent on useless features such as PIP (only my opinion) was diverted to ensuring good quality video and audio signal paths with little or no degradation, wouldn't that be infinitely more preferable to something you may never use?

    The cop out here is that an expensive amp such as the A1SE will already have high performance audio and video stages as standard, but this would bring me back to the concept of the same amp with cut down features, same high quality, at a more affordable price. I own an A1SE and all I do is switch on watch and listen, like most people probably do. The only time I drop the front panel is if I want to plug headphones in. I rest my case.
     
  15. MarkB

    MarkB
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    Reiner, Mr Balti,
    Valid points regarding the picture degradation – I'm not advocating features for no reason, when the amp/receiver/processor has an on-screen menu system, the system would need electronics to display the image with text. If the addition of the PIP was not expensive and could be completely by-passed with the title generator, I can't see the problem.
    You are probably right – but it's an idea only.
    I use my TV simply as a monitor. I have one SCART going into it with the sound off. It has two tuners and PAP which I never use, simply because the switching point has moved from the TV to the AMP. As the amp is the hub of the system where all video and audio processes converge, it is now the logical place.

    Matt F
    The entry "Configurable Phase control for each speaker + sub;" should have been "Configurable Low Pass Filter and Phase control for each speaker + sub".

    Mark
     
  16. uncle eric

    uncle eric
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    " On screen volume control"
    Thats a good one. Very usefull if your gear is in the back of the room like mine.
    However there is one problem.
    I run my dvd player (Cinematrix moded Sony 7700 straight in to my Barco via 5 BNCs).
    Oh well, I guess I will have to switch over imput 2 (SVideo) on my PJ to see what the Volume numbers are. (I use the SVideo in/out for my Video switching for things like Sky Digital, and SVHS etc.

    Eric
     

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