AV receivers

af88

Active Member
Hi guys,

I’ve been looking at new AVRs and it seems there’s a problem with hdmi boards on quite a few of them that they can’t do 8k or 4k120, 25gb/s or 40gb/s and some reviews makes this to be a big thing.
So a few quick questions
Why is it so important that they do this?
Surely if you connect device like ps5 or Xbox directly to Tv and use the arc/earc to send sound to receivers it negates the problem with video pass through.
Is it more beneficial to wire these to avr first then to tv as that to me adds an extra link in the chain before the video hits the screen which could cause sync issues?
Currently like my ps4 I would hook up hdmi to tv and use the optical output to amp so it removes any extra links or processing in the chain but current devices like ps5 or Apple TV doesn’t have an optical output or any other output other than that 1 hdmi connector.
Would like to hear your thoughts.
 

rccarguy2

Distinguished Member
Because e-arc isn't perfect, can have issues. Also not all TV pass all audio streams.

Another method is the source has two hdmi out , one is video the other is audio, but that makes a right hassle if you have lots of sources
 

Captain Ron

Distinguished Member
Everything into AVR and one HDMI to the TV with arc return for the TV apps is the way I roll with my Denon. All works great. Now admittedly I don't have a setup suitable for using all the latest PS5 or XBOX-X AV features. I would need to update my AVR HDMI board and replace my TV as well if I went for either of those consoles and wished to integrate them into my current setup rather than install them in a different room and wanted to use the full speed AV modes.
 

af88

Active Member
You would think arc/earc being new ish tech will be more reliable or become more reliable in time.
I suppose you are either adding a link in the chain on audio side using arc or adding an extra link in the video signal chain to pass through video signal from avr.
I have a ps5 with a Sony xh95. This is running through to an old Yamaha dsp-a5 amp. Amp is connected via optical cable from tv to amp. Only issue I’ve had doing this is with Disney plus only passing stereo through the tv optical so that’s why I’m looking at new receivers with hdmi.
I have no interest in 4k120 or 8k gaming for now but my trusty Yamaha has lasted well over 10 years and still sounds great so would like it’s replacement to be future proofed for things like 8k and last as long.
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
@af88 - there are key differences between ARC and eARC.

ARC is limited to compressed audio and relies upon CEC whereas eARC can carry uncompressed audio and is not reliant on CEC.

Source > eARC TV > eARC Amp is a very viable option and reduces the reliance on the HDMI architecture of the AVR to handle the latest video options and keep up to date with new video options, though as others highlight some folk run into issues such as Lip-sync with current eARC implementations with certain kit combinations.

If you do not require some of the Features HDMI 2.1 makes possible such as 8K, VRR and higher frame rates then the issues you are reading about with early release AVR's which touted support for these new formats is largely immaterial and connecting Source > AVR > TV is just as valid a connectivity plan for you for now but definitely something to think about if you plan to keep the Amp for a while.

There will always be external options which can allow you to cater for all of the latest video formats and retain your 'legacy' audio devices - HDFury Vertex³ (VRRoom) | Official UK Supplier | Next Day UK Shipping

Joe
 

af88

Active Member
Thanks for all the replies. It’s greatly appreciated.
Another quick question, is there anything to be gained from swapping my current Yamaha dsp-a5 to a newer atmos enabled receiver like the newer Yamaha a4x or a6x keeping my current misson 5.1 speaker setup with a paradigm power sub? Not looking at adding anymore speakers like ceiling or side speakers etc, divorce proceedings will need to start before I can add more speakers.
Another thing is how new amps or receivers are rated. It says something like 100w for 2ch but what is it when running 5 ch? My old amp as far as I know is 70w x 5ch which sounds beefier than 100w for 2ch.
 

rccarguy2

Distinguished Member
Thanks for all the replies. It’s greatly appreciated.
Another quick question, is there anything to be gained from swapping my current Yamaha dsp-a5 to a newer atmos enabled receiver like the newer Yamaha a4x or a6x keeping my current misson 5.1 speaker setup with a paradigm power sub? Not looking at adding anymore speakers like ceiling or side speakers etc, divorce proceedings will need to start before I can add more speakers.
Another thing is how new amps or receivers are rated. It says something like 100w for 2ch but what is it when running 5 ch? My old amp as far as I know is 70w x 5ch which sounds beefier than 100w for 2ch.

New AV amps will have hd decoding Dolby hd and DTS master audio

You'll need to higher range to get more power and they only rated for one or two channels
 

af88

Active Member
New AV amps will have hd decoding Dolby hd and DTS master audio

You'll need to higher range to get more power and they only rated for one or two channels
At the moment I’m running the tv to amp through optical cable and everything going to tv by hdmi so a lot of decoding is done by tv I’m assuming.
Only issues is Disney plus and everything else is fine. Only reason looking a new avr or amp is arc/earc from tv and most newer devices has no optical out for 5.1. I’m happy with sound quality with current setup so don’t want to lose that but just want some of the newer tech to work more seamlessly.
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
Replacing your current Yamaha with a New Yamaha AVR will add:
YPAO Room correction
The ability to decode HD Audio via HDMI or eARC assuming your Source device and Content/Subscriptions support HD streams!
Lower power consumption.
App control
Streamed music services
Multi Zone capabilities.

Power Output is a pretty open specification and unless you have a very large room and or very inefficient loudspeakers you need a lot less power than you imagine/were convinced by the marketing dept that you once required :)

Which Mission loudspeakers do you have?

For most folk switching loudspeakers has the largest impact on the sonic signature of a s system - switching the AVR tends to be about gaining New features unless your budget allows for a substantial upgrade in the 'grade' of AVR you consider.

Joe
 

af88

Active Member
Replacing your current Yamaha with a New Yamaha AVR will add:
YPAO Room correction
The ability to decode HD Audio via HDMI or eARC assuming your Source device and Content/Subscriptions support HD streams!
Lower power consumption.
App control
Streamed music services
Multi Zone capabilities.

Power Output is a pretty open specification and unless you have a very large room and or very inefficient loudspeakers you need a lot less power than you imagine/were convinced by the marketing dept that you once required :)

Which Mission loudspeakers do you have?

For most folk switching loudspeakers has the largest impact on the sonic signature of a s system - switching the AVR tends to be about gaining New features unless your budget allows for a substantial upgrade in the 'grade' of AVR you consider.

Joe

Got the
mission m7ds rears
M7c1 centre
M73 floorstanding fronts
And a paradigm ps1000 sub

I’m still happy with the speakers and sound profile even for music.
It is really the new features like earc, Dolby hd/dts hd that I want. Not too fussed about atmos as I don’t want to add more speakers.
Think the Yamaha a4x is a nice simple 5.1 receiver but seems lower powered than my current a5. Stepping up to the a6x seems a nicer option or maybe try and get a deal on the older models.
So many options out there and so difficult to choose, and what happened to just getting an amplifier. Don’t need all the stuff that comes with receiver like radio/dab.
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
Loudspeakers - your Mission system is relatively sensitive so not a big load on your AVR and if they are a good match for your room and room layout you will be looking to spend a fairy decent budget to replace them with something more capable.

'Less is More' - unfortunately the market dictated that 'more for less' was the way to go for entry level and mid range AVR products, you have to go higher end to get a more 'simple' feature count with more emphasis on improving the 'audio' playback of the input signal.

New vs. Old - folk with decent quality 'legacy' gear have a big question to ask/answer unless they go fairly high up the range when considering a new AVR. Ideally you would be able to compare New vs. Old at home in your system.

HD Audio - you have to consider how much of the content you view/listen too is delivered in the higher bandwidth formats.

Immersive audio (Atmos/Auro3D/DTS:X) is not really relevant unless you plan to add in additional Loudspeakers!

ARC is potentially all you require for TV Tuner and on-board Apps - you only require eARC if you plan to connect Source devices to the TV rather than to the AVR.

Joe
 

af88

Active Member
What receiver would you recommend with my setup? Budget around £5-600.
Was looking at the Yamaha a4x or a6x and denon x2700h on my shortlist. Any other worth considering?
Arc/earc is built in apps on the tv and external inputs are virgin tv box and ps5.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
What receiver would you recommend with my setup? Budget around £5-600.
Was looking at the Yamaha a4x or a6x and denon x2700h on my shortlist. Any other worth considering?
Arc/earc is built in apps on the tv and external inputs are virgin tv box and ps5.

You mean the RX-V6A not the A6 if you looking 600£ costing receiver. This model and V4 has 24gbps limitation with the hdmi connections while offering them more over Denon (3+1 / 4+1 vs 1+2). Yamaha was quite silent on this. Denon has already said they will introduce new models later this year and i believe Yamaha might too so think carefully how fast you need the unit.

 

af88

Active Member
You mean the RX-V6A not the A6 if you looking 600£ costing receiver. This model and V4 has 24gbps limitation with the hdmi connections while offering them more over Denon (3+1 / 4+1 vs 1+2). Yamaha was quite silent on this. Denon has already said they will introduce new models later this year and i believe Yamaha might too so think carefully how fast you need the unit.

Could be a good time to grab a bargain with the older models when they launch new models.
The 8k or 4k120 is not a deal breaker as it only really applies to gaming for me where I can connect ps5 to tv and use arc/earc.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Could be a good time to grab a bargain with the older models when they launch new models.
The 8k or 4k120 is not a deal breaker as it only really applies to gaming for me where I can connect ps5 to tv and use arc/earc.

True. It might take some time for the new model announcement, but if you not in hurry then great. Onkyo and Pioneer new models might arrive in UK soon too. I`m a Yamaha fan, but i feel the X2700H is slightly better overall to V6A. With Yammy i would aim for Aventage model RX-A4 and Denon X3700H is known often as sweet spot too due to better room eq + preouts. However in your case if you have affordable speakers then it`s questionable to spend big bucks for receiver.

X2700H over V6A: Slight performance edge due to larger capacitors, 40gbps hdmi board still way to go future in mind, Denon`s Audussey comes with subwoofer eq which is beneficial for battling boomy bass.
 

af88

Active Member
True. It might take some time for the new model announcement, but if you not in hurry then great. Onkyo and Pioneer new models might arrive in UK soon too. I`m a Yamaha fan, but i feel the X2700H is slightly better overall to V6A. With Yammy i would aim for Aventage model RX-A4 and Denon X3700H is known often as sweet spot too due to better room eq + preouts. However in your case if you have affordable speakers then it`s questionable to spend big bucks for receiver.

X2700H over V6A: Slight performance edge due to larger capacitors, 40gbps hdmi board still way to go future in mind, Denon`s Audussey comes with subwoofer eq which is beneficial for battling boomy bass.
Think i got model numbers mixed up with the Yamahas. Was looking at the v4a and v6a not the a4a or a2a as they are way more than the £5-600 budget. Denon x2700 was one that popped up in a review I was reading when looking at the Yamahas and similar price range. It’s good to know it’s a good one.
I’m also a Yamaha fan, think I just figured out that my a5 has been running reliably for probably 15 years plus and survived 2 house moves so would like that kinda reliability.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Think i got model numbers mixed up with the Yamahas. Was looking at the v4a and v6a not the a4a or a2a as they are way more than the £5-600 budget. Denon x2700 was one that popped up in a review I was reading when looking at the Yamahas and similar price range. It’s good to know it’s a good one.
I’m also a Yamaha fan, think I just figured out that my a5 has been running reliably for probably 15 years plus and survived 2 house moves so would like that kinda reliability.

Suprisingly Richer Sounds / Peter Tyson gives extended 6year warranty for X2700H specifically, but for Yamaha RX-V you to have pay extra (65£) to get it, warranty is 2-3years depending of shop. But yeah Yamaha is well known from reliability, i have one orange display unit in use from the times of sword and stone. 😄

AVForums tested the next model from RX-V6A which is almost same in reality so what you read from this one applies to V6A aswell. If those things i listed aren´t that important then by all means consider the Yammy too. I`m intrested how much the prices will drop and what the new models have against old ones. This V6A model came late 2020 so i would be suprised if we don´t see new one as the lower ranges often are updated every year (mostly few extra feature).
 

af88

Active Member
Suprisingly Richer Sounds / Peter Tyson gives extended 6year warranty for X2700H specifically, but for Yamaha RX-V you to have pay extra (65£) to get it, warranty is 2-3years depending of shop. But yeah Yamaha is well known from reliability, i have one orange display unit in use from the times of sword and stone. 😄

AVForums tested the next model from RX-V6A which is almost same in reality so what you read from this one applies to V6A aswell. If those things i listed aren´t that important then by all means consider the Yammy too. I`m intrested how much the prices will drop and what the new models have against old ones. This V6A model came late 2020 so i would be suprised if we don´t see new one as the lower ranges often are updated every year (mostly few extra feature).

My trusty a5 has the old school orange display and still works, even the motorised volume knob still works, only problem I have is some buttons on the remote has stopped working.
With global chip shortages for everything it doesn’t surprise me newer models are taking longer. I would think newer ones will be more like a refresh, more likely fix the hdmi boards and maybe up the power. Can’t see it being a drastic change. This is why I think the current/older models will go for cheaper and could be a bargain if new features aren’t a priority. Think something like the v6a could be a good value buy if it drops in price closer to the v4a.
Maybe have a quick nosey on the classifieds and internet to see if any good deals around. I like the idea of 6 year warranty on the denon although from experience Yamaha are known to be bulletproof.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Only your PS will have the ability to deliver HD audio. Virgin is limited to SD 5.1 audio as are all streaming services in the UK. Broadcasters and the likes of Sky, Netflix, Amazon, et al use Dolby Digital Plus SD 5.1 as a maximum.
 

af88

Active Member
Only your PS will have the ability to deliver HD audio. Virgin is limited to SD 5.1 audio as are all streaming services in the UK. Broadcasters and the likes of Sky, Netflix, Amazon, et al use Dolby Digital Plus SD 5.1 as a maximum.
Think that’s the problem I have at the moment it’s the Dolby digital plus from Disney. My current setup just doesn’t decode it so I just get stereo. All the others work fine in Dolby digital 5.1.
This is the main reason for upgrading/updating the amp/receiver. More and more devices don’t have optical or coaxial output for audio so reliance is on hdmi or arc/earc to get 5.1 or atmos.
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
'What receiver would you recommend with my setup? Budget around £5-600' - my recommendation is to ensure anything you consider in that price range has the option to return it and move up a level or two if you are hoping to hear a significant upgrade over your current AVR.

Joe
 

af88

Active Member
'What receiver would you recommend with my setup? Budget around £5-600' - my recommendation is to ensure anything you consider in that price range has the option to return it and move up a level or two if you are hoping to hear a significant upgrade over your current AVR.

Joe

I will be happy with same or slight improvement on sound quality as I’m not changing speakers I wouldn’t expect ground changing sound improvements.
Really looking at extra features like arc, hdmi etc over my existing a5.
Main thing is there’s no reduction or deterioration of sound quality to what I have already.
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
Looking long term I'd aim for an eARC enabled AVR if you are looking for New features over your current AVR and something which is a good match, feature wise, to your TV.

As you say hopefully the overall balance of the audio is on par with your current AVR when you make the change.

Joe
 

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