AV Receiver Upgrade Denon vs Marantz vs Yamaha

obilby

Member
Hi Everyone

Looking for a bit of advice with regards to upgrading my current AV Receiver (hopefully to full proof it for 8k).
I've currently got a Denon AVR-x6200w and unfortunately the last couple of weeks its been behaving a bit oddly (two weeks ago I paid for the Auro upgrade, basically the update failed bricked it, however some how after 6 hours I managed to reset it but when listening to music/movies/games in Dolby Atmos and Dolby surround intermittently part of the audio has disappeared or gone very very quiet for about 10 second before coming back to normal, almost makes part of the audio track like listening to an instrumental version lol) Could that software update caused that issue? Kind of annoyed paying for the update and since then its gone weird!
Anyway sorry I digress.

Although the Denon's been good there are a few other models out there I'm interested in and wondering after 6 years if they would be a decent upgrade? The ones I'm interested in are the following...

Marantz SR7015,or SR8015 however it may be a tad too pricey
Denon AVR-X4700H or AVR-X6700H
Yamaha RX-A6A (when ever it comes out)

I mainly use the AV for Music with a bit of gaming and movies but mainly music. (actually quite liking the hi res and spatial audio from the Apple tv at the moment)
The speakers I use are Focal Chora 826-D x2 , Chora 806 x2, Centre & SVS Prime Elevation x2 5.1.4 setup.
On paper the SR7015 and X4700H doesn't sound as powerful as what I currently have but would that matter, would any of the above models be able to drive my speaker's with no issues? Would it be a lot quieter than my old one?

Sorry for all the questions just a bit bamboozled of what to go for.

Many thanks in advance Ollie :)
 

rccarguy2

Well-known Member
Upgrade from Denon 6000 series = AV pre power.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
The X4700 and the X6700 will have AL32 processing onboard which I was certainly a step forward from the AL24 found on the X6200. I also found moving from the X6200 to my current X6500 that there was better sound steering for film and TV use. I'm not into gaming so 8K and how HDMI 2.1 behaves is currently not on my radar.

I do consider my move to the X6500 to be a worthy upgrade, albeit small, from the X6200. More than that I bought it at the beginning of last year when prices were at their lowest, unlike today.

Music was very important to me and I was always disappointed with the X6200. As a result I bought a stereo amp with HT bypass to drive the front left and right for stereo music, I've never looked back. I have to say though that the multi channel music from the X6500 is very good indeed and an improvement, no doubt aided by AL32.

Bad time really for your X6200 to play up because you are going to have to pay full whack for the new amp, whatever you choose.
 

obilby

Member
The X4700 and the X6700 will have AL32 processing onboard which I was certainly a step forward from the AL24 found on the X6200. I also found moving from the X6200 to my current X6500 that there was better sound steering for film and TV use. I'm not into gaming so 8K and how HDMI 2.1 behaves is currently not on my radar.

I do consider my move to the X6500 to be a worthy upgrade, albeit small, from the X6200. More than that I bought it at the beginning of last year when prices were at their lowest, unlike today.

Music was very important to me and I was always disappointed with the X6200. As a result I bought a stereo amp with HT bypass to drive the front left and right for stereo music, I've never looked back. I have to say though that the multi channel music from the X6500 is very good indeed and an improvement, no doubt aided by AL32.

Bad time really for your X6200 to play up because you are going to have to pay full whack for the new amp, whatever you choose.
Is there much difference in the x4700 Vs the x6700 sound wise? Would the x4700 be powerfull enough for the speakers?
I know they have fixed the hdmi issues now but I'm sure I read somewhere (I think) there was a comprise to this? (Older chip or something)
Yes Very bad luck my current one packed up, more annoyed I paid £140 two weeks ago for the Auro Upgrade that caused this, trying to get hold of Denon to get my money back but proberly can't see that happening.
 

rccarguy2

Well-known Member
Is there much difference in the x4700 Vs the x6700 sound wise? Would the x4700 be powerfull enough for the speakers?
I know they have fixed the hdmi issues now but I'm sure I read somewhere (I think) there was a comprise to this? (Older chip or something)
Yes Very bad luck my current one packed up, more annoyed I paid £140 two weeks ago for the Auro Upgrade that caused this, trying to get hold of Denon to get my money back but proberly can't see that happening.
If you're concerned with power go dedicated.

Even a basic iota 7ch will trash flagship avrs in power, current, power supply, and uf.

A good high powered 7ch Poweramp will have 2kw-3kw power usage. A flagship avr with more channels will be around 900w. You do the math.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
@obilby

Contact Denon UK support to get your unit working like it should. Something fishy going on probably due to that update.

You didn´t mention anything about needing new features so the upgrade would be more or less waste of money as the internal changes are based on marketing hype rather than dramatic audible upgrade. Yamaha is the only one to have all inputs/outputs for full 2.1 spec. D&M products has only one input 2.1 (8K) and next summer Denon introduces new models low - up to X4800H ranges, new X6x00 model in 2023. This is the worst time to buy anything due to dirty high prices. Personally i wouldn`t change it yet if you get the issue fixed and the receiver working normally. That is quality made in Japan receiver.

Right side you see Email Us, click "get in touch" and describe the issue OR call them! Mention that you paid the Auro 3D upgrade, send a photo of your purchase for proof!
 

obilby

Member
If you're concerned with power go dedicated.

Even a basic iota 7ch will trash flagship avrs in power, current, power supply, and uf.

A good high powered 7ch Poweramp will have 2kw-3kw power usage. A flagship avr with more channels will be around 900w. You do the math.
I'm not sure if I need more power or not just that I didn't want to get something else that would not be as loud as what I've got if that makes sense or if my speakers are not getting enough power (not even sure I'm making sense now lol) the 6200w goes to a perfect dB of sound however have noticed the fan going on at times and worry it's struggling.
 

obilby

Member
@obilby

Contact Denon UK support to get your unit working like it should. Something fishy going on probably due to that update.

You didn´t mention anything about needing new features so the upgrade would be more or less waste of money as the internal changes are based on marketing hype rather than dramatic audible upgrade. Yamaha is the only one to have all inputs/outputs for full 2.1 spec. D&M products has only one input 2.1 (8K) and next summer Denon introduces new models low - up to X4800H ranges, new X6x00 model in 2023. This is the worst time to buy anything due to dirty high prices. Personally i wouldn`t change it yet if you get the issue fixed and the receiver working normally. That is quality made in Japan receiver.

Right side you see Email Us, click "get in touch" and describe the issue OR call them! Mention that you paid the Auro 3D upgrade, send a photo of your purchase for proof!
I was looking at upgrading anyway in the near future as I wanted to get 8k ready due to an upgrade with my TV and Xbox, however music is very important to me and wanted to know if there is better out there than what I've got as only upgraded to the focals a few months back. I have emailed Denon yesterday so still waiting for a reply, if there is an out of warranty cost to fix it I'm not sure what to do?
 

rccarguy2

Well-known Member
I'm not sure if I need more power or not just that I didn't want to get something else that would not be as loud as what I've got if that makes sense or if my speakers are not getting enough power (not even sure I'm making sense now lol) the 6200w goes to a perfect dB of sound however have noticed the fan going on at times and worry it's struggling.

There's simply more to it than just power it's the control of the speakers also.

Try adding a three channel amp.

If you're serious about 2ch music you wouldn't be using a Avr anyway you'd add a stereo integrated amp with HT bypass..

To upgrade on yours you would be looking at the 8500 which isn't cheap.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
I was looking at upgrading anyway in the near future as I wanted to get 8k ready due to an upgrade with my TV and Xbox, however music is very important to me and wanted to know if there is better out there than what I've got as only upgraded to the focals a few months back. I have emailed Denon yesterday so still waiting for a reply, if there is an out of warranty cost to fix it I'm not sure what to do?
How important is the Auro 3D for you? Is there much material for using it? Or do people mainly use the Auro 3D upmixer? I`m just thinking is it worth the salty price. The unit probably would work normally after hard factory reset / reverting back to some old firmware. Denon support should be able to help. I asked your problem from someone who knows Denons inside out (problems), i will post if he has some ideas.

You mentioned the fan coming on. Do you have plenty of ventilation for the unit on top and sides? Like about 5-10cm each three sides if it´s inside cabinet. Have you kept the impedance switch at 8ohm default? Have you set ECO mode On / Auto or is it Off?

Denon and Marantz as i mentioned has only one full spec 2.1 input and couple outputs, the rest inputs are 2.0 with some new 2.1 features for gamers. That is quite low for future proofing. However i believe Yamaha RX-A6A would be great alternative if you looking new device and especially more "musical" one. And all the connections would be 2.1 spec plus it wouldn´t be downgrade what you got now (Yammy 150w / Denon 140w) performance wise. Howver it´s still lot of money so i would first see if you get the Denon working.
 

obilby

Member
How important is the Auro 3D for you? Is there much material for using it? Or do people mainly use the Auro 3D upmixer? I`m just thinking is it worth the salty price. The unit probably would work normally after hard factory reset / reverting back to some old firmware. Denon support should be able to help. I asked your problem from someone who knows Denons inside out (problems), i will post if he has some ideas.

You mentioned the fan coming on. Do you have plenty of ventilation for the unit on top and sides? Like about 5-10cm each three sides if it´s inside cabinet. Have you kept the impedance switch at 8ohm default? Have you set ECO mode On / Auto or is it Off?

Denon and Marantz as i mentioned has only one full spec 2.1 input and couple outputs, the rest inputs are 2.0 with some new 2.1 features for gamers. That is quite low for future proofing. However i believe Yamaha RX-A6A would be great alternative if you looking new device and especially more "musical" one. And all the connections would be 2.1 spec plus it wouldn´t be downgrade what you got now (Yammy 150w / Denon 140w) performance wise. Howver it´s still lot of money so i would first see if you get the Denon working.
To be honest the Auro Upgrade was wasted as after getting it I thought it would work with my atmos setup (and it didn't as I have two front Dolby upfiring in the focals and 2 rear height, and to be beneficial it needs 4 height no upfiring) I thought it would basically upscale everything to an atmos like level, so completely miss read somewhere lol.

The Denon is in a bdi unit with vents top and bottom vent with about 10cm gap each side and 30cm above and fan come on when very loud just didn't notice it ever come on with my previous speakers (b&w mt50 sats).

Kept it at 8ohms believe eco is off.

I guess if it could be resolved at least I can sell it to fund a new one.

What's your opinion on Yamaha I've read the specs and it looks good and as you say full hdmi 2.1. I've always had Denon but have heard good things about Yamaha which is why the a6a looked good on paper, would you say it's more musical? as thats my main purpose and as odd as it is I love the music via all channels and especially some of the new spatial audio.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
To be honest the Auro Upgrade was wasted as after getting it I thought it would work with my atmos setup (and it didn't as I have two front Dolby upfiring in the focals and 2 rear height, and to be beneficial it needs 4 height no upfiring) I thought it would basically upscale everything to an atmos like level, so completely miss read somewhere lol.

The Denon is in a bdi unit with vents top and bottom vent with about 10cm gap each side and 30cm above and fan come on when very loud just didn't notice it ever come on with my previous speakers (b&w mt50 sats).

Kept it at 8ohms believe eco is off.

I guess if it could be resolved at least I can sell it to fund a new one.

What's your opinion on Yamaha I've read the specs and it looks good and as you say full hdmi 2.1. I've always had Denon but have heard good things about Yamaha which is why the a6a looked good on paper, would you say it's more musical? as thats my main purpose and as odd as it is I love the music via all channels and especially some of the new spatial audio.

Check that Eco isn´t set to "On", "Auto" is ok!
I got response from the person and he felt that the Auro upgrade isn´t the fault now. He recommended doing factory reset and sometimes doing it 5 times in a row has cured issue that didn´t go away otherwise. As strange as that may sound...

He also said that the fan shouldn´t normally come "on" with Denon as it must reach at least 158F/70C before powering on so he felt that there could be some bigger issue with your unit. Receiver should be nearly silent in day to day use.

Do you keep the bdi-unit door open when you use your gear? Naturally you shouldn´t "hide" the receiver when in use as i don´t think the vents would be enough to keep it cool if i get the full picture with the bdi unit.
 

obilby

Member
Check that Eco isn´t set to "On", "Auto" is ok!
I got response from the person and he felt that the Auro upgrade isn´t the fault now. He recommended doing factory reset and sometimes doing it 5 times in a row has cured issue that didn´t go away otherwise. As strange as that may sound...

He also said that the fan shouldn´t normally come "on" with Denon as it must reach at least 158F/70C before powering on so he felt that there could be some bigger issue with your unit. Receiver should be nearly silent in day to day use.

Do you keep the bdi-unit door open when you use your gear? Naturally you shouldn´t "hide" the receiver when in use as i don´t think the vents would be enough to keep it cool if i get the full picture with the bdi unit.
Just checked eco is off, it does get very hot at times, for normal use with TV and movies the fan doesn't come on at all just with some music at high levels. I do keep the door open during high use and also I don't have the back on on the bdi unit, there's also nothing on top of it either.

When I did the Auro Upgrade 20 mins in it went update failed (connection fail oe) then just keep turning on and off reconnecting then connection fail 01 it must of done this over 40+ times as it wouldn't even stop and become usable for just TV, I couldn't access anything, reset it various times and same thing and just out of the blue reset it again and it gone back to normal did the update again and worked then factory reset again and had the sound issues from then, reset again yesterday and the same but will try doing it 5 times. However still want to look at upgrading either the a6a, sr7015, sr8015 or x6700 but think the a6a with the connections could be a big plus, just no clue on Yamaha sound over Denon.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Just checked eco is off, it does get very hot at times, for normal use with TV and movies the fan doesn't come on at all just with some music at high levels. I do keep the door open during high use and also I don't have the back on on the bdi unit, there's also nothing on top of it either.

When I did the Auro Upgrade 20 mins in it went update failed (connection fail oe) then just keep turning on and off reconnecting then connection fail 01 it must of done this over 40+ times as it wouldn't even stop and become usable for just TV, I couldn't access anything, reset it various times and same thing and just out of the blue reset it again and it gone back to normal did the update again and worked then factory reset again and had the sound issues from then, reset again yesterday and the same but will try doing it 5 times. However still want to look at upgrading either the a6a, sr7015, sr8015 or x6700 but think the a6a with the connections could be a big plus, just no clue on Yamaha sound over Denon.

You can set the Eco mode to Auto it keeps the unit little bit cooler when you aren´t blasting loud and when you do it turns off (relay click). That is very sad to hear what you are experiencing. Hope the Denon UK answers your email tomorrow, if not then call them! I would probably just call them straight as i hate waiting the next emails. There is also hard reset (network card+microprocessor) if you want to try that, but i assume you have to install firmware then again.

1 - Turn off the power using ON/STANDBY.
2 - Simultaneously press/hold the: "UP/DOWN" arrow buttons on the front panel and then press the ON/STANDBY button on the front panel.
3 - Once the display starts flashing at intervals of about 1 second, release the two buttons (hold for at least 4-5 seconds).

** If in step 3 the display does not flash at intervals of about 1 second, start over from step 1.



No one has yet hear the new Yamahas apart from couple reviews which has been good (A8A). This is bigger change than normally for Yamaha models as between 10 year time they do big update which is now! They surely are reliable, one of the few brands to give 5year warranty also. Yamaha is known from musical instruments so they have some knowledge for sure, at least the two highest Aventage models has been praised for the musical side, both in reviews and by owners/members who has compared to other brands. I think the new range is going to take that further, there is longer interview clip with Yamaha rep if you want to learn everything from the A6A design/features etc. This is very intresting stuff so if you have extra time at some point then watch/listen it! :)

 

obilby

Member
You can set the Eco mode to Auto it keeps the unit little bit cooler when you aren´t blasting loud and when you do it turns off (relay click). That is very sad to hear what you are experiencing. Hope the Denon UK answers your email tomorrow, if not then call them! I would probably just call them straight as i hate waiting the next emails. There is also hard reset (network card+microprocessor) if you want to try that, but i assume you have to install firmware then again.

1 - Turn off the power using ON/STANDBY.
2 - Simultaneously press/hold the: "UP/DOWN" arrow buttons on the front panel and then press the ON/STANDBY button on the front panel.
3 - Once the display starts flashing at intervals of about 1 second, release the two buttons (hold for at least 4-5 seconds).

** If in step 3 the display does not flash at intervals of about 1 second, start over from step 1.



No one has yet hear the new Yamahas apart from couple reviews which has been good (A8A). This is bigger change than normally for Yamaha models as between 10 year time they do big update which is now! They surely are reliable, one of the few brands to give 5year warranty also. Yamaha is known from musical instruments so they have some knowledge for sure, at least the two highest Aventage models has been praised for the musical side, both in reviews and by owners/members who has compared to other brands. I think the new range is going to take that further, there is longer interview clip with Yamaha rep if you want to learn everything from the A6A design/features etc. This is very intresting stuff so if you have extra time at some point then watch/listen it! :)

That hard reset was the one that took it out of the 6 hour connection fail loop, I looked high and low for that at the time and came across that via some old website lol infact that's why it was proberly doing an update again after it turned back on as it was redownloading the original software, every other time I was just pressing info and back!

Think I will give them a call again tomorrow if I haven't heard anything back in the morning, thank you for the video link will have a look at that tonight
 

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