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AV Defeated - Where Now For The Lib Dems?

Rasczak

Distinguished Member
The AV Referendum has been overwhelming defeated. So the question must now be asked what will happen to the coalition? On 5 May the Lib Dems saw, in addition to defeat in the referendum, huge losses in local councils, obliteration in Scotland and reductions in Wales. The Party has collapsed across the political landscape and must now surely be re-considering it's position.

The trouble for the Lib Dems is they can't really leave the coalition without looking like sore losers. Furthermore leaving now would see them wiped out. But by contrast their electoral defeats weakens their electoral mandate and will frustrate Lib Dem influence within the coalition.

So, where now for the Lib Dems?
 

Steven

Senior Moderator
Nick Clegg personally will try and hang on bitterly until May 2015, when he will suffer a disastrous election defeat in his Sheffield Hallam seat and be forced to resign as party leader

The Lib Dem party itself will be devoting itself between the business of governing as the minority partner in the coalition and self-preservation

Self-preservation will necessarily involve a split between those who still back Nick Clegg and those who want a new leader

In short it is merely a question of when, not if, the Lib Dems are completely wiped out as a relevant force in the political landscape

Thanks
 
D

Deleted member 293381

Guest
To start with, the old Lib/Dem pot-boilers will come out in force - moaning and groaning.

The lid has been kept shut on these old potties up until now. They will be now be doing what they are good at: sniping from the darkness. Paddy Ashdown, for example, is VERY good at this.

Will Nick stay on as leader? Resign or a vote of no confidence be issued by the party?
 

Badger0-0

Distinguished Member
It's a major setback for them, isn't it?

I saw a quote elsewhere that suggested that the party has been set back 40 years and I'd probably agree.

But it's their own fault imo.
Their "Yes" argument was never put across convincingly (fwiw, it was Paddy who convinced me to vote yes) on the whole, which led to total apathy.
I don't know what the turnout was, but I'd be surprised if it was higher than 40%.

Personally, I don't think that was the crippler though.
It was university fees for me.
Clegg must have known what the tories were going to do and he should never have gone into a coalition, when it was so central to what he'd been saying.

He's finished, simple as, imo, it's just a matter of time.

As for the LDs, they'll be ok.
A third rate party, same as they've always been.
 

Wild Weasel

Distinguished Member
Well they might as well pack it all in now really. :facepalm:

Clearly a large chunk of their electorate are idealists and dreamers who can't cope with the fact that the party are in government. They obviously preferred the old party that never had power & could keep on promising the earth while pretending they were morally superior to Labour and the Conservatives.

I imagine this revelation is more of a surprise to the Lib Dems high ups than anyone. After all they've spend the last god-knows how many years trying to get electoral reform so they'd never be out of power. If only they'd known they were better off carping on the sidelines with FPTP, they needn't have expended so much energy. Sooo ironic. :laugh:
 

Wild Weasel

Distinguished Member
There was no groundswell of public support for it. It was a top-down issue purely for Lib Dem political gain (or so they thought)

42% is higher than I thought it would be. I was thinking mid-30s max.

There's only one referendum this country needs and we won't get it because they know they'd lose.
 

Badger0-0

Distinguished Member
It's a bit OT, but they'd help themselves if they got some personalities.

As someone who does take some interest in politics, I struggle to name anyone in the party, Clegg apart.

Vince Cable and Lembit Opik (the human anagram :laugh:) and that's it.
 

Badger0-0

Distinguished Member
There was no groundswell of public support for it. It was a top-down issue purely for Lib Dem political gain (or so they thought)

42% is higher than I thought it would be. I was thinking mid-30s max.

There's only one referendum this country needs and we won't get it because they know they'd lose.

I'm pro EU on the whole, but agree they'd lose.
 

Rasczak

Distinguished Member
There was no groundswell of public support for it. It was a top-down issue purely for Lib Dem political gain (or so they thought)
IMHO for a question like 'should we adopt AV' non-attendance at the polls can be intepreted as broad, albeit unethusiastic, acceptance with current arrangements. If they weren't they would have trooped out to express their discontent.

There's only one referendum this country needs and we won't get it because they know they'd lose.
Personally I am pro-EU but I agree a referendum on this issue is needed urgently - otherwise resentment will grow. The Conservatives could use it to their advantage too - a year from now, when boundary changes have been implemented, they could call an election and provide a manifesto pledge of a referendum on EU membership. I'm sure that would lead to wide support and a Conservative majority. I am also confident a broad coalition could make a positive case for membership for that referendum - but if not then withdrawl is probably best. I wonder if the Tories would ever have the courage.
 

Wild Weasel

Distinguished Member
Na, the Tories are bought and paid for too. Cameron pretends, but he's just another euro-traitor at the end of the day. They should have dealt with the EU issue within their party when they were in the wilderness after 1997, but they bottled it. Now they have UKIP haunting them and denying them a parliamentary majority as a result.

Vince Cable and Lembit Opik (the human anagram :laugh:) and that's it.

Septic Optik lost his seat last May. :thumbsup:
 

Badger0-0

Distinguished Member
Septic Optik lost his seat last May.

Just goes to show what a bunch of non-entities they are.

I only knew of him because he was doing one of the cheeky girls :D

Mind you, there are hardly any personalities in any party anymore.
They all tow the official PR line and you hardly ever see any proper debate.

It's no wonder no one gives a toss.
 

namuk

Distinguished Member
what do they still care, there still on easy street simple as. as for AV at least we had a voice, but it cost 250million and were skint if that is what you call Dire straits, or is that a mire drop in the well.
 

kbfern

Distinguished Member

la gran siete

Distinguished Member
Just goes to show what a bunch of non-entities they are.

I only knew of him because he was doing one of the cheeky girls :D

Mind you, there are hardly any personalities in any party anymore.
They all tow the official PR line and you hardly ever see any proper debate.

It's no wonder no one gives a toss.

love him or hate him he is a personality and one of the few the Lib dems had

about the only thing i like about the Lib Dems is their staunch EU stance and look forward to the day when the its flag flies over every member nation with their respective flags set in one corner rather like the Australian flag does with with the Union Jack.That would be brill.
 
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Wild Weasel

Distinguished Member
Back in 1997, Labour were so desperate to get into power that they floated a referendum on electoral reform in their manifesto as a sweetener to the Liberal Democrats. A few days ago, Ed Miliband's proudly told John Humphrys on the Today program that this was his idea.

Asked why this pledge wasn't followed through when they won the election, Ed answered: “Because we got a majority of 170”. :rotfl:


http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/d...milibands-day-began-badly-and-just-got-worse/
 

dazza74

Distinguished Member
So, where now for the Lib Dems?

Supply and demand or their MP's defect to Labour between now and 2015. I think they've had it though, if come 2015 you really want the Tory's out your going to vote Labour as opposed to Lib Dem given you've no idea who'll they'll get into bed with to form a coalition.

In saying that, I've no problem with this alliance. The Lib Dem's have properly reigned the Tory's in a bit, I don't think we would have seen the tax threshold raised under a Tory majority.
 

Jamezinho

Distinguished Member
In saying that, I've no problem with this alliance. The Lib Dem's have properly reigned the Tory's in a bit, I don't think we would have seen the tax threshold raised under a Tory majority.

I don't know, it's always been my impression that the Lib Dems are more aligned with Labour in their belief of higher taxation to fund a bigger public sector, whereas the Tories would be more likely to reduce taxes and focus on the private sector.
 

dazza74

Distinguished Member
I don't know, it's always been my impression that the Lib Dems are more aligned with Labour in their belief of higher taxation to fund a bigger public sector, whereas the Tories would be more likely to reduce taxes and focus on the private sector.

I agree. Not being a lib dem voter, it was only after the election I started to realise how they are more aligned to Labour. I don't think they'll be king makers next time around, we'll have either a Tory or Labour majority imo.
 

Rasczak

Distinguished Member
I see that Tavish Scott, Lib Dem leader in Scotland, has resigned citing the "disastrous Scottish general election result".

Meanwhile Vince Cable has denounced the Tories as "ruthless, calculating and very tribal". :suicide: As a long term political campaigner I would say that sounds more like Lib Dem activisits IMHO. It also sums up the Lib Dems for what they are - very bitter losers. The party needs to learn how to lose because it has alot more bad news coming.
 

Steven

Senior Moderator
Takes one to know one springs to mind. As a seasoned campaigner (no pun intended) he surely knows how the political game operates
 

Rasczak

Distinguished Member
Takes one to know one springs to mind.
If you speak to many of those who walk the ground in the run-up to elections - from all political backgrounds in many, many areas - you wll find a common message that the most 'robust' are the Lib Dems. Infact I could tell you some quite nasty instances some of which I have seen, some of which I have heard about. Politics is not a game for the weak and feeble - but the aggressiveness by which some of their members put their case was fairly poor IMHO. I say was because most of them have either abandoned the party or gone to ground. Indeed a regular poster seems to have left the politics sub-forum the last few days as well ;)

See the 'Yes to AV' picture I posted in the other thread as it sums up the attitude and approach of many of the Lib Dem activisits IMHO. Loudspeaker in the face - something they think is perfectly acceptable.

British politics will be a better and nicer place without them :smashin:
 

Rasczak

Distinguished Member
According to the BBC Nick Clegg is going to pledge "a more assertive role" for the Lib Dems in government but will also insist the party must stay in coalition with the Tories for the "long term". However it could be rocky times ahead. Liberal Democrat president Tim Farron, writing in the Observer, has stated his party must "assert our identity as a radical and progressive party" and must "prove that we listen and learn".

The term "listen and learn" is important IMHO. The Lib Dems have had a electoral drubbing - they were rejected in every vote on Thursday. By contrast the Conservative vote held up. Accordingly it is going to be difficult for them the Lib Dems to argue they have a political mandate for demanding further concessions from the coalition.

Licking his wounds... :D
I suspect he is - I think a fantasy bubble was well and truly burst on Thursday night/Friday.
 

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