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Av amp's how good in stereo??

Discussion in 'Hi-Fi Stereo Systems & Separates' started by t bone, Feb 25, 2004.

  1. t bone

    t bone
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    iam currently using my denon dvd3800 to play cds but i think its time for a dedicated cd player.lve got my eye on two players the cyrus cd8 & the new marantz cd17 mklll ki,Now this has got me thinking:rolleyes: should i spend so much on a cd player when i do not have a dedicated stereo amp.l have a denon a1sr which is very good in stereo, I guess what iam asking is will i hear that extra bit quality by just buying a good cd player and letting the a1sr and my b&w cdn7 nt do the rest? or will a stereo amp make all the difference. Any advice given will be appreciated
     
  2. alexs2

    alexs2
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    The Denon is actually a pretty good amp in pure stereo terms,but if you compared a good stereo amp in the same price range with it,then I'd be surprised if you couldn't tell the difference.
    Obviously though with the receiver,you do get a lot of added features,and at a fraction of the cost of a dedicated stereo amp and an AV receiver as well.
    The route which allows some level of compromise between each of these is the processor and separate power amps one,where a choice can be made at each stage as to how much to invest.
    For me,I often take the processor out of the audio circuit and route CD via the DAC and upsampler,via a(expensive) Audio Synthesis passive preamp,and then into the power amps if I really feel like getting the most out of CD's....usually though I simply can't be bothered at the end of a long day!
     
  3. pwiles1968

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    IMO they lack a little power to keep a good tight control on some speakers (I am not talking about all receivers off course), a separate power amp will sort that. A college proved the point recently by adding a Rotel power amp to a 3803 and he said it was a big improvement and I felt the improvement from adding mono-blocks to bi-amplify my system was well worth the money.
     
  4. t bone

    t bone
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    Thanks guys still lots to think about i'll have a demo of the cd players and take it from they.
     
  5. CJROSS

    CJROSS
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    If you do opt for a CD player T-Bone !!!!! Do a search on DACs !!! at £1200 you are in the territory of MFs Trvista & Cyrus's New DAC-X. Even 2hn hand wise at £1200 you are in AV32 or DPA-32 Dig pre - DAC regions as well, Audio Synthesis DACs , a full spread of Perpetual Technolgies P1A-P3A-Monoluth supply. Much more interesting than a simialr priced CD player.

    I for the life of me still cant believe the amount of p[eople with DVD-V players (and really good ones like yours) dont cosndier them.
     
  6. Daneel

    Daneel
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    With my 2011 adding a power amp makes a BIG difference to stereo music. I have no experience with adding a power amp to other receivers but I would suggest that the difference would be at least as significant unless you are using a flagship receiver.

    I'm about to get an Arcam CD72T which is a pretty decent CD player. I will know for sure in a couple of days but I would be astonished if it had anything like as much effect as adding a power amp. In short, no I wouldn't spend a lot on a CD player to partner with just an A/V receiver, I'd spend it on a power amp first.
     
  7. alexs2

    alexs2
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    Nice to find someone else endorsing Perpetual Technologies,and Audio Synthesis....the sound quality from these and other really good DACs lets you realise just how good CD can be,especially if upsampled properly(and I dont just mean as done by most midrange players)...both of these manufacturers go a long way towards the excellence of dCS but at a fraction of the cost.
     
  8. Stereo Steve

    Stereo Steve
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    From my basic fumblings I would suggest that the processing part is the weak link in AV Receivers. For instance, using the 5.1 bypass of a Sony 930 to power a Tag AV32R produced sparkling results. Reverting to the SOny's preamp it was distictly naff. That's not to say adding a good power amp won't help as well but in the A1SR I would have thought the power stage was pretty good. I would be tempted to get something like an Arcam A85 and run that in processor mode for CD's if you must.
     
  9. t bone

    t bone
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    Cheers guys
    Had the marantz in on demo for the last few days while its a great improvement over the denon, Cjross comments got me thinking a little harder over my upgrade path. Especially as a friend is dropping off some audio synthesis dacs. What should i pay 2nd hand for a good audio synthesis dac? considering the marantz is £1.200
     
  10. ditton15

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    much depends on the model.

    If someone offers you the Dax Discrete, then salivate
    If you can get a Dax Decade for under a grand, then I would recommend that highly. As you can see below, that's the one I went for.
    The Dax 2 is still earlier.
     
  11. Stereo Steve

    Stereo Steve
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    Wouldn't it be better to get a really good CD player and run it through the bypass of the A1SR? I mean a top line Arcam or Roksan CDP can deal with all the jitter and send a great analogue signal straight to the power section of the Denon.

    I'm not knocking DACS as I have no experience with them, just asking a hypothetical question. What is the benefit of a seperate DAC over a good CDP?
     
  12. 337GUS

    337GUS
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    I expect CJ will give you a fuller answer but here are a few thoughts.

    If buying from scratch then a standalone CD player is more convenient, easier to dem and has more choice in the shops.

    If you already have a transport, say a DVD or better still a universal player then adding a DAC gives you not only better CD but potentially better DVD-V as well.

    A DAC can improve more than just CD playback, some have multiple inputs to improve Sky, DAB, Minidisc, consoles etc. I know some CD players do this as well Quad 99 for example.

    Flexibility, once you split the transport and DAC you can add jitter busters, upsamplers etc - Perpetual and Monarchy spring to mind.

    Another possibility is to get a CDP with a digital volume control like a Wadia and run it direct to power amps, no need for a bypass.

    Gus
     
  13. DonMaico

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    My problem with all this high end stuff is that i think the guys making itaare working on massive profit margins. Productivity is low and targetted at certain socioeconomic groups Why cant someone come along and start mass producing this stuff and make it a lot more affordable? Cant be that difficult! aslot substandard gear would then probably disappear!
     
  14. CJROSS

    CJROSS
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    DACs are a very contentious issue T-Bone, you will get many various reasosn why they are good or bad, a lot of the time this conflicts from person to person ie jitter is fot held as a bad situation (not so IME with DACs in real world environments), but for me personally there is one simple reason why DACs sound better than Int. CD players : their power supply.

    Separate power supply & separation of sensitive circuitry ints its own isoalted casework ie the DAC itself from a transports power supplies, once these are split you get an instant dividend. There are plenty of happy Naim & Cyrus CD player users out there who bolt on external PSUs to their kit and it’s the same to me as the puerfication of supply to the DAC section of an offbaord external DAC.

    Re. your pre-amp - A DAC though is just like any piece of decent stereo source equipment that will only show its full potenetial via a pre-amp tuned for that purpose IMHO.
     
  15. Ultra2man

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    I recently got a Naim CD5 to run through my Denon AVC A1SE.
    I plugged it into the external i/p of the amp therfore bypassing all the internal processing. the sound quality compared to the Arcam dvd88 that I was using before ( via analogue using the Arcams dacs) was much more impressive. Much tighter bass lines And better focus. I'm now saving up for the Flatcap 2 power supply.
    At the end of the day it all depends on how much you want to spend but definately try and get some demo's. My dealer did this for me using my speakers/ amp/ dvd player and a couple of dedicated cd players.
     

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