Answered AV amps as hifi amp

st170dan

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Hi, a general question out of curiosity. Can AV receiver amps be good hifi amps? I'm guessing not as good as dedicated hifi amps but can they still do a good job? My downstairs AV set up has to perform as a hifi system and has a CD deck connected to it. My actual hifi serves it's purpose in my bedroom. I have an entry level Sony HD receiver amp which does a reasonable job with TV and film but not so well when switched to CD. I have a 5.1 set up and I know for film the surround speakers are supportive but for music I'd like them to be equal to the front (in my mind I have 5 speakers I want to fully utilise for music). If I apply pro logic 2 music processing to the CD channel the surround speakers stay quite subdued. I can boost them up by applying multi channel processing to the CD channel but I think you then loose the left/right channelling the artists do in the studio (particularly with guitar and drum based music). I don't think my amp lets my tweak individual channels, only a global tweak.

Would an upgrade to my amp give me the answers I'm looking for? I have no space in my stand currently to add an extra amps, unless I mount the TV on the wall (I'm old skool...)

Thanks in advance.
Dan
 
Some AVR's are better than others at music, Marantz, Cambridge Audio and Arcam are probably the three that are best known for being 'musical'. I have personally owned the Cambridge Audio and Marantz AVR's, and they certainly did a better job of music than my Sony, Denon and Yamaha AVR's. But not as good as a stereo hifi amp, so I now use a Musical Fidelity M3i for music.

It is possible to integrate an AVR with a hifi amp, so you can share the speakers. Front left and right speakers of the AVR, also used for stereo with the hifi amp.

There are a few ways to achieve this.

1. If your AVR has pre-outs and the hifi amp has HT bypass, then you connect that way, and in HT bypass mode the hifi amp acts as a power amp driving the front left and right speakers for the AVR, the AVR controls the master volume of all the speakers.

2. If your AVR has pre-outs and the hifi amp does not have HT bypass, then you can configure it in a similar way, using the pre-outs of the AVR to a spare input on the hifi amp. Then find the sweet spot on the hifi amp where the volume if balanced with the other speakers connected to the AVR, via an SPL meter / app then running the speaker set-up on the AVR to fine tune it. When you have the right volume on the hifi amp set, mark it and always return the volume to that setting when using the AVR. The AVR will then control the master volume of all the speakers.

3. If your AVR does not have pre-outs, you can use a speaker switch, so can then share the same speakers between the AVR and the hifi amp.

In all of those cases, when watching tv / movies, you use the AVR. When listening to music, the AVR is off and you use the hifi amp exclusively, with all of your music sources connected directly to the hifi amp.
 
Your money is better spent on a dedicated integrated stereo amplifier if your priorities are with the reproduction of stereo sources. You are paying extra for additional channels of amplification, digital sound processing, licensing and codecs when purchasing a multichannel AV receiver or amp and not for better audio performance. The more complex signal paths also make it a lot harder to deal with the signals without degrading or adding noise to them. It is often said that you'd need to spend triple the cost associated with a stereo integrated amplifier to get close to the same stereo performance from an AV receiver. There are some manufacturers who do have a reputation for making AV receivers that perform better than most when it comes to their stereo performance. Arcam is probably the most notable example, but you will pay a premium if wanting even the most basic Arcam receiver.

All-un-all, it depends upon how much money you have at your disposal?

Some invest in an AV receiver that includes pre outs for the front left and right stereo channel sand then use an integrated stereo amplifier to power their front speakers with. This gives pretty much the best of both worlds. Some intergrated stereo amplifiers even include a pre amp by pass mode that enables you to use them as power amps in a multichannel AV setup. This makes setting them up for use within such setups a lot easier.
 
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Rambles has covered how to use a stereo amp above and the simple answer to your question is no. AVRs may just be adequate for music if space is a problem depending on model. I've only just introduced a Rega Elicit R into my set up with includes the then second tier high end Denon X6200 to drive the front left and right. Now for music with the Rega back in control of my Marantz SACD player it's slays the Denon.
 
Agree with above. However in the end it is up to you to decide if an AVR is good enough for music given your own personal listening habits, for eg to give some context:

I find my AVR is perfectly good for background music - ie I just want some music on at whatever volume (whether loud or quiet), usually a premium net radio stream/service or even a ripped CD, but I am not actively listening to it in the ideal listening position. It is absolutely fine for moderate volume house parties as well, however I would absolutely not suggest running an AVR at high level driving all speakers (party mode) as this is considerably more strain than even most reference level movie sound track.

There is a caveat for this - personally even for background listening I really do not like what an AVR's room correction does to music and actually it is often worse than no correction when out of the ideal listening zone, so I always use pure direct mode.

OTOH, if I am actively listening to some music and seating in an ideal listening position, then the limitations of an AVR can become quite obvious depending on how good you AVR is. The room correction is working better of course because you are in the ideal listening position, but I then also tend to notice the (sometimes nasty) quirks it introduces. I also start to notice the limitations of the AVRs imaging and depth. Dynamics may not be quite there either - its all a bit flat and lifeless compared to a good dedicated hifi amp especially with lossless sources. For mp3, well they can be a bit lifeless and flat anyway.

So, again, it is up to you to figure out if it matters. What an AVR can give you is a very high convenience and ease of use factor along with easy home automation integration etc in the case of some models. For some people this may be more important.

If you want the best of both worlds, then a hybrid setup is best, but a lot more costly due to the features needed on both the AVR and integrated amp and the result may not be very convenient to use without careful choice of components and/or using something like Logitech harmony to control it all.
 
Thanks for your replies, I'm just chewing all that over as I am not the best with the technical stuff, my appreciation is for the end product! Sounds like the addition of a dedicated hi-fi amp is the way forward if I can make the space, I will have to see if my AVR has pre outs. I may actually have an amp available as I am planning upgrading my upstairs system this year.

My AVR is in the living room and it has multi function (TV, film, PS4 and music) which is what I intended it for. But as I mentioned it doesn't quite cut it for the music (it's fine for the rest). It seems a shame to me to have a 5.1 set up and not to maximise it for music play back, as said above. What I want to be able to do is put the music on downstairs, cook dinner in the kitchen and enjoy the aural experience!
 
If you want to maximise music, especially from stereo sources it's best to connect the playing hardware directly to the stereo amp via analoge if it has a good onboard DAC if the stereo amp does not have one. Personally I don't like using the receiver to convert stereo music to 5.1 even wth an integrated stereo amp engaged. The best sound comes from the most efficient path, ie, player>stereo amp>speakers.
 
I have an entry level Sony HD receiver amp which does a reasonable job with TV and film but not so well when switched to CD. I have a 5.1 set up and I know for film the surround speakers are supportive but for music I'd like them to be equal to the front (in my mind I have 5 speakers I want to fully utilise for music).
Dan

Your Sony receiver should have a mode called 'Multi Channel Stereo' which will do pretty much what you want. Here is an explanation from our very own Dante, and of course it won't cost anything to try.

Sony 'multi stereo' mode
THe front left and right are left unadulterated. The receiver mirrors the front left and right channels to the rear left and right surround speakers and content that shares the same phase (the mono aural aspects of a stereo soundtrack) is output via the centre speaker.
 
Thanks. I didn't realise that. I have that process but wasn't sure if I was losing left/right specificity. Now I think about it, I bet it says in the manual!
 
This is what the manual says. Not quite sure what the interpretation is though? Left and right through all speakers?
 

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