AV Amp Recommendation for B&W 683 Speakers

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by Fruity14, Feb 3, 2014.

  1. Fruity14

    Fruity14
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    I am trying to decide on an Av amp to drive my B&W 683 front speakers. The surround speakers are likely to be B&W 685 or B&W DS3 (dipoles). The room they are going into is 4.2m x 4m.
    The amps I have been considering are..
    Sony 1040 @ £395.00
    Yamaha 1073 @ £499.00
    Yamaha [email protected] £750.00
    I am currently leaning towards the Yammy 1073, however would really appreciate any advice to decide on the best amp to drive the B&W speakers. My max budget is £750, which is a shame as the Denon 4520 is going at a very keen price (£1195) at the moment. I believe the Denon to be at least one class if not two above the ones I have mentioned above. Thanks
     
  2. PSM1

    PSM1
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    You do not really need to spend as much as the 4520 to get the best from your speakers but they do deserve a good amp. Hence if your budget is £750 then I would get the 1030 or for a little less the 1020.
     
  3. Fruity14

    Fruity14
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    Thanks for your swift reply.

    Good to know that it is not neccessary to spend aroud the £1200 mark on the Denon to get the best out these speakers.You are quite right the Yammy 1020 is about 15% cheaper at the moment. However I was lead to believe that the Yamaha 1073 was equivalent to a Yamaha 2020. Apparently it was not released here originally as it was almost identical to the 1030

    Is that not correct?

    In terms of usage the setup is going to be used for 75% home cinema an 25% music.

    Thanks
     
  4. PSM1

    PSM1
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    Not fully up on the Yamaha range but would suspect the 1073 would be closer to the 1020/1030 as opposed to the 2020. I seem to remember someone saying the 1073 and 1030 were close so the 1073 may offer better value for money. If you do not need the receiver right away it may be worth waiting a little bit for the new 2014 models to be released and the subsequent dropping in price of the 2013 models. Last year the adventage models were being sold at around half price.
     
  5. dante01

    dante01
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    The RXV1073 is much the same receiver as the RXA1020, but without the anti resonance features associated with the Advantage models. The RXV1073 is still a lot cheaper than you can get the RXA1020 for, if you can even still find an RXA1020?

    The Denon AVRX3000 and the X4000 are also now discounted and comparable in price to the Yamaha RXV1073 and or the RXA1030.

    Denon AVR-X3000

    Denon AVR-X4000


    It is doubtful that the prices of the Yamaha Advantage models will be heavily discounted when the new models arrive this year. Yamaha have tidied up their supply chain so that stock is always in short supply so there's less chance of clearance items than experienced in previous years. Last years RXA1020 never really dropped below £1000 and only the 2020 was really offered at a discount price.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2014
  6. Fruity14

    Fruity14
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    Thanks for the detailed response.

    So would the Denons be better than the Yamaha for the B&W 683 speakers. Both are considered to have a warm sound, so they should sound similar as compared to a Pioneer perhaps.

    If you had the choice, how would you rank the amps we have been talking about in terms of 1st, 2nd, 3rd choice.

    I was at the Sevenoaks shop at the weekend, they were trying to steer me towards a pioneer. Personally I have never liked their sound. Although I must admit, haven't listened to the newer models as of late.

    Thanks you for your assistance. I am just trying to find that one feature or performance characteristic to help me decide, as they are all similarly priced and significantly discounted at the moment.
     
  7. dante01

    dante01
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    I'd personally want a Yamaha RXA2020 or 2030 rather than the Denon AVRX4000, even if the Yamaha options cost more. I've found Denon receivers to be no way as good as they should be at this level and wanting in comparison to the Yamaha comparable models.

    Pioneer are fine, but you either love or hate their signature sound. Many find the sound too harsh and tiring to listen to over any prolonged period of time. If going in that direction then I'd strongly suggest you audition the Ptoneer receiver in conjunction with your speakers and while also taking into consideration listening time. Some of the listed features associated with the Pioneer models also have to be taken with a pinch of salt. Many of these features fail to work as they should.

    I'd have to say that the RXV1073 is the best of the bunch you've listed, based upon its price, specifications and performance. The RXA1030 is a better receiver, but only slightly and with a price premium attached to it
     
  8. Fruity14

    Fruity14
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    Hey, thanks. It is not too often that you get recommended something which is better and also cheaper at the same time. I assume it will be fine with the B & W speakers.

    It is just that I tried the B&W speakers with a really old Denon 3802 over the weekend at a mates house and whilst the setup sounded pretty good he said that the amp was 10 notches above normal volume to get the same volume/effect level. He normally uses MA RS8 speaker setup. We couldn't quite figure out why that was the case. Although the MA are rated at 6 Ohms and the B&W's at 8 Ohms.

    It just got us wondering do the B&W's need more juice to really sing? and therefore is the Yammy 1073 upto it. His Denon was rated at 105W @ 8ohm and 150 @ 6 Ohms.

    Any ideas?
     
  9. dante01

    dante01
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    It is the rated sensitivity that would indicate how much power is required to drive the speakers and not really anything to do with the impedance. The real world differences between 6 and 8 ohm speakers are negligable and would really have any implication in terms of levels.

    Any of the amplifiers so far mentioned will power your speakers without issue, although I'm sceptical of DEnon's ratings and find them to be less powerful than you'd expect them to be. This is of little consequence though because it doesn't mean that the receiver cannot attain the same reference levels needed for an average size room.
     
  10. Fruity14

    Fruity14
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    Speaker sensitivity and impedance are always a bit tricky to get ones head round. I had to research your answer to fully understand the terms. Based on your recommendation I will look to finalise the amp selection today.

    Bit off-piste but I am planning to get the B&W 685 or DS3 (dipole) for the surround speakers. Any recommendations which would be better. I cannot attach the SB speakers on the rear wall, they will have to sit or placed on the side walls.

    Further, which sub would suit the setup. I was considering the B&W ASW610, though they don't seem to be as well regarded on the forums.

    One option could be to utilise my old under-used Mission M72 speakers for the surround duties and get a better sub.

    Any recommendations...

    Thanks
     
  11. PSM1

    PSM1
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    For a sub I would recommend a BK Electronics one. If you can afford it the Monolith or XXLS400 would be the best options. BK offer very good value for money and you would need to spend significantly more to beat them in terms of performance. If you do want to spend closer to the £1k mark then SVS would also be worth a look.
    As for the rears, use monopole if you have plenty of space to the sides/rear of the seating location to that the speakers have the distance to disperse the sound properly. If you do not have much speaker then a dipole speaker will be better. Dolby and THX both recommend the surround speakers on a 5.1 system are placed on the side walls just a little bit back from the seated location so your proposed location does not sound too far from that.
     
  12. Fruity14

    Fruity14
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    Thank you, that is great. Better start working out that credit card.

    The room is pretty small at 4.2 x 4.0 metres, with not much room at the side for placement away from the listeners ears. I will beg, borrow and... to audition some b-ipoles and direct radiating speakers before I take the plunge.

    Having read the reviews on the forum for the BK monolith, there are obviously performance improvements over the XXLS400. However do I need that added performance in a room this compact....

    I assume both being from BK they sound the same, with the Monolith delivering for power.

    Thanks
     
  13. dante01

    dante01
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    If going on the side walls (facing one another) then I'd suggest the dipoles as being your best option. Dipoles make it harder for audio to become localised and this would be benrficial given the speakers' intended location.
     
  14. PSM1

    PSM1
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    Given your room size the xxls400 should be more than enough. The Monolith is a big beast to try and house so if you do have limited space this could be an issue ( although could make a good ornament table if it does not shake them off).
     
  15. Fruity14

    Fruity14
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    Well thank you all, that pretty much settles it in terms of the Sub and the surrounds. Just been looking at the size of these beasts. You weren't kidding when you said they were big.

    I could possibly place these in between the two sofas at right angles in the room. I will check it tonight.

    How forgiving are they in terms of placement? and would the Forward firing (FF)/ downward firing (DF) be any easier to place or differ in performance. The BK site seems to suggest the FF and DF have the same performance. Thanks
     
  16. dante01

    dante01
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    Downward firing are only easier to locate if a forward firing drive would be obscured completely, but this would suggest that the sub is inappropriately located and too close to furniture etc anyway. Some say that downward firing subs are better with music, but there's no evidence to support this and I can't say that I've ever noticed a difference? Downward firing units are also handly if you've children who like to poke holes in speakers ie all children. Just choose whichever one of the two options you prefer ;) What floor coverings do you have? THe floors makeup can have some effect upon a downward firing sub, but you can get a granite or wooded plinth if the floor is carpeted. Downward firing subs aren't always the best option if you live in a flat or if the flloor is a suspend type as opposed to solid.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2014
  17. Fruity14

    Fruity14
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    The floor in the room is covered with a hessian type no-pile carpet, and it is a suspended wooden floor construction in a victorian house with high ceilings. Luckily none of the walls or floors are shared with neighbours.

    So when you state that DF won't always be the best option in these conditions. What will or is likely to happen to the sound?
     
  18. dante01

    dante01
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    The floor is more likely to transmit the sound through it and along joists if a suspended wooded floor than into the room. Carpets can also diminish the impact. I'd suggest you either get a forward firing sub or use a granite or concrete slab beneath a downward firing unit given your flooring.
     
  19. Fruity14

    Fruity14
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    Thank you for the swift response. I will keep that in mind, but can't one just increse the volume on the sub to compensate for the loss of energy through the floor. Just an idea really!!!

    Does it have to be granite/concrete slab? Can't one just use a piece of MDF or something similar.

    We are really off the Amp discussion section, so I will refrain from posting anyting further on related items before I get told of by the Mods.
     
  20. dante01

    dante01
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    You've no need to incrrease the line level signal, the receiver would do this as a result of the calibration. You'd still be losing desirable aspects of the sub's output and are likely to lose impact in return for bass boom or loud wooly bass.
     
  21. GreenMovie

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    +1 For BK option.
     
  22. GreenMovie

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    Also +1 for Forward Firing version.
    Much easier to position.
     
  23. degsy

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    Just my two-penneth but I have been driving B&W 600 series speakers for some years with Yamaha amplification and to my ears and in my room (of a similar size to yours) they work well together for both music and films/TV. Having recently acquired the Yamaha RXV1073, I remain a "happy bunny".
     
  24. lokyc

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    Am I wrong, but I thought B&W speakers are easiest to live with. Most people like the sound. It has an airy, neutral overall tone. Works well with copper wires. If it sounds harsh, its because it likes power. So any amp with juice should do.

    And save your pennies and just go for good quality copper wires which are no more than £10-15 per m at most
     

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