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Automatic and manual Mondeo - how does that work, then?

Discussion in 'Motoring' started by Stuart Wright, Aug 14, 2005.

  1. Stuart Wright

    Stuart Wright
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    My girlfriend wants an automatic but I prefer manual gears.
    We're after a diesel estate Modeo and I'm told that you can get a gearbox which is both automatic and manual.
    How does that work, then?
     
  2. eviljohn2

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    It's something like the gearbox has an automatic position and also a position where you can cycle up and down the gears by tilting the gear lever or paddles or something. It's not quite the same as a traditional manual box though.

    All of these tiptronic/multitronic/ automatic gearboxes are a little over my head at the moment anyway. :)
     
  3. Stuart Wright

    Stuart Wright
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    Oh so they don't have a manual clutch?
     
  4. LV426

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    Tell her, from me, to drive a proper manual.
     
  5. vonhosen

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    Not all manufacturer's implementation of tiptronic or semi auto boxes are the same. They can behave quite differently from each other, but they have no clutch pedal.
     
  6. eviljohn2

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    No clutch. Some of the fancy versions have the next gear "lined up" ready to slot right in at your command to give a fairly seamless change in fractions of a second apparently. :eek:
     
  7. Ian J

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    These "fancy" versions of yours used to be fitted to London buses 50 years ago - that's progress for you :rotfl:

    Stuart - if you've never tried an automatic before, give it a go as you may find you don't want to go back to a manual. There is nothing worse than edging along in a trafic jam with your left foot constantly on the clutch.
     
  8. Bernard Barnett

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    I agree with Ian. Automatics are not the "slush boxes" they used to be. You can have just as much fun using the auto options as you can with a manual, admittedly without a clutch. Also if you buy an auto secondhand it's very unlikely that the engine will have been damaged by inappropriate revving (poodling along in top at 10 mph or racing at 60 mph in second).
     
  9. Stuart Wright

    Stuart Wright
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    Good points, and it's because we have an automatic that the girlfriend wants another one. But I prefer manual gearboxes and don't automatics still use up 10% more fuel?
     
  10. johndon

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    I've driven a few 5 series BMW's with the tiptronic\steptronic gearbox and have tried the 'manual' gear change option a few times and I always get a few hundred yards down the road and then switch back to the fully automatic option as I always think 'why on earth am I changing gear in an automatic car'.

    John
     
  11. MartinImber

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    A good auto is hardly any slower if slower at all and can be more economical
     
  12. Drd

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    The VW DSG box for example.But how does it know whether your going to go up or down a gear next?
     
  13. MacReady

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    The Audi DSG system has a double clutch where as one gear is engaged and the second clutch is disengaged ready to engage the next gear as the first clutch is disengaging...it makes the 3.2 TT a fantastic car to drive :thumbsup:

    I have an Alfa 156 Selespeed which is one of the many cars you can buy with a semi sequential gearbox. BMW use the SMG system which is not that great to be honest but one of the worst is the Citroen system (allthough I have been told that the one used by Aston Martin leaves a lot to be desired also :eek: )

    Semi sequential systems typically are based around normal 5 or 6 speed gearboxes with a conventional clutch but the clutch and gear change is controlled electronically via hydraulic servos and electronic management systems.

    I found mine quite fun to drive at first but have become a bit bored with it now. There is a noticable lag between gear changes but this depends on your driving style and you can also change the system so it is more like a normal auto with the system changing gears for you. There is no torque converter like in a conventional auto though so you have to get used to using the handbrake on hills if you have only drove autos in the past ;)

    The lack of a clutch pedal is something you soon get used to and it can be quite fun banging the gearbox up and down the gears via the stick or the buttons/padalls on the steering wheel :thumbsup:

    I would advise you take a few test drives to see if this kind of gearbox is to both your liking as some people hate them with a vengeance.

    The tiptronic system used in Porsches is more like a conventional auto box though :thumbsdow
     
  14. rhoamish

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    The short answer is 'yes'. The longer answer is 'only if it really is an automatic'.

    Traditional auto boxes are less efficient than traditional manual boxes, so they use more fuel.

    However, some cars use a 'clutchless' manual gearbox. These still use a clutch, but the clutch is operated automatically. These are normally found in smaller cars, but because the clutch is operated very efficiently, they can actually use less fuel, and even accelerate slightly faster, than a traditional manual gearbox. They also allow you to choose between manual and automatic gear changes. Unfortunately, most of these are deeply unpleasant to drive.

    Some manufacturers use 'paddle shift' systems. In most cases, these aren't really manual gearboxes: think of the paddles as the manual gear ratio selector on an automatic gearbox. You now have the worst of all worlds: poor acceleration, poor economy (compared with a manual box) and a gearchange system that's pretending to be sporty.

    Someone's already described the DSG box. This is very clever: the slight disadvantage is that you can't block-change, but the advantages are quicker changes, and therefore better acceleration.

    Hopefully this is of some help. But there's no substitute for a test drive!
     
  15. MacReady

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    Semi sequential clutchless manual box's are used across the board and not just in small cars. Smaller cars just tend to have very simplistic version ofetn with single ECU control for all functions and no driver learning ability like systems in larger cars.

    I dont really understand this :confused: Most of the systems that use paddles or buttons on or behind the steering wheel are the same system as used in the clutchless semi sequential systems. It is just down to manufacturer as to whether they want a gearstick and paddles or just the paddles on the steering wheel. They still use a 'normal' manual box with the gear selector and clutch mechanism controlled hydraulically via ECU's. Some manufacturers, like Porsche, do use a paddle shift system in their tiptronic that is actually based on an auto box rather than a manual box so this really is a bit of a strange waste of time imho.
     
  16. MartinImber

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    Autos can be better - including proper GM 4 speeds with lock up torque converter.

    Auto 2.0 Omega at motorway speeds is better than the manual - I HAVE OWNED BOTH!
     
  17. Bernard Barnett

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    Re paddles: they're there to appeal to the wannabee racers who see them on F1 cars.
     
  18. chedmaster

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    why cant someone make a circular based prism shaped gear (think pointy party hat) that is at the very big end at low speeds then some kind of centrifugal/mechanical force gradually forces the "prism" horizontally so the gear gradually becomes smaller (and therefore "higher" in a traditional box)

    no gear changing, seamless accelaration all through the range, and at the peak revs of the engine most of the time.
    is this wishful thinking?!
     
  19. vonhosen

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    Isn't that what CVT is supposed to do (without always the pointy hat being present I know) ?

    Why have one pointy hat when you can have two though ?

    http://www.andersoncvt.com/
     
  20. johndon

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    Ford did it with the Fiesta years ago...

    John
     
  21. chedmaster

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    did it work/take off?
     
  22. johndon

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    It certainly worked and made it possible for everyone to get from 0-60 in exactly the same time :)

    AFAIK though they dropped it but I don't know why although I seem to remember it was only ever suitable for smaller cars.

    John
     
  23. Moviebuff

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    The Ford CVT gearbox, a spin off of the DAF Variomatic gearbox , proved to be too unreliable, and after many mods, they gave up on it.

    Automactics are the way to go. There is nothing clever or flash about changing gear, and invariably, autos make a far better job of gearchanges then a human will ever achieve. I've had a fair smattering of both auto's & manuals, and against everything I've said above, i have just gone from a auto BMW 540 to a manual Audi A4 TDi. The manual gearchange is proving to be nothing but a chore.

    and

    Auto's in the case of the 540 Beemer, are more frugal on fuel then their manual counterparts. Performance wise in both acceleration and top end, they are pretty much identical. I will concede that the Steptronic SM gear change of the Beemer, from a novelty aspect, becomes tiresome after about 25 seconds. The "Sport" mode, on the other hand, is something else entirely. :D
     
  24. Stuart Wright

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    Had a browse of the Modeo specs in a brochure. The manuals read to give consistantly better fuel consumption in traffic across all models.
     
  25. IronGiant

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    Hmmm, what if they've engaged the sports setting so that it only changes up at 6,500rpm ? My brother demonstrated this to me on his H reg Passat, which I thought was less than prudent, if a touch exhilarating :)

    Dave
     
  26. Bernard Barnett

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    Well, I did say "unlikely" to have been caned. Also, and I admit it's only a theory, I reckon most people who buy an auto don't know how to use the manual options.
     

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