Auro-3D?

Skyrider

Well-known Member
Hi,

I'm currently in the market for a new amp/AVR: can anyone suggest how important it is to include support for Auro-3D in the new unit?

Thanks.
 

Krobar

Well-known Member
Real Auro content is very rare and limited to just a few movies and some music releases in this country. This means the main benefit of Auro3D is the Auromatic upmixer, you would need to compare it to Dolby and DTS upmixers for yourself to see if you prefer it (Some people like it; some dont).
 

Skyrider

Well-known Member
Real Auro content is very rare and limited to just a few movies and some music releases in this country. This means the main benefit of Auro3D is the Auromatic upmixer, you would need to compare it to Dolby and DTS upmixers for yourself to see if you prefer it (Some people like it; some dont).

Thanks, Krobar. I've seen the list of movies which include this soundtrack, which, as you say, is quite limited. It would be interesting to compare if the opportunity arose, but doesn't seem like a deal breaker.
 

Harold88

Member
Anyone had the opportunity to test both auro 3D native movie and auro upmixer?

I am very curious how the Auro upmixer deals with 5.1/7.1 audio tracks since there are a lot of movies out there with no atmos/DTS X. I always watch them with DTS Neural X and I am very curious how it compares to Auro upmixer.

Curently my speaker config looks like this, so no top speakers , just hights:

1002922796_11.2SETUP.png.43b79b0c1e965f90cfc93f553ac372b4.png


I was thinking to add two more speakers for Auro, if I will go for this upgrade. One front middle hight and one top speaker above the head for VOG thus reaching 13.1.

I did not had the opportunity to test it myself but some people say that Auro brings a very intersting sense of realism that is much better than both DTS and Dolby.

P.S. i would like to add that all the content I watch in my HT with Atmos, DTS X and DTS X upmixer, sounds very good, very engaging, a trully wonderful experience but the question is can it get better than this? :D
 
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Krobar

Well-known Member
Anyone had the opportunity to test both auro 3D native movie and auro upmixer?

I am very curious how the Auro upmixer deals with 5.1/7.1 audio tracks since there are a lot of movies out there with no atmos/DTS X. I always watch them with DTS Neural X and I am very curious how it compares to Auro upmixer.

Curently my speaker config looks like this, so no top speakers , just hights:

View attachment 1404449

I was thinking to add two more speakers for Auro, if I will go for this upgrade. One front middle hight and one top speaker above the head for VOG thus reaching 13.1.

I did not had the opportunity to test it myself but some people say that Auro brings a very intersting sense of realism that is much better than both DTS and Dolby.

Auro is quite different. I quite like it for stereo music personally. Native Auto media is rare and sounds very similar to dolby/dts if given the same mix.

I use an Auro 13.1 layout and it is better than standard 7.1.6 layout in my single seating row room. Remember that Dolby won't use the CH or VOG speakers and you will need DTS:X Pro for DTS to support that config.
 

Krobar

Well-known Member
So DTS is going to support this speaker layout ?View attachment 1404461

An appropriate receiver or prepro with DTS:X Pro can support either of the configs above. Some DTS:X Pro receivers support 9.1.6 with CH/VOG. You must check the manual for whatever receiver / prepro you are considering to make sure.

CH is quite useful with Imax Enhanced as they always have an object 2/3s of the way between the center and center height.
 

Harold88

Member
I see.

Well my first option would be the new Denon x6700.

But it's a big step so i still have to fully understand how much better would be the sound of such 13.1 setup, upmixed with auro from a DTS/Dolby bluray/UHD disc, compared with what i have now. My current receiver does not support Auro so I'm not able to test even 10.1.

I don't want to sound rude, I know the guys from Auro are very passionate and they are working hard but they live in their own bubble. I can't find any relevant information on their site other than some generic stuff that I can find pretty much anywhere. Their youtube channel have very old videos.

I belive they are focusing of pro cinemas and they are ignoring to some degree the home cinema market.
 

Krobar

Well-known Member
I see.

Well my first option would be the new Denon x6700.

But it's a big step so i still have to fully understand how much better would be the sound of such 13.1 setup, upmixed with auro from a DTS/Dolby bluray/UHD disc, compared with what i have now. My current receiver does not support Auro so I'm not able to test even 10.1.

I don't want to sound rude, I know the guys from Auro are very passionate and they are working hard but they live in their own bubble. I can't find any relevant information on their site other than some generic stuff that I can find pretty much anywhere. Their youtube channel have very old videos.

I belive they are focusing of pro cinemas and they are ignoring to some degree the home cinema market.

There is quite a useful speaker config PDF on the Auro site but that is about it. Only you can make the value decision, if you like DTS Neural and it suits your room I would say it is worth it, this is more important than Auro.

The denon 6700 will do Auro and DTS:X 7.1.6 with CH/VOG. Auro upmixer is fairly different to the other upmixers and IMHO not as smart (It it is more like a better variant of Yamaha DSP modes) however for some sources it sounds better.
 

Harold88

Member
Well if DTS X PRO works with this 13.1 config, I guess I have nothing to lose since I already like Neural X very much so Auro Matic will be just a bonus :)

Dolby Atmos sounds good to me but only the antive tracks, the Atmos upscaller is not what i'm after since it puts sounds where they shouldn't be.
 

Harold88

Member
Auro upmixer is fairly different to the other upmixers and IMHO not as smart (It it is more like a better variant of Yamaha DSP modes)

Unfortunately i have no ideea how Yamaha DSP modes sounds like.

The thing that caught my attention when I was researching about Auro 3D is that , according to Auro, their upmixer makes the dynamic range even better instead of slowly killing it.
 

Harold88

Member
Just found this on Denon website.

Like you already said, it seem like Auro 3D 13.1 layout is exactly the same as DTS X PRO/IMAX 13.1.

Dolby is going in another direction but I'm very curious to hear an IMAX movie with 13.1 layout.

Also i have found here that the new upmixer for DTS X PRO compatible setups is IMAX DTS X and not neural X. I am very curious to see how it upmixes channel based tracks (5.1/7.1) to 13.1.

Oddly the X8500H does not have support for DTS X 13.1 but the newer X6700 have :)
 

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Krobar

Well-known Member
Just found this on Denon website.

Like you already said, it seem like Auro 3D 13.1 layout is exactly the same as DTS X PRO/IMAX 13.1.

Dolby is going in another direction but I'm very curious to hear an IMAX movie with 13.1 layout.

Also i have found here that the new upmixer for DTS X PRO compatible setups is IMAX DTS X and not neural X. I am very curious to see how it upmixes channel based tracks (5.1/7.1) to 13.1.

Oddly the X8500H does not have support for DTS X 13.1 but the newer X6700 have :)

As far as I know all Imax Enhanced releases have the Centre Height object (This info was from a trusted user on another forum who was involved in the Imax Enhanced mixing). DTS:X Pro upmixes to the additional speakers too; to be more specific it upmixes fixed speaker positions and objects just use the extra speakers as expected (Most DTS:X tracks are actually fixed channel not object based; Imax enhanced tracks are fixed 7.1.4 with single fixed object just below the Center Height position).

I was under the impression that Neural X was still used for upmixing with DTS:X Pro (Maybe ask on the Denon thread). Imax Enhanced is just a detection marker inthe track which changes crossover behaviour supposedly to suit Imax mixes there is nothing I know of which would stop normal DTS:X releases using CH/VOG.
 

alebonau

Well-known Member
I am seriously interested in DTS-X pro for support of Ts(VOG) and Ch speakers. in my opinion in most normal sized rooms these make so much more sense than the top middle (L&R) speakers that dolby pushes and not really supported by anyone else.

auro/imax/dts seems to support the 7.1.6 with Ch and Ts and likes that neural X should also support the speaker locations... am yet to hear from anyone having actually tried the layout though...

also just because there is dts-X pro support is no guarantee Ts and Ch speakers are supported...eg anthem... cant get a straight answer on the two Ts and Ch being supported by the brand...
 

Krobar

Well-known Member
I am seriously interested in DTS-X pro for support of Ts(VOG) and Ch speakers. in my opinion in most normal sized rooms these make so much more sense than the top middle (L&R) speakers that dolby pushes and not really supported by anyone else.

auro/imax/dts seems to support the 7.1.6 with Ch and Ts and likes that neural X should also support the speaker locations... am yet to hear from anyone having actually tried the layout though...

also just because there is dts-X pro support is no guarantee Ts and Ch speakers are supported...eg anthem... cant get a straight answer on the two Ts and Ch being supported by the brand...

I know the answer for a few well known ones:

Key - DTS:X Pro / Auro / CH+VOG / VOG Only / CH Only

Denon / Marantz - Most 13 Channel models - Yes / Yes / Yes (7.1.4+) / Yes (7.1.4+) / Yes (7.1.4+)
Trinnov Altitude - Yes / Yes / Yes / Yes / Yes
Storm Audio Mk2 - Soon / Yes / Yes / Yes? / Yes?
Arcam / JBL Synth / Audiocontrol - Current Models - Soon? / Yes / Yes / No / No
Anthem - 2020 Models - Yes / No / No? / No? / No?
Monoprice HTP-1 - Soon / Yes / No / No /No
 
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Harold88

Member
I find very intersting the fact that, probably for the first time, we have a specific speaker layout for DTS X (the 13.1 above), which happends to be exactly tha same as for Auro, couse untill now they kept saying to just use the ,,atmos'' layout.

Personallyt I don't really like the atmos setup with top speakers instead of hights. I watched some movies in a calibrated HT with atmos tops and i was't very impressed. I actually like my HT , with 4 hights, much better.

Also I had some discussions with audio calibrators who said that the way atmos wants you to put the ceiling speakers it's somhow agains the audio rules couse the direction of the tweeter has nothing to do you listening position.
 

alebonau

Well-known Member
I know the answer for a few well known ones:

Key - DTS:X Pro / Auro / CH+VOG / VOG Only / CH Only

Denon / Marantz - Most 13 Channel models - Yes / Yes / Yes? / No?
Trinnov Altitude - Yes / Yes / Yes / Yes / Yes
Storm Audio Mk2 - Soon / Yes / Yes / Yes? / Yes?
Arcam / JBL Synth / Audiocontrol - Current Models - Soon? / Yes / Yes / No / No
Anthem - 2020 Models - Yes / No / No / No / No
Monoprice HTP-1 - Soon / Yes / No / No /No

thanks ! So much ! For taking the time ... I really appreciate as I keep asking but tough to get any clues ...

amazingly Marantz seems most capable/accomodating in speaker setups beyond atmos it seems ...

Most disappointing for me in this is anthem ? Even though claim beyond 13 speakers why on earth no support for 7.1.6? Beyond what atmos does ?

not top centre or centre height literally leaves a hole even in most homely surrounds ... and if using atmos top middle L&R then they’ll have to do a kind of phantom centre same for centre height

the Athem is latest of the bunch ... you’d expect it to be yes across the board ? Very strange ...
 

Krobar

Well-known Member
thanks ! So much ! For taking the time ... I really appreciate as I keep asking but tough to get any clues ...

amazingly Marantz seems most capable/accomodating in speaker setups beyond atmos it seems ...

Most disappointing for me in this is anthem ? Even though claim beyond 13 speakers why on earth no support for 7.1.6? Beyond what atmos does ?

not top centre or centre height literally leaves a hole even in most homely surrounds ... and if using atmos top middle L&R then they’ll have to do a kind of phantom centre same for centre height

the Athem is latest of the bunch ... you’d expect it to be yes across the board ? Very strange ...

I would wait until release before calling it on the the Anthem as info may change but current information is that all channel configs are are yes/no type config, info on the AVS thread suggest Auro is not present.

The AVM70 is unique at the price point in offering 9.2.6 though (ie. 17 channels).
 

alebonau

Well-known Member
I would wait until release before calling it on the the Anthem as info may change but current information is that all channel configs are are yes/no type config, info on the AVS thread suggest Auro is not present.

absolutely ! Only 10 days to go. But yeah I wonder some processing limitation why not only no auro3D or as appears Ts or Ch and agree with you time will tell.. hopefully more feedback ... I shared on SBS hopefully we see more on this in coming days and weeks. I very much appreciate what have done though to pull together it’s excellent heads up to folk even to look further to explore :)


The AVM70 is unique at the price point in offering 9.2.6 though (ie. 17 channels).

absolutely ! Has lot going for it on so many fronts and why so surprised ! :) hopefully time brings more to light :)
 

Bobby86

Active Member
I know the answer for a few well known ones:

Key - DTS:X Pro / Auro / CH+VOG / VOG Only / CH Only

Denon / Marantz - Most 13 Channel models - Yes / Yes / Yes? / No?
Trinnov Altitude - Yes / Yes / Yes / Yes / Yes
Storm Audio Mk2 - Soon / Yes / Yes / Yes? / Yes?
Arcam / JBL Synth / Audiocontrol - Current Models - Soon? / Yes / Yes / No / No
Anthem - 2020 Models - Yes / No / No / No / No
Monoprice HTP-1 - Soon / Yes / No / No /No

@Krobar Is there a reason why D+M cannot do Center Height Only but they can accept a VOG Only channel is it an inherent limitation of the ADI Griffin Lite DSP?
 

Krobar

Well-known Member
@Krobar Is there a reason why D+M cannot do Center Height Only but they can accept a VOG Only channel is it an inherent limitation of the ADI Griffin Lite DSP?

I have updated the table. The older Denon/Marantz did not allow CH only but having looked at the manual it seems the X6700H will do CH only providing at least 7.1.4 is configured.
 

Bobby86

Active Member
I have updated the table. The older Denon/Marantz did not allow CH only but having looked at the manual it seems the X6700H will do CH only providing at least 7.1.4 is configured.

Thanks for that, I think you accidentally removed a "Yes" for Auro for the D+M models with the revision.
 

solasoft

Novice Member
Denon x8500h support dts-x pro now.
And is working with 13 channels.
In my opinion is better than atmos on Auro 3D.
 

Krobar

Well-known Member
Denon x8500h support dts-x pro now.
And is working with 13 channels.
In my opinion is better than atmos on Auro 3D.

In my experience Auro and Neural X work so differently that I find which is better depends on the source.
 

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