Auro-3D - Speaker Layout Compatibility Update

Jase

Distinguished Member
I was always under the impression that Auro-3D needed to have actual Height Speakers to work. i.e Front Height/Surround Height or Front Height/Rear Height (a universal layout that also works with Dolby Atmos and DTS:X).

Anyway, poking about in the online manual for my Marantz SR7012 I noticed it mentioned substituting Dolby Atmos Enabled Speakers.


'Auro-3D recommends adding FRONT HEIGHT and SURROUND HEIGHT speakers to a 5.1 speaker configuration. Optionally, you may substitute REAR HEIGHT, Dolby Atmos Enabled speakers instead of FRONT HEIGHT and SURROUND HEIGHT speakers for Dolby Atmos, DTS:X and Auro-3D playback'

Thinking this might have been a misprint I went looking for more info on the Denon and Marantz Websites and found these:-



Both specifically mention using Dolby Atmos Enabled Speakers for Auro-3D although only for certain models and subject to a possible firmware update.

Denon Models are the AVR-X4400H, AVR-X6400H and AVC-X8500H.

Marantz Models are the SR7012, SR8012, AV7704 and AV8805.

Anyway, as I have the SR7012 I thought I'd try it out. So, re-assigned my speakers to Dolby Enabled and sure enough, Auro-3D was listed as a compatible format. I have poweramps for all my channels so turned off the base layer so only the four Dolby Atmos Enabled speakers were on.

IMG_20210113_135404.jpg


I then switched on a source, set it to Auro-3D and those speakers were indeed active and producing sound.

IMG_20210113_135330.jpg


Surprised this has slipped through the net and not been mentioned before. I'd have thought Denon and Marantz might have been a bit more vocal about it. Same for Auro themselves as I find the upmixer far better than Dolby Surround or DTS Neural:X especially for Stereo sources.

Anyway, hopefully it will be useful for anyone with the listed models and Dolby Enabled Speakers who might have been unaware Auro-3D was an available option.
 
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mb3195

Distinguished Member
Surprised this has slipped through the net and not been mentioned before. I'd have thought Denon and Marantz might have been a bit more vocal about it. Same for Auro themselves as I find the upmixer far better than Dolby Surround or DTS Neural X especially for Stereo sources.

this quote is interesting. I’ve not done a huge amount of auro3d listening as my speaker layout isn’t optimal for it, I currently have an Atmos configuration.

however, only yesterday I decided I would be re-laying out my ceiling speakers in the below image format, as this is what trinnov recommend for the best overall “compromise”, as I had read that auro3d upmixing was the best and wanted to start using it.

it is clearly the best for 2 channel music upmixing, this much I already know.

Not a job I’ll be doing until later this year, once I’ve decided on my next speaker range.

020CCB67-25CF-4C4E-ACF8-F188C9BD1123.jpeg
 

Jase

Distinguished Member
My current layout is 7.2.4 with the height layer set as Front Height/Top Middle. The reason being is my Marantz is limited to 9CH processing for Auro-3D (10CH if I ditch a Sub and use the SW2 Pre-Out for the VOG channel).

Front Height/Rear Height worked quite well but meant my Surround Backs weren't being used for Auro-3D so I decided to change the layout to the above. The Top Middles sounded better for Atmos so as the majority of my discs etc have that format it seemed the sensible option. DTS:X also uses those on the films that have it. The drawback is that Auro-3D on my Marantz doesn't due to the aforementioned lack of processing so only Front Heights are used (although the Surround Backs are now also back in play).

Auro-3D is pretty much on all the time for 2CH/Stereo/5.1 sources on TV as to me it sounds far better than the Dolby or DTS Upmixers. Dolby Surround sounds bloody awful with Stereo and seems a massive step backwards compared to the older Pro Logic 11Z etc. DTS Neural:X is a bit better although the Centre channel can sound a bit nasally. To be fair though, they both do a much better job with Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD sources and will also upmix to all my speakers.

Auro-3D still sounds better to me than both despite not utilising all the available channels. Just seems to have more bass weight to the front soundstage and voices sound better (natural).

Be interesting to see what you make of Auro-3D Mark once you've changed your speakers and let the Trinnov loose on it. :thumbsup:
 
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Conrad.

Moderator
I'm interested in this as well. I have the AV7702 and I have the option of adding Auro 3d to it for £150 or so. I'm also probably going to install in ceiling speakers at some point this year but if angled bookshelves which are better placed on the ceiling would give a good compromise for atmos and Auro3D, and the Auro3d is better than the atmos upmixer, that could be a winner for me.

It really bothers me that it could have auro and it doesn't!
 

Jase

Distinguished Member
I'm interested in this as well. I have the AV7702 and I have the option of adding Auro 3d to it for £150 or so. I'm also probably going to install in ceiling speakers at some point this year but if angled bookshelves which are better placed on the ceiling would give a good compromise for atmos and Auro3D, and the Auro3d is better than the atmos upmixer, that could be a winner for me.

It really bothers me that it could have auro and it doesn't!

I paid for the Auro-3D upgrade on my SR7010 as at the time I considered it a worthy purchase in relation to the cost of the AVR. It is a bit annoying that you'd still have to pay £150 now when it's included for free on later units.

Given the prices you can buy older AVR's for though, it starts to look a bit pricey. I still think it's worth it if you're going to keep the 7702. If not, I'd probably wait and get a later unit that has it included.
 
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Conrad.

Moderator
I only paid £140 for the 7702!

Two ways to look at that. It was a bargain so even with the upgrade it’s still cheap for what is a decent processor. Or it more than doubles the cost!

I’ll wait for your feedback I think. I might not move processors for a long time. I’m considering the HTP1 but I want to see what Classé release next.
 

Jase

Distinguished Member
I only paid £140 for the 7702!

Two ways to look at that. It was a bargain so even with the upgrade it’s still cheap for what is a decent processor. Or it more than doubles the cost!

I’ll wait for your feedback I think. I might not move processors for a long time. I’m considering the HTP1 but I want to see what Classé release next.

Blimey! 140 quid...utter bargain!

If you have no plans to move it on soon then I'd still consider adding the upgrade as it's the cheapest way to get Auro-3D processing up and running in your system.

An HTP-1 is currently top of my list for new kit. :cool:

Edit @Conrad. Sent you a PM as the Auro-3D upgrade for the 7702 is a bit limited in terms of speaker layout compared to newer models.
 
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alebonau

Well-known Member
I run a VOG/TS speaker in amongst a 7.1.4 setup and running auro3d...which I find pretty awesome or music.

reason i think it is more suited to music is it has a more front bias than say the other surround formats. ie you havent got bongos going off in back of the room or something :D

2L do some lovely music with auro3d tracks.

the great thing i have found is auro3D is actually very much compatible with DTS-X pro and neural X so you can utilise your VOG for DTS-X pro/neural X as well. the other speaker I beleive supported by both formats is the Ch speaker... centre height... ie up front. am very much keen to explore what gains this speaker brings to both auro3D and DTS-X pro/neural X.

ps I paid for the auro3D update on my marantz processor as well. but on newer units its included...
 

alebonau

Well-known Member
what speakers do you have and is the ts the same speaker?

hi Topmetom, for bed I run focal speakers. utopia Diva mains, electra be centre and be side surrounds and chorus rear surround. for heights I run 5x Focal Electra IC1002

indeed yes TS speaker(for DTS-X pro/ neural X) is the same name for the auro 3d VOG speaker :)

I am very curious now with advent of DTS-X pro to consider adding a Ch speaker that will work in with both auro3d and DTS-X pro/neural X I believe with the marantz 8805 processor :)
 

Topmetom 2

Well-known Member
hi Topmetom, for bed I run focal speakers. utopia Diva mains, electra be centre and be side surrounds and chorus rear surround. for heights I run 5x Focal Electra IC1002

indeed yes TS speaker(for DTS-X pro/ neural X) is the same name for the auro 3d VOG speaker :)

I am very curious now with advent of DTS-X pro to consider adding a Ch speaker that will work in with both auro3d and DTS-X pro/neural X I believe with the marantz 8805 processor :)
I have the 8805 as well, so your ts is the ic1002? what is the ch speaker?
 

alebonau

Well-known Member
I have the 8805 as well, so your ts is the ic1002? what is the ch speaker?

Good to hear TM on the 8805 you have. I am only running 8802A where i run auro3D VOG speaker.

below I believe shows how it is dts-X pro and imax that brings compatibility between these formats and auro3D. note the use of the Ts and Ch speaker for thee formats...

Screen Shot 2021-01-14 at 10.40.21 pm.png


and can see the DTS-X pro update on marantz now brings use of either Top middle .... or centre height (Ch) / Top surround Ts speakers for auro3D / DTS-X pro/ IMAX

Screen Shot 2021-01-14 at 10.45.52 pm.png
 

alebonau

Well-known Member
so your ts is the ic1002? what is the ch speaker?

yes my VOG/Ts speaker is a ic1002 and I have procured another for use as a Ch which i hope to pull off given info above :) and oh yeah would need a 8805 and DTS-X pro :D
 

alebonau

Well-known Member
AH.....dont think I could hang a Arendal on the ceiling!

haha yes all my IC1002 definitely designed for inceiling use. I am using each one of them with dynamat dynaboxes so there is absolutely no leakage into ceiling space in-between floors between lounge room and bedroom upstairs :D

ps I noticed in the 8805 manual the support for 6 height channels where Top surround and centre height along with the front and rear height surrounds :)
Screen Shot 2021-01-14 at 10.53.37 pm.png
 

alebonau

Well-known Member
Seemed a bit muddy(?) at first...must of been sky. Now sounds quite good...

what speaker layout/config you running TM ? you planning to add a Ts or Ch speaker ? wondering if any other folks running a setup with those :)
 

Topmetom 2

Well-known Member
Interesting ive turned it off now. Without the vog channel i found 3d a bit muddy......im assuming its the lack of correct speakers..
 

Jase

Distinguished Member
Interesting ive turned it off now. Without the vog channel i found 3d a bit muddy......im assuming its the lack of correct speakers..

Did you have a play with the Surround Parameters at all? Auro-Matic 3D Preset, Strength etc
 

Jase

Distinguished Member
Where are they???

In the main menu go to Audio - Surround Parameter and in there you can adjust/change them.

It's also worth trying the Auro-2D mode if you don't want to use any height channels. That works well for Stereo sources. I think it can also be applied to 5.1 sources but I'd need to double-check that on mine to confirm it.
 
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