Audyssey Sub EQ HT Response to Questions from Audyssey Labs

Dobbyisfree

Active Member
Hi all, thought I would share some answers I had back from Audyssey Laboratories on Sub EQ HT to share the l0ve. Regarding question 3, I am aware that there are some AV processors (and other ways) of EQing mroe than two subs but I don't believe any Audyssey enabled AVRs that can do it.

(1) The default that I have now is two subwoofers one in each front corner and have run Audyssey and it has EQed them. If I set these subwoofers up with one front and one rear, but I only want lower frequencies (below 40Hz) from the rear, can I set the sub filter on the rear sub to 40Hz then run Audyssey? Will it be ok with no filter on the front sub but a 40Hz filter on the rear sub and integrate them properly please?

I presume you're referring to the filter on the subwoofer? It's a bit tricky. Because HT attempts to level align the subwoofers in based on frequencies up to 80Hz, it will read a missing octave from that subwoofer and increase the level of that subwoofer to make up for the missing 40-80Hz. However, even having done so, it will measure it in coordination with the other subwoofer, and EQ accordingly to a flat baseline, as long as the "before" response doesn't have peaks and dips greater than the range of correction. With the app you can get a better picture of what's going on. After achieving that bassline, Audyssey Dynamic EQ will take care of the psychoacoustic elements based on volume setting and content level.

(2) I actually have two more subwoofers (both the same). If I use Y splitters, connect both the front subs (both the same) in the front corners and both the rear subs in the rear corners, then use Y splitters so that front subs are in first sub output and rear subs are in second sub output, will Audyssey do a good job of this?

With 4 subwoofers, I like to group the subwoofers by equi-distant pairs. So, any two subwoofers that are equally distant from the main listening position are good candidates for pairing. After that, you can manually adjust the paired subwoofers so they measure the same level, preferably with a trustworthy SPL meter and narrow-band pink noise. You can even use the calibration to test them, but it's a slow process that way. So now that you have two pairs, that within each pair are level and time correct before calibration, you can let SubEQ HT time and level align the separate pairs. This works really well in my experience.

If the distances within the pair are off a couple feet in distance it won't hurt much, but if you get to where they're off by more than a few feet, they'll might start to interfere with each other more significantly.

By the way, subwoofers in front left/right corners of a symmetric room, with a central listening position, will in many circumstances be regarded as effectively "co-located" - barring unusual construction issues, the measured sound in the main listening position from each subwoofer should be about the same. Measuring one seat to the left vs. one seat to the right should also be about the same -- if the room is really symmetric. I don't know that's the case in your setup, but if it is, then y-cording those subwoofers is going to be just as effective as having individual outputs for them.

(3) It is so irritating that there are no AVRs with more subwoofer outputs, individually aligned and Eqed. Do you know if this is coming soon? Lots of people have more than 2 subwoofers!

I can't comment on what features might or might not show up in future products, but I definitely hear your complaint. By the way, it always helps for the AVR manufacturers to hear these kinds of requests. Although we're happy to support it with our embedded software, it takes hardware to make it happen.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
I think you'd currently need one of the higher tier Pro home theatre processors if wanting to EQ mulriple subs individually (Trinnov maybe?). Some of the upper tier receivers/amps can do 2, but more than this and I'd not hold your breath in expectation of new models including the ability to do more than this?

With Audyssey? Probably not now or ever? Two is your limit/
 

Jase

Distinguished Member
@Dobbyisfree

Some of the older Denon flagships (AVC-A1XV, AVC-A1HD, AVP-A1HD) were able to do up to three subwoofers even with the original Audyssey XT.

I'd assume it's Denon/Marantz that for whatever reason decided two subwoofers would be sufficient as Audyssey is capable of more. See screenshots from the AVC-A1HD manual:-

Screenshot_20210616-135920.jpg
Screenshot_20210616-135643.jpg
 

Dobbyisfree

Active Member
That's the coolest thing ever. They always do cool things that geeks like then stop doing them. Like the AVR-4520 (and others) where you could switch off onboard amps individually. Like the e39 5-series, where before the facelift it had a button where an electric water pump powered up and it would keep the car warm with the engine off. It's just not fair.

As Audyssey admit, they can do more, it's "just the hardware".
 

Dobbyisfree

Active Member
MiniDSP 2x4HD?

I know and thanks. I just don't want yet another box. Guess I'm lazy. It's our lounge and there are something like 14 things in power sockets, plus all the speakers on top. It's enough. I feel sorry for the D&M owners who will have yet another box so that they get what they want out of their HDMI.
And I don't want to faff with a laptop, I do laptop for work all day.
Sorry, I realise the MiniDSP is one of the ultimate tools for this, but it's just not for me.
 

Jase

Distinguished Member
That's the coolest thing ever. They always do cool things that geeks like then stop doing them. Like the AVR-4520 (and others) where you could switch off onboard amps individually. Like the e39 5-series, where before the facelift it had a button where an electric water pump powered up and it would keep the car warm with the engine off. It's just not fair.

As Audyssey admit, they can do more, it's "just the hardware".

Is a bit frustrating. Denon used to roll down all the funky features from their flagships but rarely do now. The AVC-A1XV had fully assignable amps which I found really useful. That should really be a standard feature 15 years later... :facepalm:
 

Dobbyisfree

Active Member
AVR manufacturers must have a marketing team that goes out and asks owners what they want from the next gen... shame they don't come to AVF to ask.

Mind you, if they did add all the features AVF members would ask for, to keep it at cost it would be 10w per channel at 10% THD!
 

Jase

Distinguished Member
AVR manufacturers must have a marketing team that goes out and asks owners what they want from the next gen... shame they don't come to AVF to ask.

Mind you, if they did add all the features AVF members would ask for, to keep it at cost it would be 10w per channel at 10% THD!
Denon used to over on AVS Forum (DenonJeff), but not here so much. One of their tech guys used to visit here albeit slightly under the radar.

I'd prefer they went back to longer gaps between their model releases and that each new range got a significant upgrade rather than a bit of a tweak to the spec. Ideally keeping all the previous features rather than adding some and removing others.

AVR's have become like mobile phones with their model releases. :thumbsdow
 

Dobbyisfree

Active Member
I agree. I have an xX400 series, which I'm pretty sure is 2017 model year. You put that in ZKElectronics site spec comparison against xX700 and it's not really a big deal, in my opinion.

I think replacing them every year ends up devaluing the older models quicker. I mean in normal times of course, not in current C19 times, where AVRs are selling for mad amounts. I sold my x2300 last month for £25 less than I paid for it brand new!
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
@dante01 do you have any magic insider info. or rumours about question 3 please?


Finally, there are two dedicated subwoofer outputs on the SDR-35, although it's the same signal going to both. Alternatively, you can use channels for 13 to 16 to run up to four subwoofers and fully utilise Dirac Bass Control. You'll then need to choose your speaker layout and crossovers, and if you're planning a manual setup rather than Dirac Live you'll need to measure the distances from the sweet spot for the delays and set the levels for each channel using an SPL meter.

 

Dobbyisfree

Active Member
Cool, it's only 6 grand as well. What do you think they'll give me trade in on the X4400? I'll start looking for the rest as loose change in the sofa cushions 🤣

Only jokin' - it's a useful fact for other members. There's a member putting a list together of 13 channel processors, he/she may want to add number of subs to his/her table he/she keeps. @cspadijer is that something people would be interested in?
 
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Conrad

Moderator
I think the Trinnov will let you do 2.14 if you wanted to.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
I think the Trinnov will let you do 2.14 if you wanted to.

Yeah, I'd imparted that info earlier in the thread.

I think you'd currently need one of the higher tier Pro home theatre processors if wanting to EQ mulriple subs individually (Trinnov maybe?). Some of the upper tier receivers/amps can do 2, but more than this and I'd not hold your breath in expectation of new models including the ability to do more than this?

With Audyssey? Probably not now or ever? Two is your limit/
 

cspadijer

Active Member
Cool, it's only 6 grand as well. What do you think they'll give me trade in on the X4400? I'll start looking for the rest as loose change in the sofa cushions 🤣

Only jokin' - it's a useful fact for other members. There's a member putting a list together of 13 channel processors, he/she may want to add number of subs to his/her table he/she keeps. @cspadijer is that something people would be interested in?
Yep. Something I am looking to add. I am going to merge with some data that @Krobar has provided but then will need to pull manuals to find the missing processor info on the list. So will get there eventually, will just take some time. Please check out what @Krobar has provided in the interim for some common makes/models.
 

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