Audyssey - Do you use Dynamic EQ?

paulst10

Distinguished Member
Up until recently, I have always tended to use Dynamic EQ for movies but have been noticing that certain things were sounding a little overwhelming or droning when they really shouldn't be at volumes of around -18db. Since disabling the DEQ and just using Audyssey I'm finding these instances are pretty much non-existant, you don't seem to get the same weight of the LFE (unless you up the volume) but it seems more accurate than the enhanced weight it occasionally adds to an already bass-heavy scene. But when I want to watch later at night say around -25 or -30db I find the DEQ is perfectly fine and the bass-weight added is most welcome in comparison to what would be quite thin sounding at that volume.. I suppose it's a case of swings & roundabouts but was curious whether anyone else still uses it and whether you notice any anomalies in the bass?
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
There's actually an existing thread on this topic, but I unfortunately cannot post you a link to it due to the board's search function not working as it should right now.

The conclusions drawn were in favour of not using Dynamic EQ if at all possible and that it resulted in overblown FX and bass. The audio without it is far more natural.
 

paulst10

Distinguished Member

robbster

Active Member
I run it and have dynamic volume on light on my denon x2100. I generally listen at lower levels so it works well for me. Dynamic eq gives a boost in low frequencies and dynamic volume keeps the overall volume level in line so I don't have to jump for the remote in action scenes etc.
 

Olliefreddie1

Active Member
This is something I've pondered recently and funnily enough after turning off I increased rears by 1db and sub by 3db.
Definitely better without it for me.
 

zzoli

Active Member
Since I never turn up the volume to more than -30 the answer is YES. To tame the surrounds I use a trim of -2. Very rarely I use dyn.level on Night.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Note that if you alter the levels to something other than what was determined by the calibration then the Dynamic Audyssey options are no longer correctly configured by the receiver. Both Dynamic Volume and EQ work by using the calibration results to calculate their own levels. If you manually change the calibrated levels then this throws to Dynamic options out of whack.

Another point worth mentioning is that is intent on listening to something at a lower level then you usually have good reason to. If you then engage Dynamic EQ then the FX are boosted to levels that sort of counter this and create noise more ordinarilly associated with louder volume. What was the point and why not simply turn the volume up? And then there's the fact you are losing the detail because it is being swamped by the bass FX.
 
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zzoli

Active Member
Note that if you alter the levels to something other than what was determined by the calibration then the Dynamic Audyssey options are no longer correctly configured by the receiver. Both Dynamic Volume and EQ work by using the calibration results to calculate their own levels. If you manually change the calibrated levels then this throws to Dynamic options out of whack.

Another point worth mentioning is that is intent on listening to something at a lower level then you usually have good reason to. If you then engage Dynamic EQ then the FX are boosted to levels that sort of counter this and create noise more ordinarilly associated with louder volume. What was the point and why not simply turn the volume up? And then there's the fact you are losing the detail because it is being swamped by the bass FX.
To your first point: I'm perfectly aware of the theoretical drawbacks of changing the trims after the setup. In practice I couldn't care less. I do believe that upping the surrounds as you lower the volume is unnecessary, but there's no way to bypass this feature of Dynamic Eq, that's why I use the front-back fader.
To your second point: Huh? Of course I use DynEq because I listen at a much lower level than the programme was mastered. Because of this I (and every other human being) sense much less bass , and to a lesser degree less treble. The only purpose of DynEQ (and several other loudness compensation technologies) is to tackle this situation by giving back some bass and treble. I agree that sometimes it works brilliantly and sometimes not so, but at least it tries and I appreciate it.
You ask me why is that low volume. It' simple: For several reasons I don't like loud sounds so I will never listen at reference level.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Bass carries through walls far more readilly than the higher frequency range. If wanting not to disturb people by reducing the volums then using Dynamic EQ actually counters this while also making the more detailed aspects less audible. If you don't like loud sounds then why are you using Dynamic EQ which emphasises the louder FX of an audio track over the quieter and more detailed aspects?

Try listening to the film Dredd all the way through both with and then without Dynamic EQ engaged. Even at low volume levels you'll still prefer the non Dynamic EQ rendition. Even at low volume levels, you'll disturb your neighbours when Dynamic EQ is engaged.
 
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Rick84

Well-known Member
I use both Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume to great effect on my CA. With them off, the wife is constantly saying "it's a bit loud" when we're watching movies. We tend not watch above -30db at the minute and the Audyssey tools are great.

On my previous Marantz SR7005 (for some unknown reason) both these tools didn't work anywhere near as good, way to much lower end and speech was just muffled.
 

Scott76

Active Member
Don't know why so many people don't like dynamic eq.
I only recently found it by accident and suddenly the whole surround sound has come to life with it on.
 

Rick84

Well-known Member
Admittedly, I have slated Audyssey in the past but it's sound a lot different on the CA, I'm thankful for D-EQ/D-V.

Wonder if it's due to the Marantz being a warmer sounding AVR and then Dynamic EQ/Dynamic Volume exaggerates the warmth?

I'm possibly talking complete nonsense, naturally :)
 

Nobbler

Distinguished Member
Some people think that all Dynamic eq does is up the bass - there's far more to it than that. If you have it on your receiver and you don't/can't listen at reference level, then it's a must in my opinion...in the minority here but why not use it and turn the aubs down a bit...:eek:
 

robbster

Active Member
Some people think that all Dynamic eq does is up the bass - there's far more to it than that. If you have it on your receiver and you don't/can't listen at reference level, then it's a must in my opinion...in the minority here but why not use it and turn the aubs down a bit...:eek:

I was going to buy a Yamaha amp but audyssey swayed it for me and I bought a denon. Not regretting it one bit to be fair, the denon has been great and I can't fault it. Do Yamaha's have their own version of dynamic eq and volume with YPAO?
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Yamaha have Adaptive DRC that equates to Audyssey's Dynamic Volume, but no direct comparative feature to Dynamic EQ. I've found Yamaha's Adaptive DRC to be better than Audyssey's Dynamic Volume. Yamaha do include vastly superior DSP and have far more experience in this field when compared to any of the other manufacturers. Yamaha receivers are the only receivers I'd actually suggest using DSP with in order to actually improve upon the audio. Yamaha basically invented DSP and home theatre using the experience they gained from the manufacture of synthesisers and digital instruments. Yamaha had a lot to do with the development of Dolby's original Pro Logic DSP.
 

paulst10

Distinguished Member
Some people think that all Dynamic eq does is up the bass - there's far more to it than that. If you have it on your receiver and you don't/can't listen at reference level, then it's a must in my opinion...in the minority here but why not use it and turn the aubs down a bit...:eek:

I don't think you're in the minority, there's a use for Dynamic EQ.. if you listen at around -25/30db then I can understand you requiring a little more impact, and like you say it's not just the bass, it gives more emphasis on the surrounds giving a perception of loudness while retaining a relatively low volume overall. The people that dislike Dynamic EQ are people that are looking at accuracy, they don't think the feature is worthless, it's just not for them. It isn't an accurate representation of what's on the disk but for lower volume listeners it works and adds an impact you can't necessarily get by upping the subwoofer trim alone, but a combination of channel trim increase along with master volume increase can bring a happy medium that I'm sure would covert you back to disabling Dynamic EQ altogether in favour of a more accurate reproduction.. Try adding 1db to surrounds and 3db to sub after Audyssey calibration and listening 5db louder on the master volume than you did with DEQ enabled and let me know how you get on :)
 
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Nobbler

Distinguished Member
Buy if I could do that with the volume levels, why would I use it in the first place...? :confused:
 

paulst10

Distinguished Member
Buy if I could do that with the volume levels, why would I use it in the first place...? :confused:

What sort of levels do you listen at? Also what you like about DEQ that you think you can't replicate by a little tweaking? Do you ever find that certain scenes are way too bass heavy (I can think of many when I ran with DEQ).. Social Network Nightclub scene, most of Oblivion, Gravity sounded terrible when the capsule was re-entering, John Wick nightclub scene with it's droning bass.. I could go on, but simply disabling DEQ gave a more pleasant listening experience and yet a small channel level & volume adjustment can give back the impact you lack while still retaining a degree of accuracy.

Has anyone noticed after running Audyssey and checking levels with an SPL metre that Audyssey purposely sets the channels levels to around 71db? I assume this is so it can apply 3-5db boosts via DEQ and still be within the 75db limit..
 

Nobbler

Distinguished Member
I use an external power amp with an Onkyo 818 - one thing to remember is that Audyssey doesn't set the speakers - it actually eq's the room so what works in my room might not work in yours which seems to be the case.
 

paulst10

Distinguished Member
I use an external power amp with an Onkyo 818 - one thing to remember is that Audyssey doesn't set the speakers - it actually eq's the room so what works in my room might not work in yours which seems to be the case.

Sorry but Audyssey does set the speaker levels (this is why your first measuring position is the most important) It also sets the distance, crossover points, addresses phase and EQ's the room. But Audyssey isn't under discussion I was simply implying that it purposely sets the speaker levels lower to allow for Dynamic EQ boosts to remain within the 75db limit.

If you don't want to try it then don't or you simply think it's not for you then it's whatever you think works best for you that counts. Personally I now prefer it without DEQ and re-adjusting the levels so I now get fairly decent impact at around -25db yet when I up it to -15db it's not too overwhelming, it just sounds right.

Here's a REW graph with my before and after Audyssey so you can see my FR is fairly flat and there should be no reason why DEQ causes bass to drone or to sound too overwhelming...
rew%20java%201%206%20smoothing.jpg
 

Nobbler

Distinguished Member
Your second paragraph is spot on mate - I have tried without and but sounds better TO ME with it on. Having spent 2 years working for Onkyo tech support and customer services ( yes it's true they do have a CS department contrary to rumours) I can assure you that your case is not unique. Audyssey works for some people and not others. My wife can't stand porridge but I can't start my day without it. I know Audyssey sets the speakers in the first run. It then spends the next 2, 5 or 7 runs - depending what version your using - eq'ing your personal environment to those speakers. Add or take away a rug the eq changes. I listen at about -20db but if you've got a wooden floor and I've got carpets it's going to sound different. My levels are on 75db all across set by the first run and measured using a THX calibrated SPL metre (not mine I might add). The only bug I have in my ointment is my rear speakers always sound heavy to the right since I changed them for triples anni can not suss it for the life of me
 

Nobbler

Distinguished Member
Looking at your graph again I'm assuming the blue line is the after line? Is it not running a little high to you. I will agree that you certainly have a flat response and if Audyssey did that then Onkyo are dumber than thought for ditching them. What version of Audyssey do you use?
 

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