Audioquest Forest Vs. Pearl HDMI

mtunreal69

Active Member
Hi everyone,

Currently I am looking to upgrade several of my HDMI cables and I am struggling to decide between these cables. I'll be hooking up 360 & PS3 plus a 3D Blu Ray player to a Yamaha 1067 and Panasonic GT30.

I'm looking for something in this price range, and not opposed to alternatives. Which of these cables would you recommend?

Also does anybody know of any shops that are selling them at a good price or offer discount for AVFourm members?

Cheers for your responses in advance.
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
I can see a flurry of ‘Why?’ replies heading your way!!!

If your hoping to see or hear any sort of improvement over your currently working HDMI cables forget it and use the money elsewhere in your search for AV nirvana.

Joe
 

mtunreal69

Active Member
I can understand the arguments for and against expensive HDMI cables, some saying digital is either received or not and others stating it helps the maintenance of the signal integrity.

The reason for my change is to help out a few issues I am having with respects to signal drop out and peace of mind from well constructed cables. People will always argue about "its only a cable" but forget the technical implications of constructing such a device and how difficult the engineering aspects of it is. Therefore cheap cables must be cheap for a reason. They meet the standard required of HDMI, but does that mean they are delivering the absolute best in every way?

Any how back to the question at hand, does anyone have any experience of these cables?
 

Avi

Distinguished Member
I can see a flurry of ‘Why?’ replies heading your way!!!

If your hoping to see or hear any sort of improvement over your currently working HDMI cables forget it and use the money elsewhere in your search for AV nirvana.

Joe

Completely agree.

It's possible to provide very well engineered HDMI cables for a fraction of the cost. It also worth looking at the official HDMI adopters as many "brands" don't actually manufacturer cables.

Avi
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
What problems are you experiencing?

Agreed construction (or more specifically the cable to connector PCB board interface) is important along with the cable strain relief for long term reliability.

Perversely where its good practice to use a reasonably heavy gauge of cable stock you then run into potential issues with over stressing the cable/connector/socket interface if you don’t give the cable a decent radius at the back of your kit.

What’s less clear is that assuming one well manufactured connection is the same as the next how the cable stock running between the two connecters can have a targeted effect on some portion of the video or audio signal!

One working cable will deliver the same video and audio signal as another – no matter the price or materials used.

Again – better to focus on the problems you are experiencing; throwing money at ‘high end’ cables is no guarantee of sorting anything.

Joe
 

mtunreal69

Active Member
One of the issues I have is that the audio portion of the signal can drop out periodically.

Which cables would you recommend for good quality? I've looked at the adopters list from hdmi.org, but there is lots of information to get lost in.

Thank you for the replies, I really do appreciate your sensible responses as I've seen this subject matter get wild and with no conclusions.
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
Your audio signal is carried on the video lines of the HDMI cable bus (there are no audio wires as such) and the Sink (TV, AVR etc.) receives an instruction from the Source to decode the audio – if you’re getting audio drop out and it’s not accompanied by video drop out its unlikely that you have a cable fault!

What the system?

How’s it connected?

How long are your HDMI cables?

Which Sources are suffering the audio drop out?

Joe
 

mtunreal69

Active Member
Issue seems to be with the Xbox and my hd-dvd player that I use to play cd's. Sometimes the video does freeze in conjunction with the audio dropping out. I'm confident the source of the problems is with the cables I use in these sections. The cables are only between 1.5m - 3m runs.

The hdmi cables connected are xbox official cable and fisual pearl editions.
 

Avi

Distinguished Member
Which cables would you recommend for good quality? I've looked at the adopters list from hdmi.org, but there is lots of information to get lost in.

There are a number of reasonably priced well engineered products on the market. Personally for runs under 15' I use the Blue Jeans Cable F2's. The cable uses Belden US cable stock and is HDMI high speed certified up to 15'. It's also 28awg that means it's more flexible, easier to handle in confined spaces and places less stress on the HDMI connection points. I sure other will be able to suggest some alternative options.

HDMI Cables from Blue Jeans Cable

Here some background on HDMI cables and bench testing of various brands at different price points. Long HDMI Cable Bench Tests - Monster Cable Shootout — Reviews and News from Audioholics

If you have issues due to connections working loose these can also help - HDMI Cables and hd EZ lock Universal Locking HDMI Cable Adapter

Avi
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
I’d want to run a few tests with your gear – time consuming but the only way to pin point the problem.

My own HD-EP35 has just given up the ghost – not had much use but started to drop out and now the HDMI port is pretty much useless!!!

If your determined to replace your HDMI cables look to any of the AVForums Assured Advertisers for some High Speed cables – they won’t cost a fortune.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/hdmi-cables-switches/831330-hdmi-cables-just-facts.html

Joe
 

mtunreal69

Active Member
I just received some information with regards to the two cables listed in the title. Apparently the audioquest forest has a more detailed vocal range in the soundstage. Could anybody else ratify this, or would you disagree?
 

Avi

Distinguished Member
I just received some information with regards to the two cables listed in the title. Apparently the audioquest forest has a more detailed vocal range in the soundstage. Could anybody else ratify this, or would you disagree?

Is the information a claim made by the manufacturer in their advertising material or an "opinion" from another party that's used by the manufacturer i.e. a review ? I'd be really interested in any evidence and technical detail of how they achieve this. Also how this works with regards to data that is in compressed bitstream format.

In reality the only way you will know is to assess the cables yourself in your own setup. Subjective feedback on here is worth what you pay for it and claims often vary wildly. If you buy on line you should be covered by distance selling regs that allows you to establish if a product meets your expectation or it can be returned for refund (read the terms on supplier website). Alternatively ask a supplier if they are prepared to loan the cables for you to try.

If you obtain both cables ask a friend to help with blind comparison to avoid preconception polluting any sighted comparison. If you can reliably identify the different cables without sighted cues go with the cable you like. Assuming the comparison really is blind you are hearing a difference or are very lucky at guessing.

Personally having conducted blind assessment I was unable to reliably identify any audio difference due to the HDMI cable used. Some of the cables compared cost much more than the models you mention.

Avi
 
Last edited:

Member 410254

Active Member
Agreed, we can loan cables no problem at all so that you can try out and see for yourself. HDMI can also carry LPCM aswell as compressed bitstream.

PS i'm not up for a discussion as i've seen it too many times before :p
 
Last edited:

Avi

Distinguished Member
HDMI can also carry LPCM aswell as compressed bitstream.

Which is why I asked the question over the claim mentioned earlier. Although it's not clear to me why LPCM which is also numerical data would be altered by the HDMI cable beyond working or not working properly. Jitter attenuation and audio clock regeneration in the sink is likely to be much more critical than the HDMI cable.

Avi
 
Last edited:

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
I wonder how long before we'll be hunting down some of those 'original' Molex 'classic's' from 2004 - I heard the mid range was to die for!!'

Your having a laugh if your telling folk HDMI cables alter the Sound of a system.

Joe
 

mtunreal69

Active Member
Thank you for your replies.

I appreciate your comments custom-cable, felt it was best to ask the question and allow you to enter the discussion.

What would be the basis of cable loan? Would be interested to see if any difference is noted in these higher bracket cables.

Avi, you mention the data is only numerical, but how is that data transferred? I understand for 0's and 1's in dynamic ram is able to establish a 1 when the capacitor is above a particular charge level and anything below is 0. Is this the same situation in hdmi data transfer, whereby the data is sent in voltage sections determining 0's and 1's?

Cheers again for the responses,

Mike
 

Avi

Distinguished Member
Avi, you mention the data is only numerical, but how is that data transferred? I understand for 0's and 1's in dynamic ram is able to establish a 1 when the capacitor is above a particular charge level and anything below is 0. Is this the same situation in hdmi data transfer, whereby the data is sent in voltage sections determining 0's and 1's?

Full details can be found in section 4.2.3 of the publicly available HDMI 1.3a specification. In addition source eye diagram test procedures are defined in the HDMI compliance test specification. The later is used to determine cable compliance with official certified HDMI cable speed rating i.e. standard or high speed for a given length (see the audioholics article in post #9 above). :)

Avi
 

Andy8421

Active Member
Thank you for your replies.

Avi, you mention the data is only numerical, but how is that data transferred? I understand for 0's and 1's in dynamic ram is able to establish a 1 when the capacitor is above a particular charge level and anything below is 0. Is this the same situation in hdmi data transfer, whereby the data is sent in voltage sections determining 0's and 1's?

Cheers again for the responses,

Mike


Mike,

While in principle you are correct, getting data down an HDMI link is all a bit more complicated than that. Rather than using voltage thresholds, the HDMI link uses current flows, and instead of sending the data as simple 1s and 0s, the data is encoded to reduce DC levels on the link and to reduce RFI. Damned clever.

Have a look at:

Transition Minimized Differential Signaling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and

Current mode logic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Good luck!
 

mtunreal69

Active Member
Thank you for the recommendation TIG80, think out of interest I will take up the offer of trialling the forest and pearl cables alongside some cheaper alternatives to really get a feel for what will serve me best.

Cheers for the info chaps. Seems like the only plausible reason for different geometries and insulation types is to reduce the interference to maintain signal integrity. I think the next step with respects to hdmi selection is the flexibility and ease of connection.
 

Avi

Distinguished Member
I wonder how long before we'll be hunting down some of those 'original' Molex 'classic's' from 2004 - I heard the mid range was to die for!!'

Your having a laugh if your telling folk HDMI cables alter the Sound of a system.

Joe

I still have some of the original Molex from way back.

I love reading some of the marketing stuff by HDMI cable "brands" - "All Indulgence HDMI cables deliver 100% of the data required for 120/Hz/240Hz/600Hz displays.". So do all properly working HDMI cables given those are display refresh rates not what's transmitted over HDMI. :suicide:

Avi
 

Lourens

Novice Member
Hi Guys - I'm new to this forum.
Just a question to the guys out there that say its not worth spending money on more expensive HDMI cables as there is not really a quality difference.
Are you Audio Video installers, and have you done some extensive testing with different cables in the same environment?
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
What sort of 'testing' are you thinking of and have you hit a problem?

Joe
 

The latest video from AVForums

Star Wars Andor, Woman King, more Star Trek 4K, Rings of Power & the latest TV, movies & 4K releases
Subscribe to our YouTube channel

Latest News

Technics announces SL-G700M2 SACD and music streamer
  • By Ian Collen
  • Published
The Amazon Prime Early Access Sale 2022: 11-12 October
  • By Ian Collen
  • Published
Google set to launch the Pixel 7 and Pixel 7 Pro smartphones
  • By Ian Collen
  • Published
Focal launches Bathys noise-cancelling wireless headphones
  • By Ian Collen
  • Published
Formovie Theater UST projector hits the UK
  • By Ian Collen
  • Published

Full fat HDMI teeshirts

Support AVForums with Patreon

Top Bottom