Audiolab 8000C vs 8000A pre-amp = same?

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by Brimstone, Feb 12, 2005.

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  1. Brimstone

    Brimstone
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    Lo folks,

    I'm interested in getting an Audiolab pre/power combination and was looking at buying a 2nd hand 8000A integrated (60w) and then in the hopefully not too distant future upgrading with a 8000P power amp (100w), using the pre-amp section of the 8000A (and possibly playing with bi-amping using both available power amp's). The other option was going for a pre-power straight away with something like the 8000C pre and 8000P power combination.

    My question is this - the 8000A and the 8000C appear to have exactly the same front panel and controls - are they the same circuit and audio quality?

    If the 8000C has no extra features or improved sound quality (except perhaps cooler running without the power amp's heat, and slightly lower signal noise without the big power supply and amp running in the same case) there's no point in me considering it compared to the flexability of a ready-to-use integrated with upgrade power and bi-amping options.

    Any thoughts?

    Cheers, Mark.
     
  2. Inotrope

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    With your stated plan in mind I would definately go directly for the C/P combination, or a Q/PX combination if you can find them (there have been some bargains on eBay recently!).

    With the "A" the pre and power circuits are integrated on the same PCB and with the same PSU, therefore there is interference between the delicate pre-amp signals (small voltages) and the larger output voltages (via power amp stage).

    The reason for having seperate boxes is a) keep delicate signals (pre-amp) well away from larger signals. A power supply for both stages.

    If you have a A/P combo, the "power" section of the A is redundant space. Bear in mind that the A is a cheap amp (was £500 new) and whikst good, cannot match the pre-amp performance of the C or the Q (which of cause were more expensive).

    I originally had a 8000A/P combo, then upgraded to a 8000C and 2x 8000PX (much better!), and finally to a PA20R and 4x125M monoblocks (much more like it!).
    I wholeheartedly recommend the C/PX combo, but be sure to buy late serial models (idealy "F's").

    Enjoy!
     
  3. Bhavik

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    All the Audiolab stuff will be back on the shelves around June or so, it all looks the same which is cool but it will be finished in silver. The Audiolab 8000A is back which is a Tag Mclaren 60iRv in disguse, but for £500, there will also be a matching cd player as well for a similar price too, so I'd hang fire for a little while.

    Mark have you sourced a DPA yet? I did'nt know you where going for 4 125M's, how does it sound?

    :)
     
  4. Inotrope

    Inotrope
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    Still got the fingers crossed re: DPA... the 125M's are great - by far the best upgrade to date! I'm using some really nice power cables from www.the-missing-link.net which I can highly recommend!

    Have you got yours yet? Did you use them with the calliopes?
     
  5. Brimstone

    Brimstone
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    Thanks for your thoughts Mark,

    I just missed a good deal for a 8000C going for £100 the other day (i've been researching and scouring ebay for the last few weeks since i bought a pair of TDL Studio 1's) because i was looking for a good 8000A. The 8000Q's are out of my price range - they're going for about £350-400 at the moment (& then i also need to buy a power amp...). I think i might now re-consider and keep an eye out for a 8000C again - one of my reasons for going for the 8000A was that 8000P's are going for >£300 as well, and i wanted something i could afford right now to enjoy and test out the TDL's, while providing me with a decent upgrade path in the future (i've recently moved into a new house and there's plenty still to buy :eek: ).

    You seem to have followed a devout audiolab/tag series of upgrades, starting with the sort of system i'm presently looking at - so you are in a good position to advise and i appreciate the pointers.

    I understand the concept of the noise and power supply seperation (although i've never used pre/power amps before) but haven't experienced the difference in audible quality, and also wasn't sure if there were any other improvements or differences in the 8000C's pre-amp circuitry.

    So, I'll try and hold back my 'i want it now' child like qualities and hold out for a pre-amp and power amp combo. :D

    The next thing i'll be looking for (not for a while yet unless i see a really good deal) is a CD player of good quality and similiar price range to partner with the TDL speakers and Audiolab amp's. Any thought or recommendations? (bearing in mind, i haven't heard the TDL/Audiolab combination yet).

    I don't know if the Audiolab CD/DAX/Transport and similiar age products are getting old with respect to technology/chipset/DAC and i maybe need to look for newer models, or can they can still cut it compared to newer systems?

    Cheers, Mark.
     
  6. Brimstone

    Brimstone
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    Also,

    Did you try using the 8000A/8000P combo to bi-amp? How well did it work? I wasn't sure about the in's and out's of using different amps of different powers to bi-amp with suitable speakers with reference to levels and power ratings (ie, im not going to get any more than 60w into the tweater with the 8000A for instance just because it's bi-amped - just improvement in quality due to reduced varying demands on the amps supplies and circuits - because of less interference with the varying different power requirements at different frequency ranges of the drivers, and also varying impedances at different freq) (if that makes any sense). Not sure how crossover circuits are affected (depending on design) by bi-amping at all (shouldn't i suppose)?

    Cheers, Mark.
     
  7. TaxHamster

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    The 8000A never had a TAG McLaren version, the 60iRV was the 8000S which was a line-level remote control integrated (the 8000A did not have remote control).

    Also, the 8000A & 8000C pre-amp circuits are not the same, although they were designed by the same person so certainly share a "family heritage".

    Hope this helps....
     
  8. Bhavik

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    Yes but if you read what I have said, the brand Audiolab is coming back, in the range there is an 8000A which on the front looks identical to the original 8000A but in silver, its also a Tag 60iRv on the inside.
     
  9. Inotrope

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    I didn't rate the 8000A/P combo as much as the C/P (or C/PX) combo. I don't think the fact that the A is 60W and P is 100W (conservative) makes too much difference (and please, correct me if I am wrong!) as the tweeter has a higher sensitvity than the woofer. The crossover issue is something I've thoought a little about, as ideally, when biamping you wouldn't need one - s each speaker would produce the frequency that it is designed to (with little or no overlap).

    Anyway, prehaps I'll have provoked someone more knowledgeable to give us a definative answer!

    Regards, mark
     
  10. roversd1

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    I had a lot more access to TMA / Audiolab products than most and found that of the Audiolab range, it was beaten quite squarely by the humble 60i. The 60i 'sounded' better than the Audiolab pre/ power options.

    My personal recommendation: If you can afford/ find a DPA32R, I recommend this plus any good amplification over the older Audiolab stuff.

    Its not that I have anything against the old Audiolab range, the later TMA stuff was better and now better value too.
     
  11. Inotrope

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    Haha! Find a DPA32R? I've been struggling on that one.....

    Still have my fingers double crossed....

    Any suggestions?
    Mark
     
  12. TaxHamster

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    Hmmm, I'd be quite interested to know where you got this information from ;)
     
  13. AMCross

    AMCross
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    Mark whats your budget for a DPA32R

    and no i don't have for sale

    but i think i know where i saw one last week :thumbsup:
     
  14. AMCross

    AMCross
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    i just need to remember where :suicide:
     
  15. k_t

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    Mark - take a look at http://www.vickers-hifi.co.uk/retail/snowframe.html and click on the link for X-Dem Sale items. They have a DPA32R & CDT20R CD transport in black. Looks like they're selling the pair but who knows... :rolleyes:
     
  16. Inotrope

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    After one with the 192/24 DAC so the one at the listening rooms (London) is out... Vickers have one, but still not prepared to split (don't know any other details). Am still hoping there will be one with my name on it in a dusty corner of the TMA warehouse...
     
  17. k_t

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    Hey - you've done your homework! Don't bank on there being one in a dusty corner the TMA warehouse though - I understand that they have none left - all sold... :thumbsdow
     
  18. Inotrope

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    Yeah, they won't seperate them - as they told me in early January - and now it's Mid Feb... may be time to bargain with them!
     
  19. k_t

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    Mark - I asked them yesterday if they had any DPA32s left and I was told "all sold....." :confused: :confused: :confused:
     
  20. Brimstone

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    Thanks for all the comments and suggestions - i've now got a better idea of what im looking for and why. Unfortunately, as i have recently been unable to find any productive use for patience, i've already bought an 8000A to tide me over for playing with the TDL's for now. :D

    I can always put it back on ebay if i find the pre/power (and spare cash) i'm after at a good price (probably C & P/PX - once i see what i think of the tone/sound of the 8000A).

    Cheers, Mark.
     
  21. AMCross

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  22. Bhavik

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    Check out page 79 of the April 2005 Hi-Fi News, it has a picture of the new Audiolab 8000S in silver, looks smooth :)
     
  23. TaxHamster

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    But your OP said "....in the range there is an 8000A which on the front looks identical to the original 8000A but in silver, its also a Tag 60iRv on the inside."

    The 8000S/60iRV & 8000A (no TAG model) are not the same product.

    And I agree, they do look very nice ;)
     

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