Audio Hi-Fi Boost - Thoughts

tjsilva

Standard Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2017
Messages
39
Reaction score
5
Points
13
Age
38
Location
NYC
Hi Guys,

I've been learning tremendously from you. Thank you for that.

I gave up my bose plans and got my initial 5.1.2 set up as follows:

AV receiver Onkyo RZ-TX 820
Vizio P65-C1
klipsch RP-280FA
klipsch R-115SW (a beast)
klipsch RP-450C
klipsch RP-250S

I am amazed and now ready to explore audio hi-fi enhancements.

I am considering:

(i) a streamer, and thought about Cambridge CXN;
(ii) a CD player (ideally combined with a blue-ray), and thought about Oppo 205-D or Cambridge CXUHD 4k
(iii) a turntable, and thought about Rega Planar 1
(iv) last step would be a power amp or integrated stereo amp, not sure what would better fit the above, and thought about Cambridge CXA80 or Monoprice Monolith 2ch. Importantly, I would like to be able to hook my sub to the stereo amp.

As I am still a beginner, please let me know if the above makes any sense, or if I am missing anything.

My main target is to find a system that extracts the most from my speakers, but under a reasonable price. For instance, I would only consider Oppo 205-D over CXUHD if the difference is really worth the extra money. The same applying for the separate streamer. Would just consider it if the difference is effective. I must say though that I mostly listen to Spotify and Tidal, so a streamer is in principle a number 1 of my list.

What do you guys think?

Many thanks in advance.

Best,

Thiago
 
for a streamer you could add a Chromecast Audio and use the optical, out into the onkyo then use a pc/tablet/phone to control it and stream from spotify/deezer/nas. Cheap but effective. Runs over local wifi.
 
Thank you Ugg10, but wouldn't that be the same as streaming directly from my Onkyo? It does stream well and effectively, but I was hoping that Cambridge CXN would boost quality. Am I wrong? Thanks
 
Doh, sorry, didn't read spec of onkyo, it has chromecast already built in.
 
The quality is a factor of the DAC the data goes through not the transport mechanism, so a Chromecast connected optically would be the same as any £1000 streamer - it is just a transport device. It does not and cannot affect the quality of the data stream. Where the Chromecast does affect quality is if you use the analogue output so it uses the internal DAC which is OK but just OK.

So the question is does the Cambridge have a better internal DAC than your Onkyo? The Cambridge connected digitally to your amp would sound the same as a Chromecast connected digitally.
 
The quality is a factor of the DAC the data goes through not the transport mechanism, so a Chromecast connected optically would be the same as any £1000 streamer - it is just a transport device. It does not and cannot affect the quality of the data stream. Where the Chromecast does affect quality is if you use the analogue output so it uses the internal DAC which is OK but just OK.

So the question is does the Cambridge have a better internal DAC than your Onkyo? The Cambridge connected digitally to your amp would sound the same as a Chromecast connected digitally.

I'd go further and suggest sound 'quality' comes from the analogue implementation after the DAC - this is where I suspect the CXN wolfson
Chipset in the Cambridge audio would be a level above the AK chipset used in the Onkyo.

Larkone is correct - if you're connecting digitally between streamer and amp simply choose a streamer with ergonomics that suit or a better app.

If you go for the CXN connect using analogue and turn off any effects on the Onkyo otherwise it will take the analogue signal from the CXN and run it through another ADC defeating the objective.
 
AVR's are not renown for reproducing 2 channel music well. The AVR chassis that is crammed full of noisy electronics, compromises instrument and voice separation for music. Even with pure direct mode engaged. An integrated amp with HT bypass to power your front two speakers, which you can then use independently of the AVR for music sources, is likely to bring about the best improvements.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thank you. Whole new elements for me to learn and consider.

Basic questions:

given my system above, to have a better stereo 2 channel experience (with subwoofer), should I look for a power amp or an integrated amp?

I heard that the DACs of both the CXN streamer and Oppo 205-D are good and that I would better off getting rid of all middlemen by connecting them directly to the power amp and speakers.

If that is true, am I right to assume that the monoprice monolith would be a good option to pair with my system? In that case, would it still be possible to keep my onkyo running the 5.1.2 system and the power amp the 2ch system with the same speakers? Could I use Oppo 205-d in both systems, in the power amp to play CD and Onkyo to listen to music?

Sorry about he stupid questions, but it is hard to catch up (even though I've been reading a lot here from the forum).

Thanks in advance.
 
No such things as stupid questions, we are always learning ;)

Some factors that you might want to consider, are..

1. Where will your speakers be connected? You could have them connected to the AVR for movies and then another amp for music (integrated or power amp) and use a speaker switch to select between the two. There are not that many good quality speaker switches to choose from, the beresford one is good:

tc-7220

2. DAC's certainly can make a difference in sound quality, but usually they would need to go through a pre-amp of some kind so that you get input switching and volume control. If you are planning on using a power amp and a DAC, you will not have these features, which could be tricky.

3. A more usual solution would be to take the left and right pre-outs of an AVR into the HT bypass input of an integrated amp. When using this input the integrated amp acts as a power amp for the AVR. The speakers are connected to the integrated amp. You can then connect any DAC's that you want to the integrated amp via the other inputs and use it as a stand alone amp for music, with the AVR switched off. That way you get your input switching, a volume control and, hopefully, a nice clean pre-amp section that can reproduce your music with great voice and instrument separation, in a manner that is better than the AVR.
 
Amazing, thank you Punctilio. Very helpful. Didn't know how well integrated a system with a AVR and integrated amp could be. Following your explanation of 3 above, I wouldn't need a switcher, right (just switching off the AVR would suffice)? .

If I am following correctly, my options to pair up with my system would then be:

(i) a good pre-amp. Thought about Cambridge CXA80, Onkyo A-9070 or Yamaha A-S801BL. Reviews of the Cambridge and price look more appealing to me, but let me know if you prefer any of the other two (or something else).

(ii) CXN streamer connected using analogue (connected to the integrated amp);

(iii) blue-ray and CD. I am under the impression that if I use a single player for blue-ray and CD (such as Oppo 205-D or cambridge CXUUHD), I would have to connect it to the AVR to make use of my 5.1.2 system, right? In that case, I couldn' benefit from the integrated amp for music playing in CD. If that is the case, it may be better to buy a separate CD player, such as the Cambridge CXC? What do you guys think?

(iv) I am assuming I could plug the turnable directly into the integrated amp, right?

(v) last question, when listening to music through the integrated amp for 2ch, would I still be able to benefit from the subwoofer that is connected to the AVR?

AVR, integrated amp, blue-ray, cd, streamer, turnable...geez, is that all that it takes to have a great audio and video hi-fi experience? lol Let me know if I can reduce that anyhow haha

Thanks much!!!

Thiago
 
Lots of questions there but no (iii).

The oppo would feed the Onkyo via HDMI for surround formats. For critical stereo listening you'd feed the analogue outputs to the integrated amp (turning off the Onkyo and using a separate input other than the one use for 'unity gain HT pass through').

You could select a far cheaper BR player without all the audio gubbins of that oppo and simply feed a digital output into a CXN and take advantage of the very decent DACs in the streamer.
 
(v) last question, when listening to music through the integrated amp for 2ch, would I still be able to benefit from the subwoofer that is connected to the AVR?

Connecting thing normally - no.

However it can be done with lots of caveats in that the setup is a bit restricted and tricky and your sub needs to have to appropriate connections available for concurrent use. You may also need pre-outs on your integrated amp (or you can use the speaker connection via the sub from your amp).

Doing so will probably compromise either music or AV use or in the worse case both. With that said, I have done such a setup and while it did actually work very well and was measurably well integrated (I used the room eq wizard app to measure and calibrate etc) I did in the end abandon it and leave the sub under AVR control as my floorstanders just didn't need it even for the bass heavy music I often listen to.

Can provide details of what I did if needed.
 
Lots of great questions! You have got some good answers already.

I think that you might find it easier to go one step at a time. If you can find an integrated amp (or a pre-amp and power amp combo) that sounds great for music, and significantly better than your AVR, then you have done most of the legwork.

If you can get one with HT bypass, that makes integration with your AVR easier. Without HT bypass, is still okay, you just have to manually turn the volume knob back to a pre-set position when using the AVR. Alternatively, you could use a speaker switch and keep the two systems completely separate.

After that, choosing DAC's, streamers, and other source devices is easier, as everything *should* sound better just by going through the stereo 'musical' amp rather than the AVR, so you might find that less expensve source devices are good enough (eg the chromecast audio rather than the Cambridge streamer).

I also run my main speakers (Kef Q700) full range for music, only using the subwoofer with my AVR. But as has already been said, there is a way to share the sub between two amplifiers.
 
Everything you want to do can be achieved, I have managed the setup you describe. However, unless you have a huge budget you will probably not be able to achieve a fully matched system as something will take priority. Then, as mentioned above, you could have a compromised system. I have personally prioritised music over AV. Probably by 5:1 in terms of cost as it stands now.

I’d honestly recommend setting your priorities early.

I first did this setup with a slightly better stereo than AV and all worked and integrated very well. The stereo was a mix of one to two tiers above in the same brands. This worked well and stereo performance was notably improved.

In the various iterations of my setups, all AV the sources go through my modest AV-R. The LFE pre-out goes to my sub and L+R pre-outs go to my Stereo system in unity gain. All music sources go directly to my stereo.

My subwoofer accepts both line level and high level inputs. So, as the line level is used for AV LFE (sub crossover set to LFE bypass for line level), I feed my stereo into the high level input and use the gain and crossover settings to trim this to only slightly reinforce my deepest stereo bass. A better amplifier lifts bass performance of existing speakers notably in my experience. So, stereo subwoofer integration isn’t essential.

This all works, and the AV-R’s auto setup brings everything together very well. However, there are certainly compromises. After upgradeitus my present stereo is significantly better than my AV setup (for financial reasons and prioritising stereo), my front three speakers don’t even match. Also, the shortcomings of my AV-R’s internal amplification were shown up compared to a much higher quality power amp in my stereo... So, I ended up adding a centre power amp and now I’m happy. Well, almost... The centre is bi-amped and now I want to bi-amp my stereo...

It’s a potentially everlasting upgrade journey... ;)

Though, if you have a plan you can achieve everything you want and it can work very nicely indeed.
 

The latest video from AVForums

Is 4K Blu-ray Worth It?
Subscribe to our YouTube channel
Back
Top Bottom