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Attention DIY'ers; Light Fusion is here!

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by MississippiMan, Oct 15, 2004.

  1. MississippiMan

    MississippiMan
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    ...and you can thank your good friend and fellow AVS'er PeterJK.

    I've been actively pursuing advanced DIY projects "On Forum" for just over 2 years now, and the end results have been somewhat gratifying. Early on, I was a "High Contrast" advocate, utilizing Gray-based applications with affordable but 'contrast challanged' LCD PJs (PLV-70, Z1, Panny 300, etc)

    I quickly grew tired of the dull, clipped, and crushed imagery, and elevated my science to duplicating and improving on the basic idea behind Goo, after having tried the stuff on a X1 installation and a 6' x 8' 4:3 "Painted on the Wall" screen. Trouble was, I barely had enought to effect that application, and the price just stuck in my craw something awful. Good stuff it seems, but so is Beluga, but I don't spend for that either.

    Sooooo, after mulling it over for a while, off I went to Home Depot, and multi-purpose Home Improvement store here in the States, and by mixing three seperate ingredients together, I not only manged to clone GOO, I went it one or two steps better. I exhibited a 110" "painted Wall" screen,at a local Home Show, and the general consensus was that everybody thought it was a 9' diagonal Plasma TV.

    Yeah, I know..., that's silly, but the fact was, unless you looked up and noticed the PJ (...a IF 7200 Clone OEM'ed to Toshiba) it was easy to assume such. But by posting such comments, I quickly started quite the controversy, and acquired some vehemently expressed 'opinions' from both Plasma owners, and PJ/Screen owners alike.

    A little background: I have 26 Invisible Stereo Dealers (I last "showed' in the UK at Cedia 97-London) in the US, and several "Furrin" Dealers from Canada to New Zealand. It was / is in my best interest, and thiers, for thier Factory Rep to come up with a Killer Proj. / Screen application that was both afforadable and performed far in excess of the cost involved.

    The paint mix I concocted did exactly that. Some enlightened AVS'er named the sludge after my "Handle"

    MississippiMud

    This mix does the following:

    A. Exhibit intense but equal reflection tendencies, that result in "NO" viewing cone "at all"

    B. Delivers "Spot On" color, with absolutely no shifting.

    C. Masks SDE and other Video noise and artifacts, smoothing any image significantly enough to effectively eliminate such terrors from any viewing experience that takes place at least 1:1 viewing distance from the screen.

    Just the above would be sufficent for one to set back and collect the lucre, but not in this case, for this formula was created by me for, and is being used by, the DIY genre EVERYWHERE.

    But since one of my first advanced DIY projects was the use of a faux Silver Metallic (SM) base covered with MMud just enough that the SM's reflectivity and Gray-based contrast attributes could contibute to the end image, and that application was significantly better than MMud alone, the wheels turned, a gear clanked into place, and in conjunction with my Partner in this Crime, CMRA, Light Fusion was born.

    Light Fusion: i.e.

    The use of a .112mm thick Plastic Mirror of appreciable size that is then spray coated with MMud Mix just to the point where the Mirror's reflectivity and Gray hue dissappears.

    Dissappears, but is not forgotten or left to lie fallow.

    Just as a window pane painted white for privacy still lets the intense light of the Sun shine through, the intense beam of light from a 1000 lumen+ PJ not only paints an initial image upon the Top coat of MMud, the light that escapes through the rear then reflects back the .112 distance and "Re-Fuses" with the initial image. Mirrors always reflect light darker than received, and hence is the original reason for the concept; to enhance blacks levels and overall contrast, without reducing on-screen luminosity or crushing whites & colors.

    Well my friends, it did that, and so very much more.

    A. Colors became more intensely saturated but also more evenly presented due to addional contrast elements. 3-D ism became a reality!

    B. Light distibution became almost perfect across the screen's surface. The .118 gap that the light was scattering about in also became much like a neon tube, resulting in an image that resembles nothing if not a Backlit 35 mm Slide. Also, the impossible occured. The perfect viewing cone of MMud was topped by LF. Now, the image also looked virtually perfect at any viewable angle. Surreallistically so.

    C. Now...., there absolutely NO trace of SDE or Artifacts of any type when viewing HD sources, even at 110" + and when viewed from less than 1/3rd a meter away. And non-HD sources looked smooth as well, from only 1 meter back from the screen.

    All this might be a little hard to swallow, but what with all the documentation and the fabulous Screen shots that exist of every imaginable source material, the proof in not only in the Pudding, it's in the can.

    And still, even with such MFG Screen Industry shaking results, Light Fusion as well is and was ment to be my gift to DIY'ers everywhere. For 27 years I've made my living creating unique and afforable sound systems with Audio Transducers. (Sound Bug...., Bah! Just a Toy.) Invisible Stereo as it were. All my efforts "on Forum" are dedicated and perserved for the spirt of DIY'ism. I feel the need to give back, so there lies my motive, pure and simple.

    So......, you'll never have to worry about Light Fusion getting gobbled up by some MFG and sold for 2000 pounds just because it makes ANY decent PJ, LCD or DLP, D-ila, or even CRTs deliver images so stunning, it defys description.

    Still, I hope I did a pretty good job. :blush:

    heres a taste........

    110" diagonal Light Fusion Mirror Screen
    1000 Lumen DLP PJ w/1700:1 CR HD-2 Chip (Studio Experience 50-HD)
    Zenith DVD (...a under $200.00 cheapo no less!)
    Component Out but NOT using 480p..., only the upconversion provided within the PJ itself.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Ok.....I'll stop.

    These are just a taste. If this thread shows the response I think it should, will, you all will not find yourself waiting for more info and instructions. I've already found paints avalable in the UK that should work just fine. All I have to do is go back and search through abou 150 pages of posts over three threads to find the photo of the can's lables. That's all.

    But for my British DIY Bretheren, can any effort truly be too much?

    I think not.

    MississippiMan

    PS, Yell if All Ya All want to see more Screen shots.

    No Nikon or Canon is my Digi-Cam. Just a 4.2 MP Toshiba M-81. 3 years old.
    I set it on Auto, and upload the images directly onto my server, who automatically resizes them. What you see is what the camera saw, and captured.
     
  2. cyberheater

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    These pics do look truly stunning.

    Please detail the exact steps that you came up with.

    Where can I get a largish plexiglass mirror from?

    etc...

    Brilliant.
     
  3. RichMercer

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    The picture certainly looks good. I'm interested to know more. What's the catch?
     
  4. dupontin

    dupontin
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    The mirrored plastic can be found at:

    http://www.westwardplastics.co.uk/d_selector.php?cat=glazing&subcat1=Acrylic%&subcat2=Mirror

    Mirror Acrylic Sheet 2400mm x 1200mm x 3mm £98.36
    + delivery

    If anyone knows of somewhere cheaper post it here please !!!
    I dont know this company so cannot vouch for them yet

    MississippiMan your gift to DIY'ers is the stuff legends are made from...
    Or would a simple Thank You do ?

    My only question is:
    Can you please post the details of the British paints you found to be equivalent
    I've just bought some goo. oh well someone will buy it.

    Your explanation of the light refraction is very good but I dont understand about the blacks....
    "perfect" blacks or near to it should be the absence of light, surely the reflected light will produce a lesser black ? maybe I'm wrong ?

    Thanks regards
    Mike
     
  5. avanzato

    avanzato
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    I've seen some of this over at avsforum and I'm very interested in the idea. My trials with alu paint didn't work well and your concept looks from the pictures to be well sorted.

    I admit I haven't read all the threads over there so these questions may already have been answered, but here goes anyway. Is there a special plastic needed for the mirror? the ones I've found after a very quick search range from £100-£200 for 8ft wide depending on whether it's an acrylic or polycarb base and is the 'Mud' easy to spray. Would I need to get specialist gear, hire someone to do it or would an airless sprayer do the job?
     
  6. cyberheater

    cyberheater
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    I think the Mudd coating method would be critical. It really would have to be put on extremely evenly.
    How easy would that be for the average diyer.

    I wonder if you could use really thin transparent paper?

    Also, a cheap source of acrylic mirror sheets are a must have.

    I would have to do some experiments on smaller samples before I attempted to muck up a large one.
     
  7. RichMercer

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    Indeed, personally having no experience with spraying, this is something that I would have do a lot of practice with first. I'd hate to screw it up on the first attempt when the acrylic sheet is best part of £100!!!
     
  8. cyberheater

    cyberheater
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    Can someone please post the exact method used for this.

    I also wonder if you could buy some really cheap acrylic sheets and spray paint the backside chrome from a automotive spraycan etc...

    That might work out a lot cheaper if a large sheet of acrylic mirror is 100 pounds!
     
  9. RichMercer

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    It could be worth getting a small amount of acrylic and spraying it with a small can of Hummel model paint. You could test the theory for about a fiver then. At least you could check its effectiveness at creating a mirror effect.
     
  10. CrispyXUK

    CrispyXUK
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    Well im sure that we all wouldnt need 2400mm x 1200mm screens so we could all go "2's" on preping & building a screen then cut it to our desired lengths
     
  11. RichMercer

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    I'm not sure about that. I'm looking at a 6' wide screen which is 1820mm but that makes the height 1023mm so you're not going to get two screens out of that piece.
     
  12. avanzato

    avanzato
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    This was the place I found (so far) with the biggest selection online Westward plastics

    Clear acrylic is almost as expensive as mirrored for the same thickness which seems to be 3mm at most places. I can't find any .112 mm thick as specced in MississippiMan's start to this thread so I'm assuming he meant that measurement in 'American' inches.
     
  13. RichMercer

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    Well 0.112 inches is basically 3mm so I guess your right about that avanzato. Besides, I think 0.112mm might be just a little flimsy. ;)
     
  14. Darwock

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    When I follow that westward plastics link through to the order page I can only see clear, white and opal - no sign of mirrored even though it is mentioned on the previous page? edit - never mind, saw it under special products.

    Also a thought on this, surely using a mirror as the basis is going to give you a very high gain screen.. and I thought the recommendation with LCD was to have a gain < 1? I can see from the pics how good it looks, just doesn't fit with the theory I'd heard. 2nd edit - of course, those pics were created with a DLP :D
     
  15. Hawklan

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    Hi

    This looks very interesting I have recently purchased a JVC DLAG15 Dila projector and contract is the only weak area in these projectors so anything that can appear to improve contrast is very much a +

    Many thanks

    RON
     
  16. MississippiMan

    MississippiMan
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    Lots of good questions.

    Here are some answers.

    First as to the Blacks; Any mirror reflects back light at less than the luminosity level that it receives. The acrylic Mirror's reflectivity value is approx 92% When the Projected light strikes the MMud surface, and some passes through, it intensity is lessened by at least 1/2. When reflected by the mirror, it is further lessened, resulting in any color being displayed as darker than the original hue at the surface. When such light "re-fuses" with the surface light, the result in the darker light spectrums is that the overall hue is in fact darkened. Grayish Blacks become Blacker. Colors become saturated without blooming. Subtle contrast becomes more defined, creating a distinct apperance of curvature that defines 3-demensionality.

    Mirror Thickness; Do not attempt to increase the thickness of the Mirror. At .118 (that DOES equate to 3-4 mm ) the reflected light does not travel far enough to create any image shifting ( Double Vision ) 1/4" will work, but you viewing distance must be increased by 25% to allow for a melding of the image. One of the spectacular aspects of Light Fusion is the ability to discard convention "Distance to screen" ratios and go right ahead and view the image at a 1:1 ratio This has never been possible before, but it is now. The equal distribution of light, combined with the absence of screen pixelation & artifacts (SDE) means that even with you field of vision virtually filled, there is absolutely no issues as far as focusing, eyestrain, or image clarity. It is as if the image before you is a natural part of the environment.

    Mirror Mounting; If the size selected is below the deminsions of 4' x 8' (US), then the mirror can be glued* to any applicable substrate. I use 1/4" Tempered Hardboard (* use only a "Mirror Approved" adheasive) Recently, due to the increase in the neccesity of making the glueing process easier (...apply the beads of glue too thick and you get ridges on a .118 thick material...) I have arranged for mirrors to be produced with a Self Adheasive backing. Just "Peel & Stick". It adds approx $25.00 US to the cost, but it takes 1/2 that amount in "Caulk Tube" adheasive anyway, and with the sticky back, there is NO possibility of ridges.

    Using other Transparent material for a coating; Good luck. It's the proper combination of both a White Oxide coloring AND a Translucent base that makes LF work. That and a evenly applied coat of the proper thickness. But if MississippiMan was to NOT encourage experimentation, it would be strange indeed. So go ahead...experiment, but as suggested within, do so on small pieces of material. But not TOO small. Ideally, no smaller than 1/8th the size of the screen, or the effect will not be substancial enough to effectively judge if your experimentation is a success.

    Method of application; Spraying with a HVLP Gun is by far the only 'true' way to obtain both a accurate amount of paint on the mirror, as well as a featureless, texture-free smooth finish. I use a 5 HP - 17 Gallon capacity Compressor,(...a bigger capicity Compressor if much Mo Bedder!) and a Ingersoll Rand HLVP Gun w/Gun Monted Requlator. At the Compressor's outlet you must use a Water/Rust Filter to avoid getting water in the spray, resulting in "Fish Eyes".

    Overall, the idea that several enthusiasts combine forces and arrainge for a Painting Party over a weekend works wonderfully. If all parties (5 is an ideal number.) share the expense of a Compressor rental/purchase, a proper HVLP Gun, and an adaquate place to spray is arrainged, the shared cost becomes quite tractable.

    I'm currently arrainging just sort of that thing in both Stockholm,Sweden & Vancouver, BC , that will also include my presence to effect the actual work. (I'm a Slave to Light Fusion!) My airfare is only $614.00 to Stockholm, and $450.00 to B.C. , so divided between 5 souls, it's been adjudged to be worth it as opposed to the "I tried & died" method. (...I'm from Mississippi...someone can put me up in the Barn.) In the States, I sell LF screens to AVS'er who request them because they are hopelessly inept, or dreadfully afraid of failure, for $500.00 + shipping. To my Residential Clients they go out for $1000.00. (...for approx 5 hours work...not too bad :zonked: ) But guilt is not for me, because they get 110" screens viewable from 10' back, that easily compare to both a Stewart StudioTek 130 and a Vutec SilverStar. Actually, one can compare a Light Fusion screen to a melding of the best qualities of both, for much less than either. Plus, they are totally customized to the individual application, sized down to the .mm desired, and trimmed to individual's taste.

    Contibutions for my labor are not required, but will be gladfully accepted. :smashin:

    My desire is to get as many LF's out there, and let as many people as possible become intimately aquainted with the actual process so that there can be many more of you out there to spead the LF equation. If that means my presence will assure initial success, and further such efforts in an accelerated manner, then so be it.

    Of course, to me, it all seems like so much playtime, not work. I can effectively complete a screen in 5 hours. For some, it take 3 days.
    So many more LF's would already be in existance save for the fear of failure, undue personal experimentation, and the daunting prospect of acquiring the Spray gear. A collective effort eliminates those concerns.

    My intent today was to post some of my latest HDTV photos, and start a detailed but concise explanation of the entire process. but this tome has ate away at my available time. I must be present at my Home Show in 45 minutes and I have not yet even uploaded a single photo to my server.

    All ya All can just wait until you rise tomorrow to be a'catchin' all dat.

    MississippiMan

    OK..., here is a Ambient Light shot of Nemo, taken from almost 20' away. The actual light in the room is a little brighter, as is the screen image, but from the distance taken, the Digicam's CCD tends to equalize it all out. No excuses here though. I encourage anyone to top it. Such spirited and good natured compitition is the underlying reason DIY has become a driving force on the US AVS forums. My "War" with CMRA, another DIY Screen Pioneer is what brought LF to the forefront, and all due credit must also go to him, for although I am considered to be the originator of the Concept & Idea, the Knave was the first to produce one on a little 44" x 88" Closet Door mirror, shortly after I stopped by and produces essentially the same thing using Clear Plexi coated on the back with Silver Metallic and the front with MMud. I at first Poo Pooed the Glass mirror idea as being too costly, dangerous, and not in keeping with the DIY ideal. But the results were exemplary enough that I went looking for a "glass' substitute and true Light Fusion was born.

    Since then, I personally have produced over 30 LF screens.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Darwock

    Darwock
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    Any word on how to make the UK equivalent of this mmud paint?
     
  18. stuthemong

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    what a lovely idea. £99 for a 240cm wide screen + paint (guess £50), + labour FREE :) - when i get my z3/ae700\hs50 ill be giving LF a go i think missisipi man, it sounds to me like youll get a sort of flourescing effect with the light 're-verb' behind the front screen. nice :) :)

    i await more details with intrigue.

    Incidnetally, how does the screen look displaying text/desktops. the 're-verb' must soften the image - though as you seem to have hinted at, if you select the correct thickness mirror, you shouldnt spill into neigbouring pixels too much.

    I like this idea :)
     
  19. MississippiMan

    MississippiMan
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    These paints were sourced by a UK AVS'er Since the Mfg is British, even if they are locally unavailable, having them shipped within the Commonwealth should be easier than from a US source.

    The only choice to these paints is that I'd reccomend Exterior Flat Latex, not Interior. Exterior has U/V filtering elements that work well with incandesent bulb dervived light, and the paint is somewhat more resistant to abuse.


    As to Text, one of the main test to determine if you have just the right amount of paint overlaying the Mirror is to put up the PJ's menu. If the text has any halo-ing, add a thin coat Crisp and Bright? Leave it be!

    [​IMG]
     
  20. RichMercer

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    So who's gonna be first try this then?
     
  21. CrispyXUK

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    were do we start?
     
  22. RichMercer

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    As far as I can tell, these paints are only available in Australia and New Zealand. They are not shown at all on the .co.uk website.
     
  23. MississippiMan

    MississippiMan
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    Someone act as the organizational whip, and arrainge for 5 individuals who can collaborate on the expenses & details. If the idea floats, and 5 LF screens and thier owners who have wittnessed. participated in thier making can then advocate the concept, my job will be done, and the Isle with know that something spectacular has occured.

    Individuals can email me at nvisible@midsouth.rr.com for personalized help anytime, but initially, a LF Painting Clinic for 5, and attended by anyone else who cares to can cut through the fog and expidite the whole discovery process. It'll be cheaper per individual as well.
     
  24. RichMercer

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    I've found this one available in the uk. Click the 'Scumble Glaze Pearlescent' Product. That seems similar to the top of the ones above.
     
  25. avanzato

    avanzato
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    As the images refuse to appear on my comp. at the moment could someone just write down what the paint brands are?
     
  26. RichMercer

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    Dulux Wash & Wear 101 Super Acrylic Low Sheen
    Dulux Wash & Wear 101 Super Acrylic Flat
    Dulux Pearlustre Effects (translucent)
     
  27. Darwock

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    And these are... mixed? Or sprayed one at a time? If mixed, is it equal parts of each?

    And going by the name of the paints, they sound like brands rather than colours (although I'm not a big painter, lol). If you ask for Pearlustre do they just give you a tin or do you have to state which colour you want.
     
  28. stuthemong

    stuthemong
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    i cannot get involved at this point, perhaps in 2 months i will be in a position to play, but certainly not before then (i need a proj 1st :))

    Stu

    what is 'crisp and brite'?
     
  29. Darwock

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    I think he means if the text is crisp and bright, leave it alone.
     
  30. stuthemong

    stuthemong
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    Darwock, ahhhh i gotcha. if there is haloing add more paint, if not, job done (JD)

    Stu
     

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