Atmos speaker location

HendersonD

Standard Member
15 years ago I built a dedicated home theater with 7.1 surround. I am now to changing it over to a 7.2.4 Atmos setup. I will be using 4 in ceiling RSL C34E speakers for Atmos. I am bit uncertain exactly where to install these speakers even after reading the Dolby Atmos Home Theater Installation Guidelines. Any help would be appreciated
This shows the front to back locations of the 4 speakers. I feel confident in this choice since it follows Dolby guidelines for placing Atmos speaker approximately 45 degree forward and backward from the main seating area

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This shows Dolby guidelines for placing Atmos speakers side to side. They recommend lining them up with the L & R front speakers. In my theater these two speakers are spread quite far apart since I have an 8 foot wide projection screen putting the Atmos speakers quite far apart and fairly close to the side walls
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This shows the Atmos speakers distributed evenly from side to side across the room
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HendersonD

Standard Member
I re-read the Dolby recommendations and they suggest the side to side distance between the Atmos speakers be 0.5 to 0.7 of the room width. This would put the Atmos speakers in line with my rear surrounds (0.5) or front L&R (0.7). This is either 30" from the side wall or 41" from the side wall of my theater
 

Conrad

Moderator
I have a similar problem, in line with the mains is too wide and evenly distributed (1/3rds) is too narrow.

I think I'm going to follow the same rules as for spotlights, twice the distance between them as to the wall, so 1/4 width. Looks like that might work well for you?

I'll put them over the end seats though, are those seats used much? One of the "rules" in the trinnov whitepaper is that no speaker should be on the wrong side of a listener, so nobody should have a left rear surround on their right, for example. It looks like you're already doing that a bit with your rears?

Another option would be to draw a line from main to rear surround and place the atmos along that line. That would give a smooth and straight transition from front to rear and would look nice too.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
I re-read the Dolby recommendations and they suggest the side to side distance between the Atmos speakers be 0.5 to 0.7 of the room width. This would put the Atmos speakers in line with my rear surrounds (0.5) or front L&R (0.7). This is either 30" from the side wall or 41" from the side wall of my theater


Left atmos speaker should be left for every seat, right should be left for every seat.

distance between atmos speakers = sound stage. how far a bird will fly around your room.

I'm re jiggling my atmos and I'll put mine a bit closer to my fronts than you have but with the tweeter pointed at listener (as per trinnov guide recc)
 

Conrad

Moderator
distance between atmos speakers = sound stage. how far a bird will fly around your room.
I completely agree but, for me, I need to be careful with this.
If the speakers are too far apart I feel like i can hear things "jump" from one speaker to the next, so I would go as close as you can while sticking with the "left is always left, right is always right" rule.

For me that true for side to side as well as back to front, which is why I'll go .6 in a room that probably doesn't need it.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
I completely agree but, for me, I need to be careful with this.
If the speakers are too far apart I feel like i can hear things "jump" from one speaker to the next, so I would go as close as you can while sticking with the "left is always left, right is always right" rule.

For me that true for side to side as well as back to front, which is why I'll go .6 in a room that probably doesn't need it.

Good point mate. Which speakers are you using for atmos? My 1961s seem to have a pretty wind soundstage and don't suffer from that as much. Not sure if the dispersion of the tweeter would have any advantages when coming to it.

I need to buy a new processor at some point (probably 2-3 years time when HDMI 2.1 is sorted) and go .6
 

Conrad

Moderator
I'm using B&W CCM683 and to be fair I haven't heard it with them, I have heard it with other systems including the wall mounted speakers I was using before (DM600) which were badly placed.
 
Mmm. Interesting about every Atmos speaker should be left or right of every seat. That’s not the layout in commercial cinemas. I think it’s very dependent on the width of your home cinema and the number of seats you have in each row.

I would take the placement guidance with a pinch of salt. Dolby have changed their guidance on speaker placement many times over the years.

The left/right ceiling placement in the second diagram is the one I’d be going for. I always take the view that I’m more interested in delivering the best experience to people in the primary seats. You shouldn’t worry as much about the edge cases, as doing so will adversely effect the primary seats. There are always going to be some compromises.

Looks like a great room 😁.

Regards,
James.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Mmm. Interesting about every Atmos speaker should be left or right of every seat. That’s not the layout in commercial cinemas. I think it’s very dependent on the width of your home cinema and the number of seats you have in each row.

I would take the placement guidance with a pinch of salt. Dolby have changed their guidance on speaker placement many times over the years.

The left/right ceiling placement in the second diagram is the one I’d be going for. I always take the view that I’m more interested in delivering the best experience to people in the primary seats. You shouldn’t worry as much about the edge cases, as doing so will adversely effect the primary seats. There are always going to be some compromises.

Looks like a great room 😁.

Regards,
James.

I mean, it entirely makes sense and follows Dolby's guidelines.

If the left atmos speaker is in the middle or near the middle of the room, this means the person sitting far left will perceive that sound coming from his right (and not his left). It also means the person in the middle has a far more narrow soundstage from above, and the L&R atmos speakers will be playing sound out of sync with the surrounds for what was deciding on the mixing floor by the sound designers.

This leads to very very inaccurate soundstage and setting as the atmos mix was designed to have this in place.

A decent pair of atmos speakers should have excellent stereo imaging. My arendal 1961s can form sound above my head by being on the L&R which is probably down to the speaker design tilt and the wave guide.

Sure, we can play around with speaker positions to taste and not every room is perfect to have the best placement of speakers - but the rules and logic are pretty clear.

I can only assume commercial cinema's make gigantic compromises on sound and speaker placement because they need to cater to 1000 people whilst in our home cinema's, we're catering to 3-8 people. Therefore we can more accurately and concisely place speakers to map the most accurate and faithful representation whilst a cinema doesn't have that luxury. If they were to only place an atmos speaker far right and far left, then I'm sure the stereo imaging of the middle seats would be difficult given the size of a cinema.

Also generally I wouldn't use a commercial cinema as a parameter or measure of good audio. My speaker setup is fairly modest but from a sound quality perspective, every single person who's used my setup has said its better than every cinema they've been in from a SQ and especially bass perspective which they describe as on another level (thank you HB and 6 drivers).

I don't think many users here have rooms the size of a cinema to worry about what commercial cinema's need to (and for those with bigger rooms 6M+ width, I think this is where a Trinnov and a VOG channel will really help).

 
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kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
P.S. Of course we can all only do what we can in our rooms. If someone can't fit Atmos speakers into the perfect solutions, its not big deal. I couldn't fit rears into anywhere near perfect positions and has to basically map rears so its perfect for 2-3 seats and awful for the other 2. But since 99.5% of the time, I'm the only person who uses the room, I don't mind.
 

eddiemg24

Novice Member
I mean, it entirely makes sense and follows Dolby's guidelines.

If the left atmos speaker is in the middle or near the middle of the room, this means the person sitting far left will perceive that sound coming from his right (and not his left). It also means the person in the middle has a far more narrow soundstage from above, and the L&R atmos speakers will be playing sound out of sync with the surrounds for what was deciding on the mixing floor by the sound designers.

This leads to very very inaccurate soundstage and setting as the atmos mix was designed to have this in place.

A decent pair of atmos speakers should have excellent stereo imaging. My arendal 1961s can form sound above my head by being on the L&R which is probably down to the speaker design tilt and the wave guide.

Sure, we can play around with speaker positions to taste and not every room is perfect to have the best placement of speakers - but the rules and logic are pretty clear.

I can only assume commercial cinema's make gigantic compromises on sound and speaker placement because they need to cater to 1000 people whilst in our home cinema's, we're catering to 3-8 people. Therefore we can more accurately and concisely place speakers to map the most accurate and faithful representation whilst a cinema doesn't have that luxury. If they were to only place an atmos speaker far right and far left, then I'm sure the stereo imaging of the middle seats would be difficult given the size of a cinema.

Also generally I wouldn't use a commercial cinema as a parameter or measure of good audio. My speaker setup is fairly modest but from a sound quality perspective, every single person who's used my setup has said its better than every cinema they've been in from a SQ and especially bass perspective which they describe as on another level (thank you HB and 6 drivers).

I don't think many users here have rooms the size of a cinema to worry about what commercial cinema's need to (and for those with bigger rooms 6M+ width, I think this is where a Trinnov and a VOG channel will really help).

I was looking at the Arendale 1961 up firing Atmos speakers for my Snell towers. I tried Klipsch but just was not happy with the effect. As I only 6 and half feet tall ceilings I thought upfront speakers would be my best bet. Anyway cn you give me a quick review of the Afrendales for my purpose.
 

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