Atmos additions for PMC / Naim / Denon based system in difficult room

srwmusic

Novice Member
Good afternoon folks,

Long time reader, first time posting. Thanks in advance for any help you guys can give.

Existing Setup:

Denon AVR X4500H (This runs the Centre and Rear Surround speakers)
Naim Uniti Nova (This runs the Front Left and Right speakers using the AV passthrough function)

PMC twenty5.23s (Front Left and Right speakers)
PMC C (Centre speaker)
Bowers and Wilkins M1s (Rear Surround speakers)

I am looking to add Atmos to my existing 5.1 system. I have certain restrictions as will be more apparent in the photos I've posted (meet Buddy the dog!). My AV amp has the appropriate channels and I'd love to use them. My question is, what is the best way to achieve atmos given the following restrictions:

1. There is pipework on the front right wall which prevents mounting down firing speakers, unless you place it on the inside of the pipes, narrowing the spread.

2. The walls are stone and cabling cannot be hidden.

3. It is a flat and I cannot access the ceiling for in-ceiling installation.

4. The listening position is backed up against a wall.

As you can tell, and see, none of my setup is ideally placed (please don't judge me for the PMC stuck in a corner!) but, for now, it is all I have to work with. Am I best off finding an upfiring speaker to place on top of the fronts? In which case they can't be any wider than 16cm in order to fit on top without making the PMCs look like they're wearing hats. Or do I place down firing speakers on the wall in the narrow position? Or...upfiring speakers on top of the cabinet? Or....?

Any suggestions would be very welcome indeed.

Thank you

Steve

IMG_8488.jpg


IMG_8489.jpg
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Best would be overhead speakers and in your case on-ceiling. Example wife friendly small white pair of Kef T101s. See the link below where they used T301 on-ceiling, if you google translate the site they liked the effects more with them than the Kef R50 which were one of the best upfiring models in the market. The effects would come directly where they suppose to come, no tweaking with levels/angling/bringing speakers or couch forward for sweet spot the typical stuff with upfiring speakers.


33cm length x 14cm width x 3,5cm depth so this is super slim option!


You would need to hide wires with trunking:
 

Apone

Well-known Member
Nice system. If I was in your shoes I would not have 3 different speaker signatures in the system (PMC/B&W/A N Othter) if possible.

Instead I would maybe look at getting some PMC DB1 (new or second hand) as the rear speakers and see if the existing M1 can be repurposed as Atmos speakers.

The only thing is whether or not you would like the aesthetics of the M1's on the ceiling and maybe the DB1's would be bigger than the existing M1's as well and that would work for you.

The KEF T101 option will look the best for sure but as I say, you will have 3 different brands of speaker in the system (Many people do have this and they are happy) and this is just my take on it. YMMV

The R50's are nice but would kill the nice clean look of those PMC's imo (and not sound as good as having ceiling mounted down firing speakers).
 

srwmusic

Novice Member
Best would be overhead speakers and in your case on-ceiling. Example wife friendly small white pair of Kef T101s. See the link below where they used T301 on-ceiling, if you google translate the site they liked the effects more with them than the Kef R50 which were one of the best upfiring models in the market. The effects would come directly where they suppose to come, no tweaking with levels/angling/bringing speakers or couch forward for sweet spot the typical stuff with upfiring speakers.


33cm length x 14cm width x 3,5cm depth so this is super slim option!


You would need to hide wires with trunking:
Thank you. I’ll take a look at that link. Much appreciated.
 

srwmusic

Novice Member
Nice system. If I was in your shoes I would not have 3 different speaker signatures in the system (PMC/B&W/A N Othter) if possible.

Instead I would maybe look at getting some PMC DB1 (new or second hand) as the rear speakers and see if the existing M1 can be repurposed as Atmos speakers.

The only thing is whether or not you would like the aesthetics of the M1's on the ceiling and maybe the DB1's would be bigger than the existing M1's as well and that would work for you.

The KEF T101 option will look the best for sure but as I say, you will have 3 different brands of speaker in the system (Many people do have this and they are happy) and this is just my take on it. YMMV

The R50's are nice but would kill the nice clean look of those PMC's imo (and not sound as good as having ceiling mounted down firing speakers).
Thank you for your reply.

As far as I understand it, atmos speakers treat audio in a different way than standard speakers. Dolby have to ‘approve’ them in order to be classified as atmos speakers apparently. The M1s are not ‘proper’ atmos speakers obviously. How much this matters I’m not sure.

I’ll have a look at the PMCs you mentioned. Believe me, I would love to have PMC all round! If PMC made an atmos speaker it would be a no brainer.
 

Dolus

Active Member
Thank you for your reply.

As far as I understand it, atmos speakers treat audio in a different way than standard speakers. Dolby have to ‘approve’ them in order to be classified as atmos speakers apparently. The M1s are not ‘proper’ atmos speakers obviously. How much this matters I’m not sure.

I’ll have a look at the PMCs you mentioned. Believe me, I would love to have PMC all round! If PMC made an atmos speaker it would be a no brainer.
The only speakers that are 'Dolby Atmos speakers' are the up firing ones. In ceiling, on ceiling and wall mounted height speakers are just speakers. If not I am in trouble as all my speakers are identical. :)
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Thank you for your reply.

As far as I understand it, atmos speakers treat audio in a different way than standard speakers. Dolby have to ‘approve’ them in order to be classified as atmos speakers apparently. The M1s are not ‘proper’ atmos speakers obviously. How much this matters I’m not sure.

I’ll have a look at the PMCs you mentioned. Believe me, I would love to have PMC all round! If PMC made an atmos speaker it would be a no brainer.

If you look what people have in-ceiling vs base level speakers even in very expensive dedicated HT room systems they rarely are matching brands so you surely free to choose what fits best to your room without worrying too much of the tonality, that ain`t going to be issue! If you looking visually best route then Kef T101/301 in white is quite hard to beat, they should have wide dispersion so should work well for Atmos same as they do for surround channels.

@trevdigital is using the T101 as surrounds (x4) with the big Q ranges at front. He said: I was worried that the T101’s would be a bit weak for surrounds but they hold their own and create a richer than expected rear surround stage.

f6ff281e-89d8-48bb-a464-eea35bc0e236-jpeg.950048
 

srwmusic

Novice Member
If you look what people have in-ceiling vs base level speakers even in very expensive dedicated HT room systems they rarely are matching brands so you surely free to choose what fits best to your room without worrying too much of the tonality, that ain`t going to be issue! If you looking visually best route then Kef T101/301 in white is quite hard to beat, they should have wide dispersion so should work well for Atmos same as they do for surround channels.

@trevdigital is using the T101 as surrounds (x4) with the big Q ranges at front. He said: I was worried that the T101’s would be a bit weak for surrounds but they hold their own and create a richer than expected rear surround stage.

f6ff281e-89d8-48bb-a464-eea35bc0e236-jpeg.950048
Thanks. I appreciate your input. I’ll take a look at the KEFs.
 

JustinT350

Active Member
I'd start with front height speakers, and run the cables up where the pipes run, which will help hide the cable?

Rear heights, I'd run two cables up in the back corner of your room in a descreet trunking, with one cable then running along between the back wall and ceiling
 

srwmusic

Novice Member
I'd start with front height speakers, and run the cables up where the pipes run, which will help hide the cable?

Rear heights, I'd run two cables up in the back corner of your room in a descreet trunking, with one cable then running along between the back wall and ceiling
Thanks Justin. My issue with having them at the front is that they’ve either got to be small enough to go between the pipes and the wall (on the right side) or they have to be fairly close together...maybe too close for decent stereo spread.
 

JustinT350

Active Member
Hard to tell from the pic, but how wide is the space between the wall and the pipe?

I've just fit Dali Alteco in a similar layout and they are not flush with the wall. They have rubber feet between the speaker and wall so might actually work. You could even position one over the top of the pipework
 

srwmusic

Novice Member
Hard to tell from the pic, but how wide is the space between the wall and the pipe?

I've just fit Dali Alteco in a similar layout and they are not flush with the wall. They have rubber feet between the speaker and wall so might actually work. You could even position one over the top of the pipework
It’s 15 cm.
 

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