ATC SCM40 Floorstanding Loudspeaker Review & comments

@gava the predecessor to the PMC 26 was the OB1, there are a couple on eBay at around £1500 if you want to hear a 3 way PMC.
Yes I spied those…
 
Listened for over an hour, took my amp with me.

Short version: I liked them a LOT.

The room was much bigger than my living room, 6m high ceilings, room 8m wide x12m long. Fair bit of room treatment with carpeted floors. So quite a lot less reflective than my living room. I would say perhaps very slightly over-damped, but they have a lot of very high-end gear so I can understand why they have set it up that way.

Listening position maybe 4m from the speakers. So the ATCs needed a lot of power, they have a reputation of needing some juice, but in that big room and at a greater listening distance I reckon I was often using >160W to play at good demo volume. The C399 coped very well but it was very close to its limits. Even in a normal sized living room I would be very hesitant to pair these with any amp < 150W pc.

They are slightly bigger and better looking than I was expecting. Cherry finish was nice. Somewhat more inclined to choose the Black Ash, but rethinking now. I think they would look fine with my wooden floors.

Sound wise...

Dynamics are superb - really just astonishingly good.

Vocals/midrange clarity is absolutely fantastic. This is their special trick of course, and I'm very glad I experienced it. It's such a good trick I feel like it will be hard to forget these speakers now I have heard them.

Treble very nice - just like the C300s really. No sibilance at all. Plenty of detail but no pain.

Bass is very good, very tight and punchy, though they only go down to 48Hz what they give you is so good that I could definitely live without a sub and not feel too much of a lack for most music. Drums sound exactly like drums. They are so reasonably priced however that I if I get a pair I will definitely upgrade my subs to complement the bottom end.

Instead of playing my usual half of each demo track before moving to the next I played almost all of them straight through because I was enjoying the way they sounded so much. I don't think I have ever heard "Psycho Killer" sound so utterly compelling. When the track finished I wanted to start it again.

The only area where they do not compete with the C300s is in soundstage, but almost nothing I have heard in my last few months of auditioning can compete - only the KEF Reference 1 Metas are in the same league, and actually even a bit better. I think the cabinet/stand combo of the C300s is almost unique in how inert they are. So that makes me think that I might not love the SCM40s quite as much for classical, but the tracks I played sounded fine.

People say these speakers are a bit marmite, well I love them for sure.

Finally I'm not sure they meet the "audiophile" gold standard of "disappearing so that you could imagine the band were in the room with you". No they didn't feel like that. Instead they just say to that idea: "no bonehead - you're listening to a recording", but on probably the best speakers you've ever heard.

P.S. Later on listened to a pair of £9k Dynaudio Confidence 20i for comparison (Dynaudio has been on my audition list too) and much preferred the ATCs. The dealer says they have a love/hate relationship with the SCM40s because although they sell a lot of them they cannibalise sales up to the £10-£15k mark they are so good.

I think these have now gone to the top of my list for an upgrade. They are better than the C300s in most respects, and they don't cost a fortune either. Of course you have to have a very good amplifier, but the C399 seems to cope with them incredibly well. Great combo.
To further my original posting, I have augmented my ATC SCM40s with a pair of KEF KC62 active subs.
After experiments with the bass cut off and output, I have the cut off at 40Hz and volume a tad over 9.00 o’clock and the subs are invisible. They add that infrasound experience, bass you can feel. The KEFs are really compact in size and I marvel at how something so small can make such bass.
The ATC sub was just too big in size to fit comfortably in my system. I have also recently upgraded my Centre speaker to an ATC C1C, great choice, excellent clarity on dialogue and music.View attachment 1698579
 
To further my original posting, I have augmented my ATC SCM40s with a pair of KEF KC62 active subs.
After experiments with the bass cut off and output, I have the cut off at 40Hz and volume a tad over 9.00 o’clock and the subs are invisible. They add that infrasound experience, bass you can feel. The KEFs are really compact in size and I marvel at how something so small can make such bass.
The ATC sub was just too big in size to fit comfortably in my system. I have also recently upgraded my Centre speaker to an ATC C1C, great choice, excellent clarity on dialogue and music.View attachment 1698579
I have mine now on order, and also on order a pair of Arendal 1723 1S subs.

Not sure where to cross, but I expect I might start at 60Hz and see what happens.
 
I have mine now on order, and also on order a pair of Arendal 1723 1S subs.

Not sure where to cross, but I expect I might start at 60Hz and see what happens.
Be patient, my ATC C1C took time to arrive, but it was worth it.
 

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Can these Match the Kef R11,'s?..... I seen a YouTube post that said these sound better.
 
Probably best to try to listen to them both. They are both good speakers. I preferred the ATC, but...
 
I have mine now on order, and also on order a pair of Arendal 1723 1S subs.

Not sure where to cross, but I expect I might start at 60Hz and see what happens.
Just experiment with the bass cut off until the subs become invisible. As I said, mine are set at 40hz which for me and my room sounds just right.
 
Just experiment with the bass cut off until the subs become invisible. As I said, mine are set at 40hz which for me and my room sounds just right.

I will be using Dirac Live from the C399, the speaker specs are -6dB at 48Hz, so unless I get a LOT of room gain just at the right frequency 40Hz seems likely to be a bit too low.

Actually DL will probably integrate them seamlessly at anything between 50-80 crossover. I am currently running 70 which seems like it's low enough to be well clear of any directionality effects from the subs, but high enough to take full use of the sub amplification.

Anyway, the subs are now en-route, delivery hopefully by the weekend, and the speakers still on track for delivery this month. Getting a bit impatient. :)
 
Getting a bit impatient. :)
So am I and I still haven't finished writing my piece on my speakers with my amp as I spend so much time listening to music through them.
 
I will be using Dirac Live from the C399, the speaker specs are -6dB at 48Hz, so unless I get a LOT of room gain just at the right frequency 40Hz seems likely to be a bit too low.

Actually DL will probably integrate them seamlessly at anything between 50-80 crossover. I am currently running 70 which seems like it's low enough to be well clear of any directionality effects from the subs, but high enough to take full use of the sub amplification.

Anyway, the subs are now en-route, delivery hopefully by the weekend, and the speakers still on track for delivery this month. Getting a bit impatient. :)
I just adjusted mine by ear till I got what pleased me. The ATCs by themselves do have good low end, but the addition of the KEF subs just add those essential bottom octaves, especially with some organ music recordings.
 
Got the new speakers installed on Saturday. Super impressed with how nice they look in Black Ash with the grills on. I wasn't expecting them to look half so good.

Decided to run Dirac Live immediately to see how it's all looking, will re-run in 2-3 weeks after the speakers have "burned in". I personally think that 95% of the burn in effect happens in the brain of the listener getting used to the sound difference from their previous speakers. Dirac Live measurements are not subject to that effect so it will be interesting to see if there are any burn in effects that show up there.

I tend to get quite used to my old sound, so often am a bit disappointed immediately upon getting something new, but my immediate impression was that it was an upgrade, certainly the tightness and detail is a step above even though the FR is a bit more choppy.

Decided to stick with the 70Hz crossover for the DSP, though experimentation with DL off at different crossover frequencies 50-60-70 .. is ongoing too, and all sound fine.

There does seem to be a bit of a 2-3 KHz scoop in the FR, but with a full DL profile some sparkle is lost, so I'm just applying it to <200Hz at the moment.

I'm sure after a couple of months I'll have it all dialled in to my satisfaction, and so far I'm feeling quite happy and have a feeling I'll be listening to these speakers for a very long time. I have found out through a lot of demos that in order to find anything I like more than these I would have to spend a LOT more money than I want to.
 
Super impressed with how nice they look in Black Ash with the grills on. I wasn't expecting them to look half so good.

I think the same about my SCM19s in Black Ash. I was able to see all the standard colours before I bought mine and for me, the Black Ash ones looked the best with the grills on.

Btw, make sure you give them some time to run in. I know this is contentious and hard to prove with measurements, but mine definitely sounded more balanced in terms of frequency response after a few weeks.

Don't know if you've experimented with toe-in yet, but if not, it's definitely worth doing.
 
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It was also nice to find that the C399 has more than sufficient reserves to drive these very well.

I haven't really blasted them to see how loud I can make them go, but playing via the BluOS app I had to back off at around 85% with SPL well into the 90s.

That's partially the subs of course (which each have an 800W amplifier) but this setup now can play very loud if I want it to.

[Edit] Hmm, actually it's not surprising that they are fine and I haven't really noticed a difference required on the volume control.

C300: Nominal Impedance of 6Ω, min 3.7Ω, sensitivity of 84dB.
SCM40: Nominal 8Ω, min 5.8Ω, sensitivity 85dB.

Actually a slightly easier load - the C399 has a lot of power, but I suspect it prefers an 8Ω speaker.
 
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A few thoughts after 2 weeks:

Firstly I have managed to sort out some feet. The 40s come with some screw in spikes, but I have wooden floors so I didn't want to dig holes in them. At first I simply left the spikes off and put the speakers on the floor without spikes. I couldn't hear or notice any resonance from the floor, but I was worried about subtle effects and aesthetically I felt like feet were required. Trawling through the internet the only thing I could really find that was totally obvious were the IsoAcoustic feet, but they are rather expensive - kits range between £200-£400 per speaker! I'm sure they do their job, and they look nice, but no, not for me. Instead I ended up with these and some felt pads on the bottom:

Amazon product ASIN B097316FCL
Two sets cost £40 in total plus a fiver for the felt pads. Put the spikes on and I must say they look very handsome and any nagging doubt about resonance from the floor is gone.

1658553230834.png


Secondly I feel like they are actually breaking in! Despite my general skepticism about break in being mostly in the mind of the listener, they are sounding better to me, and they sounded great from the first minute. They have probably had something like 75 hours playing time over the last 2 weeks and they seem to be loosening up and this has a particular effect at lower volumes. Regardless of whether it's happening in my head or in the speakers it's most welcome as it's making them sound even better.

Thirdly and somewhat unexpectedly I find that I am enjoying them at lower volumes than my Concept 300s. Neither pair of speakers has any hint of distortion or fatigue problems at volumes at 95dB average SPL which is about as loud as I generally want to make things, and normally it's just one or two songs. The thing is that my one "complaint" about the C300s was that they didn't generally sound as good at 65dB, except very late at night. To my delight however this certainly doesn't seem to be the case with the 40s - as they break in they seem to be sounding better and better at lower volumes and somewhat ironically I am playing my new system less loud even though it can play much louder.

This has been a bit odd, because the 40s have a reputation as a hard-to-drive speaker, and the C300s do not, so I was expecting to really make use of the power of the C399 with the 40s, and it's transpired that I'm using less power to drive them than my previous speakers.

Fourthly when it comes to DSP I'm finding I prefer using Dirac Live for bass management only. This is slightly weird and counter-intuitive. The C300s had an uncorrected in room response that was really quite surprisingly good, and applying a DL curve to get it exactly to target (+/- 0.5dB from 30-20,000 Hz) gave a very pleasing sound. With the 40s the uncorrected response is a bit less smooth, and although it sounds very good with correction applied it sounds even better with correction only applied below 200Hz, just slightly more vibrant. The mids have a very mild scoop when uncorrected and I suppose this goes hand-in-hand with a better low-volume presentation, it also aligns more with a headphone Harman tuning. At any rate it's easy to have multiple profiles which I can tweak to taste, but for now bass-only seems to be the thing. I am going to allocate a "silly sub-bass" tuning to one of the slots because I have these ridiculously powerful subwoofers now and generally they just blend so seamlessly you can't actually hear they are doing a great deal, but I am going to create a profile which boosts 20-80 Hz by an extra 6-10 dB just for giggles.

I have spent so much time over the last 3-5 years researching, upgrading, listening, etc. that I now feel like my hobby has disappeared. I have a system which far exceeds what I ever imagined owning and short of winning the lottery I can't imagine how I could improve it. On the journey I listened to systems costing >£25k which I wouldn't even be slightly tempted to swap for this one. The overall system sounds absolutely fantastic. Of course this wouldn't be the best system for everyone, but I somehow muddled my way into something I absolutely love. Perfect for me.

This achievement is in no small part thanks to the excellent and friendly advice and comments from this forum, so a big thanks to all. :)
 
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The 40s come with some screw in spikes, but I have wooden floors so I didn't want to dig holes in them.
I'm just quicly answering to this, I will read what else you wrote later.
To start off with I recommend just putting coins under tyhe spike, if you have carpetted wooden floors. If directly onto wooden floor then MDF, isolating floor 'panels', or just rugs. You can blutac the coins in place on mdf or floor panel covering (by floor panel I mean lino type mock wooden floor stuff).
It's a cheap often easy way to see what more suffisticated solutions might bring as these do tend to be expensive for what they are. If greater insulation is required blutac and extra layers of coins or isulating flooring mats can help.
Anyway some ideas. When looking for a professional solution think about the surface your speakers are going onto. Often anti slipping feet are required on varnished floors for example, carpet on the other hand offers great protection and anti slip properties. (The slipping is due to the force created by the bass drivers (back and forth).

Just read the rest of your post and counter spikes with felt pads are an excellent solution on wooden floors like yours.

I hope others find my DIY methods useful.
 
They. Do look the part, I'm really pleased that they have worked out for you.
I too spied those IsoAcoustic ball things & like you baulked at the price. £400 would have been what it would have cost for both speakers! We are talking very, very minor gains here- if any.
Added to that I really think they would have harmed the aesthetics of my Spendor A7s as they are very narrow.
 
I have a system which far exceeds what I ever imagined owning and short of winning the lottery I can't imagine how I could improve it.
Ha, ha like me (except I do need a new CD player and perhaps a nice DAC) now we can sit back and listen without any worries, I love it. 😍
 
A few thoughts after 2 weeks:

Firstly I have managed to sort out some feet. The 40s come with some screw in spikes, but I have wooden floors so I didn't want to dig holes in them. At first I simply left the spikes off and put the speakers on the floor without spikes. I couldn't hear or notice any resonance from the floor, but I was worried about subtle effects and aesthetically I felt like feet were required. Trawling through the internet the only thing I could really find that was totally obvious were the IsoAcoustic feet, but they are rather expensive - kits range between £200-£400 per speaker! I'm sure they do their job, and they look nice, but no, not for me. Instead I ended up with these and some felt pads on the bottom:

Amazon product ASIN B097316FCL
Two sets cost £40 in total plus a fiver for the felt pads. Put the spikes on and I must say they look very handsome and any nagging doubt about resonance from the floor is gone.

View attachment 1727896

Secondly I feel like they are actually breaking in! Despite my general skepticism about break in being mostly in the mind of the listener, they are sounding better to me, and they sounded great from the first minute. They have probably had something like 75 hours playing time over the last 2 weeks and they seem to be loosening up and this has a particular effect at lower volumes. Regardless of whether it's happening in my head or in the speakers it's most welcome as it's making them sound even better.

Thirdly and somewhat unexpectedly I find that I am enjoying them at lower volumes than my Concept 300s. Neither pair of speakers has any hint of distortion or fatigue problems at volumes at 95dB average SPL which is about as loud as I generally want to make things, and normally it's just one or two songs. The thing is that my one "complaint" about the C300s was that they didn't generally sound as good at 65dB, except very late at night. To my delight however this certainly doesn't seem to be the case with the 40s - as they break in they seem to be sounding better and better at lower volumes and somewhat ironically I am playing my new system less loud even though it can play much louder.

This has been a bit odd, because the 40s have a reputation as a hard-to-drive speaker, and the C300s do not, so I was expecting to really make use of the power of the C399 with the 40s, and it's transpired that I'm using less power to drive them than my previous speakers.

Fourthly when it comes to DSP I'm finding I prefer using Dirac Live for bass management only. This is slightly weird and counter-intuitive. The C300s had an uncorrected in room response that was really quite surprisingly good, and applying a DL curve to get it exactly to target (+/- 0.5dB from 30-20,000 Hz) gave a very pleasing sound. With the 40s the uncorrected response is a bit less smooth, and although it sounds very good with correction applied it sounds even better with correction only applied below 200Hz, just slightly more vibrant. The mids have a very mild scoop when uncorrected and I suppose this goes hand-in-hand with a better low-volume presentation, it also aligns more with a headphone Harman tuning. At any rate it's easy to have multiple profiles which I can tweak to taste, but for now bass-only seems to be the thing. I am going to allocate a "silly sub-bass" tuning to one of the slots because I have these ridiculously powerful subwoofers now and generally they just blend so seamlessly you can't actually hear they are doing a great deal, but I am going to create a profile which boosts 20-80 Hz by an extra 6-10 dB just for giggles.

I have spent so much time over the last 3-5 years researching, upgrading, listening, etc. that I now feel like my hobby has disappeared. I have a system which far exceeds what I ever imagined owning and short of winning the lottery I can't imagine how I could improve it. On the journey I listened to systems costing >£25k which I wouldn't even be slightly tempted to swap for this one. The overall system sounds absolutely fantastic. Of course this wouldn't be the best system for everyone, but I somehow muddled my way into something I absolutely love. Perfect for me.

This achievement is in no small part thanks to the excellent and friendly advice and comments from this forum, so a big thanks to all. :)


88D11214-CF8C-4B23-9B9D-F5E1C2C44B26.jpeg
 
@gava

These may be a bit on the pricey side, but they’re a captive spike and shoe which makes it a lot easier to move your speakers, should you even need to.

 
@gava

These may be a bit on the pricey side, but they’re a captive spike and shoe which makes it a lot easier to move your speakers, should you even need to.

I managed to get these in a deal somewhere, I can't remember where now, for something like £50 for 8.

I can't vouch for their claimed sonic improvements, but in practical terms they're so much better than spikes + shoes to move around and position.

They are expensive at £120 for 8, but that's still far cheaper than the stupid prices for the IsoAcoustics equivalent.
 
Thanks, I expect I'll give them a try in a month or two,
 
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