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As much as I love Denon kit....

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by sunlink, Mar 9, 2005.

  1. sunlink

    sunlink
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    I will seriously think about purchasing any future kit, due to the farce over activiation of the denon link to pass DVD Audio on the AVC 1SE amp and the lack of firmware support for the DVD A-11.
    I have both pieces of kit but probably realising something like 60% of its functionality.

    Not a happy bunny

    Steve :mad: :mad: :mad:
     
  2. p.booth

    p.booth
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    Got to agree!! :mad: :mad:
     
  3. Edgeyboy

    Edgeyboy
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    I agree too. I have a really good offer on the table from my dealer for an AVCA1VX but I am loathed to do it in case of any issues and the complete lack of belief that Denon will fix any bugs or problems.
     
  4. Jules

    Jules
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    I also strongly agree.
    When I got my A1SE upgraded and bought a DVD-A1 (both £2500 each) I had to wait 18 months to make use of the Denon Link before they got round to upgrading the upgrade. :mad:

    I sense Denon may well be paying for this reputation now.
    In addition, they recently released a ludicrously overpriced DVD player with HDD-DVD and Blu-ray just around the corner :suicide: and probably priced themselves out of the flagship AV market with their £4000 monster.

    Denon clearly have some great designers and engineers, but their marketing, testing and customer service divisions are losing the plot in my opinion.
     
  5. sunlink

    sunlink
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    Does somebody have a contact within Denon? Surely threads like this should start to ring alarm bells for sales?

    Steve :mad:
     
  6. Jase

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    Roger Batchelor is the head honcho at Denon UK. Try him.
     
  7. sunlink

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    Cheers Jase,

    Steve :thumbsup:
     
  8. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    As a now non Denon owner, it is these reasons that I am not a current Denon owner, never entirely happy with the niggles (which all kit has) but more the way Denon deals with them. In this case indications of future updates that never materialise or need major hardware mods.
     
  9. sunlink

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    Just e-mailed this to Denon. It would be beneficial for other members to provide feedback, so Denon get a feel for the issues.

    Steve :thumbsup:

    FAO Roger Bachelor - Disgruntled Denon owners on AV Forums

    Please note from the sentiments that are being expressed in an AV Forums thread (see link below), that there is reticence from Denon component owners to invest in any future products due to the issues outlined.
    I have purchased many Denon components myself, currently I own the DVD A-11, an AVCSR1 and a S10 tuner. However, I feel that the support is not available to get the most out of my equipment and therefore I am reluctant to invest in any future technologies. It appears my concerns are shared by other Denon consumers.

    Your thoughts on this matter would be greatly appreciated.

    Steve

    http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1522086#post1522086
     
  10. Jase

    Jase
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    Whilst the Denon Link saga could have been handled a bit better my only complaints are no PLIIx upgrade for the already upgraded A1SE. I can't see why this isn't technically possible. Other manufacturers can manage it with their units that have less potent processing. The A1SR get's it and both these models have effectively the same digital board.

    The other complaint concerns the new DVD A1XV, why no custom output resolutions? Seriously missed the boat by not including that option. Got excellent scaling and you're stuck with a limited choice of outputs.
     
  11. p.booth

    p.booth
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    FAO Roger Bachelor - Disgruntled Denon owners on AV Forums

    Sir!,
    Please note from the sentiments that are being expressed in an AV Forums thread , that there is reticence from Denon component owners to invest in any future products due to the issues outlined.
    I feel that the support is not available to get the most out of my equipment and therefore I am reluctant to invest in any future technologies. It appears my concerns are shared by other Denon consumers. I own the DVDa11 and the A1sr and am stillwaiting for upgrades from Denon to enjoy the full functions of the equipment as described when I bought it. Any thoughts I have of upgrading to the new Amp +dvd player are clouded by the possibility of being left in the same situation awaitng upgrades for the new equipment. Yout thoughts are eagerly awaited please.

    We`ll see if we get replies. Retep (apologies to anyone who`s text I leached ,I couldn`t say it any better so used it .Hope you don`t mind.)
     
  12. MPK

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    I fully agree with all the above. After many years of Arcam, I purchased my first ever Denon kit about a month ago and started to regret it shortly afterwards. The 3910 did not work with the A1XV via HDMI due to old firmware in the 3910. Despite me and my dealer constantly harrassing Denon about it for a month now, they couldn't be bothered to send me a new firmware. I finally managed to download one from this forum and install it myself. Now things are working fine (knock on wood), but I don't bear thinking what will happen if something ever goes wrong or I ever need an upgrade...

    Great technology, superb engineering, but poor customer service
     
  13. sunlink

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    That's the kind of feedback we need.

    Cheers

    Steve :clap:
     
  14. p.booth

    p.booth
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    Just receioved this from Denon::

    Dear Mr Booth,

    Thank you for your e-mail which has been forwarded to the relevant Department Managers within the Denon UK Consumer Division.



    Please note that Roger Batchelor is away from the office until Monday 14th March so will be unable to respond until early next week. Mr Batchelor is the Marketing and Training Officer for Denon Consumer products and therefore deals with Marketing, Press, Shows and Dealer Training matters. If you have a specific product related enquiry this may be better answered by our Product Support staff or, if you have query relating to a Service matter, by our Customer Services Manager.



    Please rest assured that we will always do our best to resolve any issues you may have with your Denon components. Please also note that the network of Denon Authorised THX Dealers in the UK, are appointed to support customers with any queries they may have about the THX-level units they have purchased. Just like our main dealer network, these specialist dealers have the full support of our Sales, Product, Training, Technical and Administration staff.



    We do appreciate the support of owners such as yourself who have chosen to buy Denon products. We apologise for any delay you have experienced in obtaining the latest upgrade for your AVC-A1SR unit. We have had many projects and events underway during recent months and this has resulted in some delays due to internal resources and some logistical re-organisation throughout Denon in Europe.



    The previous major upgrade to the earlier AVC-A1SE model was a major undertaking World-wide and overall was a very successful program. No other company of a similar size has so far attempted such a program. For this, the UK was unique in arranging for flight cases for transportation to and from the Authorised Denon THX dealer. We hope to be able to implement a similar arrangement for the AVC-A1SR model as soon as we are in a position to turn units around via our Service Dept in a reasonable time. Had we attempted this during the busy Christmas/New Year period of 2004, there would have been some considerable delays involved as this would be additional work to the normal day-to-day operations of our Service Dept. We will ensure that your details are logged so that we can contact you ASAP to arrange for the upgrade via your dealer.



    As regards the DVD-A11, there should be no problem in obtaining the straight-forward upgrade for original Denon Link up the Second Edition (for DVD-A) if required. Your unit can be sent in via your dealer at any time. For further details of future Denon Link upgrades, see the current issue of Hi-Fi Choice magazine. More details will be made available as soon as possible.



    Once again, thank you for buying Denon products and our apologies for the delay.



    Best regards,

    Product Support

    Consumer Division

    DENON UK Ltd
     
  15. Jules

    Jules
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    Oh dear, that doesn't address any of the real issues and demonstrates exactly why Denon need to re-think their approach to customer service.
    Harping on about how great you think you are when someone is unhappy, simply adds fuel to the fire.

    Wouldn't it be nice if they said what they were going to do about it and then did it! A genuine apology dis-robed of self gratifying marketing trollop would also be welcome.
    May be there's a job for me at Denon!
     
  16. p.booth

    p.booth
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    Typical Denon verbal diahorrea !! It just annoys me so much.
    It`s certainly the last time I buy Denon.
    :thumbsdow :thumbsdow :thumbsdow

    Rant Over!!!!
     
  17. sunlink

    sunlink
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    Similar message received by myself from Denon UK. Looks like an automated response to me.

    Dear Mr xxxxxx,

    Thank you for your e-mail which has been forwarded to the relevant Department Managers within the Denon UK Consumer Division.



    Please note that Roger Batchelor is away from the office until Monday 14th March so will be unable to respond until early next week. Mr Batchelor is the Marketing and Training Officer for Denon Consumer products and therefore deals with Marketing, Press, Shows and Dealer Training matters. If you have a specific product related enquiry this may be better answered by our Product Support staff or, if you have query relating to a Service matter, by our Customer Services Manager.



    Please rest assured that we will always do our best to resolve any issues you may have with your Denon components. Please also note that the network of Denon Authorised THX Dealers in the UK, are appointed to support customers with any queries they may have about the THX-level units they have purchased. Just like our main dealer network, these specialist dealers have the full support of our Sales, Product, Training, Technical and Administration staff.



    We do appreciate the support of owners such as yourself who have chosen to buy Denon products. Please let us know by return if we can help with any specific enquiries you have about your units.



    Best regards,

    Product Support

    Consumer Division

    DENON UK Ltd
     
  18. Jase

    Jase
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    In Denon's defence. When my A1SE was sent back to the dealer in the UK for it's upgrade they did sort it out well. Unfortunately the dealer had it sat in his shop for five weeks giving me various excuses as to why it hadn't been collected. Once I contacted Denon directly and found out they had had no contact from the dealer whatsover they got on the case and had it picked up within 48 hours. It was upgraded, tested and then sent back about 7-10 days later. Unfortunately it sat at the dealers for another week before they sent it back to me. Annoying to say the least and the last time that I dealt with that dealer, but Denon did come to the rescue on that occasion.
     
  19. Spligsey

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    Good old Jase :D

    Adz
     
  20. awhb

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  21. p.booth

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    Just received this ,from Denon

    [Note from admin - since the contents of the letter sent to you were confidential, I don't think it's appropriate to reproduce them on the AV Forums. I have therefore deleted them. Please don't clutter the forums up with the entire contents of emails including the virus checking guff.]




    -----Original Message-----

    From: peter booth [mailto:peter.booth1@ntlworld.com]

    Sent: 10 March 2005 12:08

    To: info@denon.co.uk

    Subject: FAO Roger Bachelor - Disgruntled Denon owners on AV Forums



    Sir!,

    Please note from the sentiments that are being expressed in an AV Forums thread (see link below), that there is reticence from Denon component owners to invest in any future products due to the issues outlined.

    I feel that the support is not available to get the most out of my equipment and therefore I am reluctant to invest in any future technologies. It appears my concerns are shared by other Denon consumers. I own the DVDa11 and the A1sr and am stillwaiting for upgrades from Denon to enjoy the full functions of the equipment as described when I bought it. Any thoughts I have of upgrading to the new Amp +dvd player are clouded by the possibility of being left in the same situation awaitng upgrades for the new equipment. Yout thoughts are eagerly awaited please.
     
  22. sunlink

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    Received a very welcome call from Roger of Denon UK yesterday. He reiterated most of what was explained to Peter in the previous post and asked me to send him details of my kit in order to assess which of the units required an upgrade, which I will do this morning.
    I must say that Roger's attitude was a breath of fresh air and as gone a long way to restoring my faith in the Denon brand. I did suggest however, that Denon may want to consider publishing a "road map" for future upgrades and compatibility issues for their high end components. The purpose being, to give us the information to make an informed decision on future upgrades to currently owned kit or take the plunge and purchase new components from the company.
    My A-11 is booked in with Sound & Vision this week for the MR firmware upgrade and hopefully the Denon link issue can be quickly resolved on my AVCSR1, as it appears it is not SE compliant.
    I will keep you informed of progress. Needless to say, I feel a lot better about Denon than I did last week.




    Steve :clap: :clap: :clap:
     
  23. Jase

    Jase
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    :oops: Apologies on my part for thinking Roger was the Head Honcho! LOL. Nice reply though. :smashin:
     
  24. Jules

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    Roger seems a nice bloke. I spoke to him a couple of years ago and got a similarly thorough and pleasant reply.
    Unfortunately however, the service department didn't live up to his promises and I was left waiting for many months more feeling very, very let down.

    I actually feel a little sorry for Roger as he's just one guy at Denon that everyone wants to speak to. It can't be a good thing for Denon when there's one guy trying to protect their reputation.

    Anyway, the same reasons for delays were used 2 years ago and clearly nothing has improved. That in itself speaks volumes.

    I'll be delighted if Denon can turn things around as their kit is great, but I need more evidence than a single email to persuade me that it is safe to buy another Denon product at this time.
     
  25. Kefmad Rich

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    I,ve just noticed this thread and even though it,s early days I,m hopefull that I,ll get my A1SR updated to "a" spec. :lease:

    Denon Link 3 , :rolleyes: Don,t think I,ll ever see it with my set up.
     
  26. Stuart Wright

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    There is an important issue here with regard to support.
    Traditionally (and by that I mean prior to the internet), if anyone had a problem with any AV kit, they went back to the dealer. I.e. the person who sold them the kit. This is where we should all go for support. It's the dealer's responsibility.
    However, because
    1) more people buy mail order and thereby do not establish a relationship with the dealer - who may not be able to offer technical support to a particularly technical level and
    2) because more people use the internet to quickly find the manufacturer and
    3) because more people use websites like the AV Forums to share experiences and
    4) because people using the internet are becoming more and more impatient

    companies like Denon UK who are the UK distributors of a big brand manufactured on a different continent are finding themselves inundated with queries which they previously didn't have to handle.
    I remember when I created the first REL website that they asked me to replace the contact email address with a FAQ after just a few weeks because poor old Eric was spending all day answering query emails which
    1) should have been directed to the retailers and
    2) were keeping him from doing his job of addressing and developing the technical aspect of the subs.

    Knowing some of the guys at Denon personally to be very knowledgeable and passionately enthusiastic people (as are the UK representatives of all the major brands I've met), can I suggest you temper your frustration a little and remember that technical developments and the occasional bug are created, solved and authorised by people on a different continent?
    Roger et al are not allowed to participate in public forums like these - much as they'd probably love to - as their comments would be made as representatives of a global brand.
    I personally love Denon because they have great kit (see the official forums home cinema) and they also support the AV Forums. We would like - and should have - more manufacturers lending us their support and in this respect Denon are ahead of the field. Many of the other manufacturers need to wake up to the fact that the AV Forums is THE BEST way to reach their enthusiastic customers.
    :smashin: Denon :smashin:
     
  27. p.booth

    p.booth
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  28. MPK

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    I agree with p.booth that the email he posted (ok, there was some clutter in there...:)) was not only good for Denon's reputation (after a whole lot of nasty comments in this thread) but it also "pacified" some of the disgruntled Denon customers. Needless to say, actions speak louder than words and we all look forward to hearing his progress with Denon Customer Service.

    As opposed to the usual standard replies, this email had a personal element and demonstrated that there are people within Denon who care about their customers, and I therefore think it should not have been removed from this thread.

    :smashin:
     
  29. Stuart Wright

    Stuart Wright
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    The email was confidential and therefore I think disrespectful to reprint it.
    It would be appropriate to convey the message and your impression of the email.
    That, hopefully, will get the point across.
     
  30. sunlink

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    Since I posted the intial thread, I have been contacted on a regular basis by Roger Batchelor and his team at Denon. As a result, I now have a fully functional multi-region A11 (MOD UPGARDE DONE BY DEALER) and some very useful information about the upgrade to the AVC-A1SR.
    I can only express my gratitude for the fantastic customer support afforded to me by Denon, whilst I tuck into a very large portion of humble pie.

    Steve :clap:
     

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