ARTICLE: What is Samsung EzCal?

This is a great concept, and makes a lot of sense, hopefully other manufacturers would follow suit. I suspect compatible phones would be any that can shoot in raw mode (therefore no manipulation of the RGB readings). It could also be a samsung exclusive for a while (or maybe free for Samsung phones but paid for everyone else).
 

zubeir

Well-known Member
Android OS TVs could have something like this, app on the TV and mobile. Even if it costs a bit, would be very useful. I'm surprised, nobody has tapped into something similar before.
Simples.
 
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stblob

Well-known Member
Impressive, in home calibration done by the novice with good results. Hopefully a universal standard form across different brands?
 

ggwoodland

Well-known Member
Sounds interesting - but I would have thought it would be a Samsung exclusive. Depending on how much 'buzz' this creates you could see the other manufacturers following suit and developing a bespoke app for their own TVs- especially LG who have quite a lot of competition with Samsung - George
 

ArtByIanW

Standard Member
I presume that the Samsung phone talks to the Samsung TV and makes the adjustments automatically (if I have understood the article correctly)?
I am not planning to buy a Samsung phone or TV but would be interested in app that could fine tune my 3 year old Pansonic OLED TV but the app would need to tell me what settings to manually adjust.
I can’t see Panasonic adding an app like this to an ‘old’ TV when we haven’t even got Disney+, etc. That’s another thread!
 

La Finta Nonna

Active Member
Hang on Steve you are telling us about a telly manufacturer that is trying to take the food off your table with a half arsed calibration app outrageous just say the word and we on this forum will man and woman the barricades
 

CaptainJames

Well-known Member
Another nail in the coffin for pro calibrators, bearing in mind how accurate modern TVs already are out of the box. I can't see this app encouraging anyone to employ a pro calibrator after using such an app - the improvement window is going to be miniscule, probably not even visible. Especially if they only use the Calman auto function anyway.......
 

Tyler Durden

Distinguished Member
Looks great. How do I get it?
 

ozzzy189

Distinguished Member
You might need this for Samsung tellies more than the oled crowd, what with their wacky curves and odd black levels. Sticking an LG in filmmaker mode and turning off some of the guff etc is pretty much all the average av guy is going to do and be pretty happy with the results.
The days of paying 200-300 quid for the now miniscule improvements are over imo.
 

Nick74

Distinguished Member
How can a phone camera function as a substitute for a profiled colorimeter? Surely the variables and tolerances would be too broad for this to be reliable.

It'd be interesting to know how close this method gets when properly checked post-calibration. Don't get me wrong, I'd love a quick, cheap calibration solution, if we could rely on the results.
 

Tingo

Active Member
How can a phone camera function as a substitute for a profiled colorimeter? Surely the variables and tolerances would be too broad for this to be reliable.

It'd be interesting to know how close this method gets when properly checked post-calibration. Don't get me wrong, I'd love a quick, cheap calibration solution, if we could rely on the results.
I think this would work for the reasons you have mentioned. I could be wrong but aren't camera tolerances less likely to be different from same camera to camera. I've never heard of a smartphone camera lottery. The hard part has been done, the camera rgb to tv xyY algorithm and from the preview its only 0.5 de out. It's how they will get the patterns onto the tv and how the controls are adjusted either by app or manually. Then there's the biggie will it be added to current and older tv models by firmware and what series of phones will get it and pricing.
 

CaptainJames

Well-known Member
I think this would work for the reasons you have mentioned. I could be wrong but aren't camera tolerances less likely to be different from same camera to camera. I've never heard of a smartphone camera lottery. The hard part has been done, the camera rgb to tv xyY algorithm and from the preview its only 0.5 de out. It's how they will get the patterns onto the tv and how the controls are adjusted either by app or manually. Then there's the biggie will it be added to current and older tv models by firmware and what series of phones will get it and pricing.
Modern camera phones are actually surprisingly high quality, mine has Leica components so it's hardly a Kodak Instamatic ( warning - Millennials may need to Google).
 

Stridsvognen

Well-known Member
How can a phone camera function as a substitute for a profiled colorimeter? Surely the variables and tolerances would be too broad for this to be reliable.

It'd be interesting to know how close this method gets when properly checked post-calibration. Don't get me wrong, I'd love a quick, cheap calibration solution, if we could rely on the results.
Counting how many different phone models there is, all using different cameras, i think it will be a bit of a mess, when we calibrate we normally profile to a reference spectro, and a good one of those need to be recalibrated yearly, on top of that we have very light sensitive colorimeters, so that we can actually measure the black level, as needed to calculate the right gamma curve.
So even as a hobby calibrator you easy spend 10000 £ on calibration tools.

Would be interesting if someone calibrate a samsung tv with 3 different phones running the calibration app, and report back, ill guess we might see some messed up calibrations, however i think this is just a tool for those who dont really understand calibration, and like to think they got something calibrated, time will tell.
 

CaptainJames

Well-known Member
Counting how many different phone models there is, all using different cameras, i think it will be a bit of a mess, when we calibrate we normally profile to a reference spectro, and a good one of those need to be recalibrated yearly, on top of that we have very light sensitive colorimeters, so that we can actually measure the black level, as needed to calculate the right gamma curve.
So even as a hobby calibrator you easy spend 10000 £ on calibration tools.

Would be interesting if someone calibrate a samsung tv with 3 different phones running the calibration app, and report back, ill guess we might see some messed up calibrations, however i think this is just a tool for those who dont really understand calibration, and like to think they got something calibrated, time will tell.
Pro calibrators are never going to welcome something like this, but the writing is on the wall .
 

Stridsvognen

Well-known Member
Pro calibrators are never going to welcome something like this, but the writing is on the wall .
Its not really important who like what, its more a question if it actually works properly, i doubt it. A pro calibration dont always equal the best or good calibration, everybody can get a ISF or THX calibration certificate and buy the tools, not everybody have the flair for it.

I just dont think they can controle color temperature on 2000 different smartphone models. i doubt that 2 new smartphones made the same day have camera sensors that will see it the same way.

What calibration tools do you use for your setup?
 

Richard8500

Active Member
I don't think this was ever intended to replace a pro calibration but as a concept it is brilliant, to get a reasonable(?!) calibration out of something you already own. It will bring the benefits of calibration to the masses. If/when it grows the app could, I am sure be fairly easily customised to your phone with something like a set of parameters to enter into the algorithm depending on lens, sensor type etc. I'll never buy a Samsung unless they start using Dolby Vision so hopefully other companies will jump on board and offer something similar, first Sony please on that 83" Oled I have an eye on and yes I know if I can spend £7k on a TV I should really get it calibrated professionally, but I'm from Yorkshire and if I can do it myself then why pay somebody.

Camera phones can take remarkably good pictures these days and in this case you are not fiddling with the AI, red eye etc, you just want the raw signal to convert. And if you don't like the results you can fiddle and change things and it won't have cost you anything.

Of all the nonsense smart phone apps I have ever seen, this one could be genuinely useful.
 

Stridsvognen

Well-known Member
It could also mess up a tv set, normally these tools works best if you have something to controle measure with, as you wont know if you had a error reading that messed up 1 point, or more, i seen that on lot of autocal, and users with no calibration know how often dont wonder and check, they are naive enough to just trust the app and phone, no questions asked, and think they now have something calibrated, and it might be worse than before.
 

CaptainJames

Well-known Member
It could also mess up a tv set, normally these tools works best if you have something to controle measure with, as you wont know if you had a error reading that messed up 1 point, or more, i seen that on lot of autocal, and users with no calibration know how often dont wonder and check, they are naive enough to just trust the app and phone, no questions asked, and think they now have something calibrated, and it might be worse than before.
Well if it doesn't look worse than before, it's hardly a problem.
 

CaptainJames

Well-known Member
Its not really important who like what, its more a question if it actually works properly, i doubt it. A pro calibration dont always equal the best or good calibration, everybody can get a ISF or THX calibration certificate and buy the tools, not everybody have the flair for it.

I just dont think they can controle color temperature on 2000 different smartphone models. i doubt that 2 new smartphones made the same day have camera sensors that will see it the same way.

What calibration tools do you use for your setup?
I don't use any. I am satisfied that the OOB accuracy plus a few tweaks to the white balance gets me at least 95% of the way there. I don't feel the need to shell out 300 quid for a miniscule visual improvement, but that's me, others feel differently.
 

Nick74

Distinguished Member
I don't use any. I am satisfied that the OOB accuracy plus a few tweaks to the white balance gets me at least 95% of the way there. I don't feel the need to shell out 300 quid for a miniscule visual improvement, but that's me, others feel differently.

Out of interest, have you ever had your television professionally calibrated? White balance tweaks by eye won't (indeed can't) get you 95 percent of the way there.

After calibrating by eye you may end up with a picture you're happy with. In which case, great. You're pleased with the outcome, which is all that matters. That doesn't mean you're watching an image the aligns with broadcasting and mastering standards. In fact you won't be.

I was sceptical about calibration before I had this done, after which I concluded that calibration is not only desirable, but essential if you're to get the best from an expensive television.

To drag this back to discussion of Samsung auto-calibration by phone, I agree with @Stridsvognen.

Given the range of phone cameras available (and the reality that these won't have been profiled), users would very likely be substituting one inaccurate outcome for another. They'd be skewing the image toward phone camera inaccuracies, leaving them no better off. The outcomes might even be worse.

With that said, I think more effective DIY calibration solutions will become the norm. Panasonic televisions already generate calibration test patterns, while affordable colorimiters such as the i1 Display 3 (or pro-plus) are getting closer in terms of performance to meters that cost substantially more. I'd imagine we'll ultimately reach a point where you can buy such a colorimeter, plug it directly into your TV and let inbuilt software run.
 

Trollslayer

Distinguished Member
I would have to buy a better phone (I have a Nokia One) to be sure of getting good results.
Could be worth it.
 

CaptainJames

Well-known Member
Out of interest, have you ever had your television professionally calibrated? White balance tweaks by eye won't (indeed can't) get you 95 percent of the way there.

After calibrating by eye you may end up with a picture you're happy with. In which case, great. You're pleased with the outcome, which is all that matters. That doesn't mean you're watching an image the aligns with broadcasting and mastering standards. In fact you won't be.

I was sceptical about calibration before I had this done, after which I concluded that calibration is not only desirable, but essential if you're to get the best from an expensive television.

To drag this back to discussion of Samsung auto-calibration by phone, I agree with @Stridsvognen.

Given the range of phone cameras available (and the reality that these won't have been profiled), users would very likely be substituting one inaccurate outcome for another. They'd be skewing the image toward phone camera inaccuracies, leaving them no better off. The outcomes might even be worse.

With that said, I think more effective DIY calibration solutions will become the norm. Panasonic televisions already generate calibration test patterns, while affordable colorimiters such as the i1 Display 3 (or pro-plus) are getting closer in terms of performance to meters that cost substantially more. I'd imagine we'll ultimately reach a point where you can buy such a colorimeter, plug it directly into your TV and let inbuilt software run.
Yes, I have had two previous plasma TVs calibrated including a Panny ZT. The improvements were subtle, whether they were worth the money was subjective.

With my OLED however, with delta errors below the visible, a few simple tweaks were more than enough . I know what an accurate picture looks like , having owned two calibrated plasmas, and I would be more than happy to put up my panel against a calibrated one and challenge 10 people off the street to spot the difference. I have always been clear by that way that I am sure a pro calibrator could produce some improved charts, but 300 quids worth? Nah, not for me.

I do agree that more calibration automation is inevitable, even if not by camera phone - all this "secret sauce" cobblers propagated by some pro calibrators is just that -cobblers.
 

Nick74

Distinguished Member
Yes, I have had two previous plasma TVs calibrated including a Panny ZT. The improvements were subtle, whether they were worth the money was subjective.

With my OLED however, with delta errors below the visible, a few simple tweaks were more than enough . I know what an accurate picture looks like , having owned two calibrated plasmas, and I would be more than happy to put up my panel against a calibrated one and challenge 10 people off the street to spot the difference. I have always been clear by that way that I am sure a pro calibrator could produce some improved charts, but 300 quids worth? Nah, not for me.

I do agree that more calibration automation is inevitable, even if not by camera phone - all this "secret sauce" cobblers propagated by some pro calibrators is just that -cobblers.

My new Sony A8 looks quite a way off having come from a calibrated image. I can definitely tell the difference.

Maybe image accuracy has improved out of the box with the introduction of Filmmaker mode, though I regard this primarily as branding.

Perhaps our point of compromise (or consensus) is to acknowledge that, subjectively, I place greater value on the benefits of calibration that yourself. The world can definitely accommodate both of our perspectives. :)
 

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