ARTICLE: What is Audyssey Room Correction?

Thanks, I found the issue. Indeed I have AVR-X6200W. Had to select 11.1, and 2 channels through a different receiver.
Finally the sound is a lot better. Audyssey DSX still can not really convince me, as the best sound. Dolby Atmos still sounds best with "dolby atmos" selected.
Is there any formula for the height setting?

What do you mean by any formula for the height settings?

Levels should be set correctly by the Denon setup programme. Gibbsy recommends settings the crossover higher than the other main speakers - you can experiment.

DTS-X can sound just as immersive as Dolby Atmos, but it's far less common - there's only relatively few Blu-ray / UHD Blu-ray discs available that have a DTS-X encoded soundtrack, and currently there's no DTS streaming content (this may change with Disney+).

Your Denon AVR should automatically detect and switch to DTS-X mode when appropriate.

For discs that are traditionally encoded (without an immersive Dolby Atmos or DTS-X soundtrack) you have a choice about which up-mixer to use. You can choose between "Dolby Surround" or "DTS Neural:X" mode. I leave my Denon in its default configuration which uses "Dolby Surround" for Dolby encoded material and Neural X for DTS encoded material.
The debate about which is better, rages on...


Not all discs encoded with DTS-X in the US, are encoded with DTS-X when they get a UK / European pressing.

This is the link to the US site:



Regards,
James.
 
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Formerlee

Novice Member
What do you mean by any formula for the height settings?

Levels should be set correctly by the Denon setup programme. Gibbsy recommends settings the crossover higher than the other main speakers - you can experiment.

DTS-X can sound just as immersive as Dolby Atmos, but it's far less common - there's only relatively few Blu-ray / UHD Blu-ray discs available that have a DTS-X encoded soundtrack, and currently there's no DTS streaming content (this may change with Disney+).

Your Denon AVR should automatically detect and switch to DTS-X mode when appropriate.

For discs that are traditionally encoded (without an immersive Dolby Atmos or DTS-X soundtrack) you have a choice about which up-mixer to use. You can choose between "Dolby Surround" or "DTS Neural:X" mode. I leave my Denon in its default configuration which uses "Dolby Surround" for Dolby encoded material and Neural X for DTS encoded material.
The debate about which is better, rages on...


Not all discs encoded with DTS-X in the US, are encoded with DTS-X when they get a UK / European pressing.

This is the link to the US site:



Regards,
James.
Thx James.
I meant, there is a setting for the phase height speakers, when using Audyssey DSX. Setting is between zero and 10.
I am a dummy at this, so I thought there would be an optimal setting.
 

Evinger

Distinguished Member
Oh no, you've not actually been listening to your setup have you.

I've been saying what you appear to be saying for years. Be careful, they'll be coming for you soon. The DEQ people! :eek:


Here's a nice graph to keep them at bay:

View attachment 1611408
Aha! A clever trick dante01- dobbyisfree looks at this & you can again say:-

You've not been looking at graphs again have you?

Very cunning! :laugh:
 

Jase

Distinguished Member
Thx James.
I meant, there is a setting for the phase height speakers, when using Audyssey DSX. Setting is between zero and 10.
I am a dummy at this, so I thought there would be an optimal setting.

Just experiment with the different settings. 5 worked quite well in my room when I had an AVR with Audyssey DSX.
 

Evinger

Distinguished Member
Thx James.
I meant, there is a setting for the phase height speakers, when using Audyssey DSX. Setting is between zero and 10.
I am a dummy at this, so I thought there would be an optimal setting.
Here's a quick article on the setting.


It's basically faux Atmos/DTS:X as I read it, so the higher the setting, the more you produce faux overhead sound on none-Atmos or DTS:X tracks , but too much could of course sound wrong.
 

Zolotoy

Novice Member
No. Because if you re-run the calibration, it will over-write all your preferences.
What about setting Subwoofer to No. Do I need to recalibrate? Also, in case of no sub will low sounds from other channels be going from the main speakers?
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
What about setting Subwoofer to No. Do I need to recalibrate? Also, in case of no sub will low sounds from other channels be going from the main speakers?



In a setup devoid of a sub, you cannot set the front speakers as anything but LARGE. Any other speakers set as SMALL will have the frquencies at and below their associated crossover configutrations redirected to the front speakers for those speakers to portray. If present, a discrete LFE channel would also be sent to and portrayed by the front left and rights speakers in a setup devoid of an active sub.

If simply removing the sub, then no, you'd not need to recalibrate the AV receiver, but you may want to reappraise your bass management configurations?
 

Zolotoy

Novice Member
In a setup devoid of a sub, you cannot set the front speakers as anything but LARGE. Any other speakers set as SMALL will have the frquencies at and below their associated crossover configutrations redirected to the front speakers for those speakers to portray. A discrete LFE channels would also be sent to and portrayed by the front left and rights speakers in a setup devoid of an active sub.

If simply removing the sub, then no, you'd not need to recalibrate the AV receiver, but you may want to reappraise your bass management configurations?
Excellent explanation, thanks.
 

stephentw

Well-known Member
I've just redone my Audyssey after a factory reset and decided to try leaving the mic in a single place for the full set of 8 measurements. It's detected the crossovers for each set of speakers completely differently so now I can't decide which to set them to. I'm almost certain I previously had them all at 80hz but the setup has detected

Front (I have floorstanders at the front): Full band
Centre: 60hz
Surround (bookshelfs): Full band
Top Front: 80hz
Top Rear: 40hz

Strangely last time it detected the majority as 80hz and the fronts as full band so I set everything to 80hz. Should I go with 80 again or pick one of the 4 different things it's detected? The heights are all identical speakers and the floor speakers are all Monitor Audio Bronze, Sub is BK XLS200.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
I've just redone my Audyssey after a factory reset and decided to try leaving the mic in a single place for the full set of 8 measurements. It's detected the crossovers for each set of speakers completely differently so now I can't decide which to set them to. I'm almost certain I previously had them all at 80hz but the setup has detected

Front (I have floorstanders at the front): Full band
Centre: 60hz
Surround (bookshelfs): Full band
Top Front: 80hz
Top Rear: 40hz

Strangely last time it detected the majority as 80hz and the fronts as full band so I set everything to 80hz. Should I go with 80 again or pick one of the 4 different things it's detected? The heights are all identical speakers and the floor speakers are all Monitor Audio Bronze, Sub is BK XLS200.


Leaving the mic in one locatipn for all 8 measurements has no benefit associated with it. Besides which, the distance, level and roll off measurements are all done at the first location anyway and are not part of any subsequate location measurements.

Audyssey doesn't do bass management. Audussey labs themselves recommend tou manually configure speakers sizes and set the crossovers after the calibration. Denon are the ones setting the sizes and crossovers relative to the roll off measurements and not Audyssey. Audyssey was founded by a group of ex THX employees and they simply recommended what THX suggest. Set all speakers as being SMALL with a crossover no lower than 80Hz.
 

Chester

Well-known Member
I'm tempted to say go with 60Hz for all ground level speakers, and 80Hz for the top, simply on the basis your MAs will definitely go that low, but that might lead to some weird steering issues in your room, so go 80Hz all round. You can always try it and see what your ears are telling you. However, I do agree with post above. Audyssey will work far better if you have at least 6 different mic positions to measure. If your listening positions are all relatively close (say a single sofa), then focus on that area.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
I'm tempted to say go with 60Hz for all ground level speakers, and 80Hz for the top, simply on the basis your MAs will definitely go that low, but that might lead to some weird steering issues in your room, so go 80Hz all round. You can always try it and see what your ears are telling you. However, I do agree with post above. Audyssey will work far better if you have at least 6 different mic positions to measure. If your listening positions are all relatively close (say a single sofa), then focus on that area.


You'd be advised to set the crossovers at 80Hz regardless of the rated capabilities or physical size of the speakers. Why reduce your AV receiver's upper frequenct headroom in order to amplify lower frequencies that your active sub can amplify and portray without issue?

See here:


If you however want to try setting the speakers at a lower than 80Hz setting then there's no harm done by trying this and leaving it set as such if you determine it sounds better to you.


Again, bass management has nothing to do with Audyssey or room EQ correction.


Audyssey Labs:
If you have a subwoofer in your system, you should always use bass management in the AVR. Unfortunately this is not always the default setting and several manufacturers still insist on setting speakers to “Large” or “Full Range”. Doing so will prevent bass from being redirected to your subwoofer from the satellite channels. Audyssey recommends to manually change all speakers to “Small” (i.e. set a crossover frequency for each speaker in the manual settings menu) thus enabling proper bass management. This has the additional benefit of much better low frequency correction because MultEQ uses filters with 8x more resolution in the subwoofer channel. More information about this can be found on our blog post here.

The LFE signal and the bass management crossover are two different things.

The crossover is responsible for taking the bass from the speakers and sending it to the subwoofer. That should be set at around the frequency where your speakers are no longer able to reproduce bass. This is called the crossover frequency.

In 5.1 content, there is an additional bass-only track called the LFE track. This is not played from the main speakers, but only from the subwoofer. This track is authored to have content up to 120 Hz and so the filter in the AVR called LFE Lowpass should be set to 120 Hz. Always. It is a mistake for AVR makers to even make this an option as it has nothing to do with bass management.

 

Tingo

Active Member
I tried the single mic postion and found the sound to be lifeless. I have a couple of nulls due to speaker postion issues and one postion made them worse. For crossovers there is school of thought not mentioned often that crossovers can should be set an octave above there lowest rating but not over 100hz, as a result my centre is at 100 and to me makes vocals sound better than 80. Does anyone know if that method has any merrit.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
I tried the single mic postion and found the sound to be lifeless. I have a couple of nulls due to speaker postion issues and one postion made them worse. For crossovers there is school of thought not mentioned often that crossovers can should be set an octave above there lowest rating but not over 100hz, as a result my centre is at 100 and to me makes vocals sound better than 80. Does anyone know if that method has any merrit.


There's no real reason why you cannot set the crossovers above 80Hz. The only thing you have to watch out for is the frequency starting to be localised and the location of the sub becoming detectable while portraying frequencies higher than 80Hz. 80Hz is technically the recognised point at which the human auditory system can start to localise sound, but most individuals would be hard pushed to localise anything below 200Hz. It is unlikely that setting the crossovers anywhere under 120Hz would be detectable the vast majority, but you should bear this in mind.

If it sounds better to you then that is what counts :)


Basically, the higher the frequency, the more locatable the sound can become.





Again, none of this has anything to do with Audyssey or even room EQ correction.






By the way, multipoint calibration are not more accurate and result in an average of the multiple readings relative to the correction curve the calibration arrives at. Also note that only the initial location is used to take measurements used for levels. distances and the speaker roll offs.
 
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stephentw

Well-known Member
I thought 80hz and set all to that, great thanks, pretty sure I did that last time too.

I did the multi point calibration in a single place from a recommendation a few pages ago but I feel like the way it's calibrated this time the bass sounds great but all the other speakers feel quite low and I had to keep turning up to get the level I'm used to for film. I only tested it on a Disney+ stream from my Nvidia Shield. Going to try some UHD's today but I might do multi point again, I measured it out last time, I think 60cm apart each time rings a bell?

I've got Dynamic EQ on, Audyssey to reference (not tried flat yet), dynamic volume off, cinema eq off, audyssey LFC off which I think are all the right settings.

What do people set subwoofer mode to? It's at LFE now but the manual says you can set to LFE + main to send the low range from all channels to the sub. I'm guessing it doesn't matter as my speakers are set to small already.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
I think I once watched a video where it was suggested that 24" is the recommended distance between each position, but the person relating this then went on to suggest slighly less than this. I'd not suggest you go further than 2' though.


DEQ can make the louder effects sound out of balance with quieter aspects of a soundtrack. Maybe turn DEQ off.


There's no reason the dissable LFC or at least try it with this engaged.


Subwoofer would be ordinarilly set to LFE and not LFE + MAIN. The latter duplicates the same frequencies and portrays them via the sub and the passive speakers at the same time. THis can give rise to bass boom.
 
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stephentw

Well-known Member
I think I once watched a video where it was suggested that 24" is the reciommended disyance between each position, but the person relating this then went on to suggest slighly less than this. I'd not suggest you go further than 2' though.
Hmm yeah I've read so many differing opinions on mic positions that it gets a bit confusing, some say leave it in 1 location for all 8, some say move it 12", some say 6", Denon seem to say 60cm I think and no more than a meter from the initial spot. Might do some more reading and recalibrate again :facepalm:

DEQ can make the louder effects sound out of balance with quieter aspects of a soundtrack. Maybe turn DEQ off.
I didn't used to use it but a while back on the Denon 6400 thread and in the subwoofers forum there was quite a bit of discussion about using it as it improves bass when not listening at reference levels (which I never do, I hover around -15 to -20 for films and quite a lot lower for everyday type use, TV shows, games etc) so I tried it after a previous recalibration and found it good in my setup. Someone a few pages back here mentioned it too, that Audyssey doesn't work correctly without it turned on unless you listen at reference level.
There's no reason the dissable LFC or at least try it with this engaged.
Oh, I thought LFC was akin to "night mode" where it manipulates the bass to not disturb other people in the house or something along those lines?

Subwoofer would be ordinarilly set to LFE and not LFE + MAIN. The latter duplicates the same frequencies and portrays them via the sub and the passive speakers at the same time. THis can give rise to bass boom.
Thanks, I thought that seemed right, I've left it on LFE for now.
 

Dolus

Active Member
Hmm yeah I've read so many differing opinions on mic positions that it gets a bit confusing, some say leave it in 1 location for all 8, some say move it 12", some say 6", Denon seem to say 60cm I think and no more than a meter from the initial spot. Might do some more reading and recalibrate again :facepalm:
Denon recommend that the distance of any subsequent mic position should be no further than 60cm from the first position, so any distance within that circle is valid. It all depends on what gives you the best results or more importantly the ones you like the best.

As a rule of thumb, tight mic patterns give better imaging while wider patterns give better frequency response. Here is a handy guide, always good to get someone else's ideas. :)
Configuring Audyssey – The Right Way
 
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stephentw

Well-known Member
:laugh: that video and article are literally what I've just watched and read before recalibrating last night, thanks though. Pleased to confirm it seems to have gone much better this time around, speakers detected correctly except the front pair as large (as expected) but I've changed them to small. Crossovers all to 80hz again. Much better results this time.

I used the 18-20" measurement mentioned by audioholics and did 8 different points. Sounds far, far better, single point calibration for 8 readings was a total waste of time in comparison.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
The above video I posted suggests not going beyond 20" from your primarly listening location for the additional mic locations.

Watch from about 21 minutes into the video.

by default 2021-12-29 at 09.16.56.png




It is also suggest you not necessarilly do all 8 locations even if doing a multipoint calibration.


The video also stresses NOT to perform all 8 measurements from the same location, stating that this totally defeats to reasoning for during a multipoint calibration in the first place.

by default 2021-12-29 at 09.26.32.png
 

stephentw

Well-known Member
Yes I think I misunderstood a previous post and did all points in one place which was a disaster. Moving the mic between 18-20" has resulted in far better sound so far.
 

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