Article: The Best TVs and Projectors of IFA 2017

Discussion in 'General TV Discussions Forum' started by Steve Withers, Sep 4, 2017.


    1. Steve Withers

      Steve Withers
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    2. Garioch

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      Thanks - it's good to see more projectors announced and I look forward to reading reviews in the future.

      Supposedly the 55" B&O Eclipse demo at IFA uses an LG C7 (model no. OLED55C7) panel.

      21150067_10155688170416880_7279716290246130022_n.jpg
       
    3. SonOfSJ

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      @Steve Withers Mr Withers, I'm not exactly holding my breath to find out the prices of the 77-inch versions of new Sony A1 and Panasonic EZ1002 OLEDs, though I would love one!

      Specifically, how big is the Hisense direct-lit LED model with 1000 dimming zones and 2200 nits brightness? I do regret that FALD sets are becoming rarer as manufacturers make slimmer edge-lit LCD sets, influenced by the slimness of OLED. Whether a particular set is (I'm guessing here) 5cm deep front to back if edge-lit, or 8cm deep if Full Array Local Dimming, really ought not to matter since we look at TVs from the front!!
       
    4. davidcrofter

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      So it looks like the trend is going to be slim, edge-lit borderless LCD's for 2018 to try and combat the threat of OLED. Pretty sure the manufacturers went down that route before when up against plasma but it obviously isn't going to have the same effect this time around ...
       
    5. yandybox

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      Well they won't sell if they try to price match with Oled, so they need to keep the price down, which would mean Oled will need to be priced better. Win win.
       
    6. SonOfSJ

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      @yandybox It's definitely not a win-win if there are only very few FALDs!! :mad:
       
    7. yandybox

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      Why are you always angry?
       
    8. SonOfSJ

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      I'm not always angry! I smile regularly, at least once a month! :) But it is a shame about so few FALDs.
       
    9. Norman

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      If consumer awareness of OLED is growing faster than expected, Samsung might soon be left in a tricky position, being the only major manufacturer without an OLED offering?
       
    10. SonOfSJ

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      @Norman Nah, Samsung can expect to make lots of sales from Joe and Jane Public who will think that Samsung's QLED is the same as OLED.
       
    11. MahaRaja

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      Very disappointing with no new TV or UHD Bluy Ray models announced. We just have to wait for CES 2018!
       
      Last edited: Sep 10, 2017
    12. davidcrofter

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      The latest podcast seems to paint a very different picture to the one you see ... besides you simply just need to look at the distinct lack of movement on the owners threads to see that QLED has been one massive failure thus far and Samsung seem to be losing massive ground because of it.
       
    13. Norman

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      Jo and Jane public will visit their local Currys to see what "looks best".
      I recently took my wife and daughter (who aren't AV savy at all) in to a local Currys showroom and asked them to ignore prices and just pick out the TV that had the best picture. They both selected an OLED (wife liked the LG, daughter the Sony).
      I guess my point is that OLED sells itself with only price being the main barrier to Jo and Jane public.
       
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    14. Rob20

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      2018?:smashin:
       
    15. sunday2

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      @Steve Withers: Thank you for the interesting article, the pictures and the video. I can add something about the big size and 8K tvs, especially about the Sharp 70X500E. Probably it will come on market in march next year.

      The Best 4K HDR TVs of IFA 2017 - in 4K
       
    16. BAMozzy

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      QLEDs or LCD's in general have an advantage over OLEDs in HDR - significantly higher colour volume thanks to the much higher Peak Brightness and generally wider (albeit slightly) colour gamuts. Then there is the Price too - well apart from this year when Samsung thought they could charge OLED prices...

      Of course OLED's have a lot of strengths too - perfect blacks, perfect PQ - thanks to self emitting tech.

      As for 'Joe Public' and the 'belief' that some here think they would be 'confused' and maybe buy QLED when they wanted OLED, I just don't believe that would happen - not in 90%+ of situations. Why would these 'uninformed' people go out of their way to spend £2k or more on a QLED or OLED when they don't even know the difference between a UHD Premium TV and a budget TV that offers some form of HDR. Why buy a 2k+ OLED or QLED when they can spend a lot less and still get a HDR TV - ok that TV may not have a wide colour gamut or go above 3-400nits but its HDR, right?

      All TV manufacturers are 'guilty' of not labelling up their TV's clearly so that the 'average' person isn't really aware of exactly what they are buying. Some 'HDR' TV's are no more than a SDR TV with HDMI 2.0a/b ports that discard the wider colour gamut etc but looks 'better than their SDR image because its 4k (so sharper) and brighter (because the backlight is turned up). That is what a LOT of Joe Publics experience of HDR will be - a 'budget' 4k 'so called' HDR TV - not a UHD Premium OLED or QLED quality but one of the cheap LCD TV's, probably IPS panels because they look better from a wider viewing angle than the 'more expensive' LCD HDR TV's and 'Joe Public' is going to spend £2k+ when they can spend up to £1k - and that's pushing the limits of their budget and pick up an LG, Sony, Samsung etc TV that is labelled HDR so 'must' be the same HDR that OLEDs or QLEDs offer.

      I really think that 90% of those people looking to spend big and buy an OLED/QLED will have at least some knowledge of what these offer, spoken to friends etc. Whether its to watch HDR movies or go with their HDR console for gaming, the majority will have done some research and probably need to be 'convinced' that their 'up to' £1k budget is likely to be 'inadequate' in 2017 unless they can find a 2016 UHD Premium TV. A number will probably just go and buy a TV that fits their budget and be 'happy' because its a 'step up' from their HD TV but I doubt many will be going out with £2k+ in their pocket to buy a TV and then being 'confused' by 'QLED vs OLED'
       
    17. iwb100

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      I think you're wrong about people in general. Most go looking for a TV without the faintest clue. They wouldn't know what OLED was for a start. Wouldn't understand what makes a good or bad picture. When I go round to see friends or family I'm often amazed how poorly their TV's are setup. Often they are watching movies zoomed, stretching the picture across the whole screen. Or doing stuff like watching football with clear luminous neon green grass that looks horrid (they think it is great though).

      People in general do not know. Even people I know who go online and do research often read TV reviews from non-technical sources...for example a family member wanted a TV and saw a review saying the Samsung MU series were the "bees-knees" and an upgrade on the 2016 KS series. Went and spent a fortune on an MU8000 and well, it looks fine, but he could have bought an OLED for the price he paid. And it would have been far better. Even which TV reviews are generally a nonsense, using standard picture modes to assess PQ and weighting sound from the TV speakers as an important crtierion.

      Anyhow point I'm making is it is very easy to overestimate the general public's tech knowledge. Go and stand in a Curry's for an afternoon and you'll be amazed at the nonsense coming out of sales people's mouths and how much of it is believed.
       
    18. BAMozzy

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      @iwb100 I am well aware of the BS that Salesmen use to get people to spend a bit more on a TV than they hoped or even just to buy any TV from them. Point I was making though is that the majority of people who are 'joe public' want the 'best deal', spend the 'least' amount of money and may only look for a 'key word' like 4k or HDR without understanding what even HDR is.

      These people are MORE likely to buy a KU/MU or LG, Sony equivalent because its 4k HDR - even though the HDR is nowhere near the HDR10 minimum standards that the OLEDs and QLEDs are at. The fact is that most will think that the £800 budget 4k HDR branded model is not that 'different from the £2K 4k HDR TV - both are listed as 4k HDR. That salesman may push them up a couple of hundred quid to a different model using some BS just to get them to spend more, add in the 5yr extended warranty and the 'new' HDMI cables that they didn't really need - not at that price anyway, make them feel like they got a 'great deal' by knocking some sizeable money off so they leave happy with a more expensive TV than they originally planned but they are still much more unlikely to go spending £2k+ on a UHD Premium TV regardless - not when there are these cheaper branded TV's that 'sound like' they offer the same - all 4k HDR TV's but the £2k+ ones are UHD Premium. The average 'Joe Public' probably won't know the difference between UHD Premium HDR and 'HDR' on the cheaper sets so why would they go spending £2k+ when they can spend £1k and get a similar sized 4k HDR TV.

      That 'MU' may have been 'bigger', like a 65" and the 'cheapest' 4k HDR OLED was only 55". That salesman may have said something like you 'need to go big to appreciate 4k' and put the emphasis on size over quality to shift the MU TV's that people aren't buying so much. Point is though, the majority of Joe Public aren't going to bother looking at OLEDs or QLEDs, getting confused over which is which - because they don't even know what UHD Premium signifies, the difference in HDR specs of these, and would probably walk out of Curry's or other TV retailers with a 65" MU or LG LCD because its 'cheaper' than OLED or QLED and still a 4k HDR TV - thinking its the 'same' quality but cheaper. Most of Joe Public aren't going to go into Curry's looking to spend £2k+, more than their Car is worth and then get confused between QLED and OLED when that bigger, cheaper non-UHD Premium LCD that says 4k HDR is also on sale. Most of 'Joe Public' would need to be 'convinced' that the £2k+ TV is 'significantly' better, has much higher specs.

      You even see it in the comments on AV Forums - why do I need over 1000nits, my TV's bright enough! Why do I need more/wider colours - my TV looks natural enough. I can't even see 16m colours let alone 1bn so why do I need more? There isn't enough 4k content so why do I need a 4k TV? Its too unstable at the moment, I will wait for everything to settle down. HDR10 and DV are in competition and with HDR10+ and HLG its just more competing formats so I will wait for the winner. Its all marketing and hype and becoming like the mobile phone sector where every year they expect us to 'upgrade' to the 'next big thing' etc etc. Let alone those who are not as invested in AV excellence and technology.

      I still see reports that people cite about the uptake of 4k TV's and global market share. What % of households have 4k yet I bet in the 20-40 age range, 4k is much higher than say 50-60 or the over 60's. I bet 4k is higher amongst gamers and AV enthusiasts. With consoles now having 4k support as well as STB's like SkyQ, VirginV6 and BT TV all offering 4k, the market is growing. But I still bet that 'Joe Public' will go out and buy one of the 'cheaper' 4k HDR TV's thinking they are getting the 'same' HDR quality that OLEDs and QLEDs offer but at a lower cost per inch screen size.
       
    19. Cyprio

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      £5K for the Hisense Laser TV, Steve - is this correct?
      I've been reading in various journals that it will be selling for around $13000 in the US. I'll be seriously interested in one of these if we can buy it here for £5K :)
       

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