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Arnt u worried?

Discussion in 'Televisions' started by Bob Todd, Dec 10, 2004.

  1. Bob Todd

    Bob Todd
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    when u consider the bitrate and quality of many channels currently on sky and NTL, they are no where near DVD quality, especially the sport.

    arnt u a little affraid what they might do with high def.

    I know I am
     
  2. Stephen Neal

    Stephen Neal
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    Cynically - the low bitrate and quality of the current Sky/NTL services will make HD look better!

    If they pumped out channels at 9-15Mbs MPEG2 at SD many people would think it WAS HD!!
     
  3. Starburst

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    Not worried at all.
    Digital was all about cutting broadcasting costs, more channels for the same money or the same channels for less money.
    High Def is all about picture quality, there is simply no point in going to the expense of cameras, editing and playout suites, marketing etc and then offering less than optimal picture quality.

    The obvious course of action is to wait a year or so and see how it all pans out, no doubt by that time HD-DVD and Blu-ray will also be in retail thus hopefully giving you a very high benchmark, although even those formats are dependent upon the quality of the encoding process.
    Considering the quality of the US broadcasts I have no worries that SKY and the BBC will match that standard.
     
  4. Kier

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    I wouldn't be at all surprised if Sky continue to broadcast low bitrate rubbish, using HD purely as a marketing exercise with decent quality only seen on a very limited selection of channels.
     
  5. Bob Todd

    Bob Todd
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    Thats my fear, I wouldnt doubt some programs will look like some of the poor WM9's going around to fit a 4.7gb DVD, fine when the action is slow but gets abit blocky when the pace quickens
     
  6. Starburst

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    Duh:)

    Of course SD will continue, HD will be for many years a niche product only afforable by a small percentage of the UK population. SD broadcasts on ALL digital platforms are going to be around for a couple of decades I suspect.

    As ever SKY have no say in the bitrates used by the BBC, ITV, CH4, UK branded channels, Discovery and MTV family groups etc etc etc.
    If you consider SKY1, SKY movies, SKY sports to be low bitrate then every digital channel is and you really should stick to analogue, they are more than acceptable and head and shoulders above the majority of other channels.
    That's not to say that the quality couldn't be better but without any form of PQ regulation it's a little optimistic to expect DVD standard broadcasts (and lets face it DVD quality varies from disc to disc).
    Lets not forget as well that over the last couple of years great strides have been made in digital processing, large screen displays and LCD/Plasma which all require a far higher quality of source material. All digital platforms across the UK have not keeping pace with display technology (simply not cost effective) which is why HD for some will be a godsend and the majority watching on basic CRT's won't give a toss since they are quite happy with the current situation.
     
  7. Starburst

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    Are these the retail discs being sold in the US or Germany or the homemade encodes created from TS captures by enthusiasts mostly in the US?
    The difference between the two is quite noticeable and I suppose the lack of cheap dual layer DVD's and the as yet unavailable blue laser discs force compromises in the movies encoding.
    The homemade stuff certainly should not be considered as an acurate guide to what HD is capable of and while the retail wmv-hd are a huge step up they should still be looked at as a first gen delivery system, R2 DVD in the early years was pretty pathetic:)
     
  8. JayX

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    the bitrates offered by Euro1080 atm are supposed to be decent yeah? i've heard the Pioneer channel is phenomenal in terms of PQ.. so there's benchmarks out there, lets see if sky can meet them.
     
  9. Stephen Neal

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    Yep - though Euro1080 aka HD1 - are running MPEG2 as their compression. It is likely that future HD stuff will be MPEG4 H264 AVC or possily VC1 (aka WM9) - which will deliver the same level of picture quality at lower data rates. Also the quality of MPEG2 encoding technology used can make a major impact on picture quality at a given data rate.

    The benchmarks may exist in quality terms - but it isn't as simple as comparing data rates between channels - unless everything else is equal (codec used, compression hardware similar etc.)

    Also - beware of channels run by manufacturers for demonstration purposes. They will often use source material "optimised" to look great - because they compress well, and look good. They seldom use gritty, grainy de-saturated film, with whip pans, fast-motion and cutting, and smoke and flashing lights. Instead they favour sharp, noise-free, slow moving, saturated, easy to compress and look impressive material!
     
  10. JayX

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    if they do go the WMV route, that'll mean more expensive receivers due to the fact that WMV is a pain in the arse to decode compared to MPEG4 yeah? (ie you need a much higher spec pc to decode a WMVHD stream at the same bitrate as a DivX HD stream)

    i'd be interested if they move away from mpeg2 tho, as much as i like good ol' mpeg2, there's been so many developments with mpeg4, wmv etc since dvd was launched even, it would be great to see what professionals can do with the new developments.
     
  11. djsat2

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    Personally i belive if Sky and Co run an HD service in paralell to SD they are going to have to make sure the picture quality is good. If they have some big marketing compaign about hi-def and deliver something that doesnt look too good, people jsut wont bother buying it. They will have to braodcast something that looks noticable better than SD pictures, everyone now knoes that SD digital means blockiness on some channels, if people are being asked to pay a premium for HD channels they are going to want to see a noticably better picture and that doesnt just mean the resolution.

    The move from analogue has sorta been forced upon people for various reasons with a definate switch off of old analogue brodcasts in the future. theres no such urgency with hi-def as its still not really an 'official' government plan for the future of digital TV. up to now we have had to put up with badly compressed digital TV because there will soon be no alternative. If consumers can see a big difference between SD and HD they will be nore likely to pay the premium to watch it.

    MHO!!
     
  12. Bob Todd

    Bob Todd
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    no they are WM9 home brew of movies screened on HDTV, they take a 14-15 gig Mpeg2 HDTV movie and crammed it down to fit on a single layer DVDR.
     
  13. Starburst

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    Yep I've got a few of them myself, got to praise the efforts of the creators but as soon as a TS capture comes along I grab that and when the movie/program comes on HD-DVD/Blu-ray then that capture will be relegated to the trash pile as well:)
     
  14. rogeralpine

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    ...true Starburst - can't wait to see how good retail blu-ray material is over the current stuff being captured.
     

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