Arendal 1723 dual Sub1S vs SVS Dual SB3000 any thoughts?

KWB1

Well-known Member
Reading many, many reviews of the current SVS range and from what I can gather is that preference tends to lean towards the newer 3000 series - interestingly for me the PB3000 is no slouch in the Music department either - I just wander if the PB3000 can match the SVS SB3000’s Super tight bottom end due to it being ported? on paper it does go lower and you can also use the bungs to tighten things at the bottom end if required - decisions, decisions
 

sanjualf

Active Member
Reading many, many reviews of the current SVS range and from what I can gather is that preference tends to lean towards the newer 3000 series - interestingly for me the PB3000 is no slouch in the Music department either - I just wander if the PB3000 can match the SVS SB3000’s Super tight bottom end due to it being ported? on paper it does go lower and you can also use the bungs to tighten things at the bottom end if required - decisions, decisions
Yes Indeed in most of the reputed review sites the 3000 series has been received really well compared to the 4000. Especially the PB3000 as well. If I had space for the second sub location, i would have gladly gone the dual PB route
 

DodgeTheViper

Moderator
It’s a shame you guys aren’t closer to me as you could have had a listen to mine when the restrictions are lifted.
 

sanjualf

Active Member
Firstly you've got your room the wrong way round in the simulator, although it won't really change the results. Secondly you need to tick the box to time align subs and mains, and then align individually. I had to guess quite where your head position was but I think you'll find you get a better result...
Hi @Ultrasonic , just bought a 10m sub cable online and will play around physically moving my current Right sub to the right extreme corner position and will see how the response is.

as mentioned in my earlier reply , No, the changing the size to sideways on the TV right sub won't work on the PB3000 as the size won't fit sadly.

Well I heard back from Ed Mullen and his words were

'Mixing sealed and ported isn't recommended due to their differences in phase response, particularly near port tuning. There will be at least some phase cancellation that wouldn't otherwise occur with two identical subs.'

I will try tomorrow as Conrad suggested to make the TV right Sub physcially sealed and play around with Measuring REW to see if mixing ported and sealed is upsetting the response , but I have a feeling I tried all the sealed/ ported combinations before and the current one ( both ported and in current locations were the ones gave me the best combined response)
Sanjay
 

KWB1

Well-known Member
It’s a shame you guys aren’t closer to me as you could have had a listen to mine when the restrictions are lifted.
Your twin SB3000’s must sound excellent Kev - just one was superb in my room - did you consider the PB3000 out of interest?
 

DodgeTheViper

Moderator
Your twin SB3000’s must sound excellent Kev - just one was superb in my room - did you consider the PB3000 out of interest?
I didn’t when I made the purchase but I have done since, and still do tbh. Just out of curiosity though but I’m not sure if there would be a major benefit, but possibly a slight difference between the two.
 

Ultrasonic

Well-known Member
as mentioned in my earlier reply , No, the changing the size to sideways on the TV right sub won't work on the PB3000 as the size won't fit sadly.
You misunderstood me there :) . I meant you'd got your head facing your right hand side-wall rather than where your TV is (in room sim)! You have length and width the wrong way round... This is just OCD on my part though as it won't change the graphs, although if you looks at points left, right etc of the MLP it won't look in the direction you think though.
 

sanjualf

Active Member
You misunderstood me there :) . I meant you'd got your head facing your right hand side-wall rather than where your TV is (in room sim)! You have length and width the wrong way round... This is just OCD on my part though as it won't change the graphs, although if you looks at points left, right etc of the MLP it won't look in the direction you think though.
@Ultrasonic just for you, as you say it wouldn't change the graphs but done that for you.
Screenshot 2021-01-30 at 16.41.33.png


Screenshot 2021-01-30 at 16.46.43.png

Well my reply re the orientation was for your earlier reply on trying to turn the TV right Sub possible PB3000 to its side driver facing outwards to fit the area. That was what I was replying. ie the space between TV's edge and fireplace was only 50cm so it won't sadly fit the PB2000 sideways. as otherwise it would have been great to avoid the depth protruding into the room
 

Ultrasonic

Well-known Member
What are the distances to your head position, from left and rear walls?
 

sanjualf

Active Member
What are the distances to your head position, from left and rear walls?

Room is around 8.8m x3.3m

Left sub is in left extreme front corner.
Right sub is 4.7 m from left wall and 4.1 m from right wall
MLP is 3.8 m from left wall and 0.5 m from
Rear wall border
Thanks
Sanjay
 

Ultrasonic

Well-known Member
Room is around 8.8m x3.3m

Left sub is in left extreme front corner.
Right sub is 4.7 m from left wall and 4.1 m from right wall
MLP is 3.8 m from left wall and 0.5 m from
Rear wall border
Thanks
Sanjay
I'd guessed your head was more like 3.3 m to the left wall which is partly why I got a slightly better result than you. You still haven't selected the time align options I mentioned though, which you should. Well assuming you would be bothering to optimise the delays to your subs which I sure you would :) .

Front right still looks like a viable spot to me in pure subwoofer terms but you do of course have a piano there!
 

sanjualf

Active Member
I'd guessed your head was more like 3.3 m to the left wall which is partly why I got a slightly better result than you. You still haven't selected the time align options I mentioned though, which you should. Well assuming you would be bothering to optimise the delays to your subs which I sure you would :) .

Front right still looks like a viable spot to me in pure subwoofer terms but you do of course have a piano there!
This is with time align ticked. I haven't touched the delays, should I do anything about it ?
This position looks great for low end extension but a bit worry about that dip betweenaround 40-50hz
Also though the Piano is in right front corner, it is placed diagonally so there may a spot/space to put the sub there even possibly a PB3000 if I make minor adjustments. My 10m sub cable is coming on Monday so will place my TV right sub there on Monday and will have a play around.

Screenshot 2021-01-30 at 18.27.53.png
 

Ultrasonic

Well-known Member
My 10m sub cable is coming on Monday so will place my TV right sub there on Monday and will have a play around.
I think it's worth a look, noting that REW is only going to be approximate. Is it an electric piano or one with strings?
 

sanjualf

Active Member
I think it's worth a look, noting that REW is only going to be approximate. Is it an electric piano or one with strings?
@Ultrasonic It is an electric Piano so easily moveable. This is how it looks currently and I can put the Right side sub behind it in the corner

Screenshot 2021-01-30 at 21.15.10.png

Completely forgotten why I had booked the day off on Monday, it is my birthday , so I don't think wife and kids will be impressed if I will be moving the subs around and doing measurements the whole day :facepalm: So I guess this will have to wait till next weekend. I even tidied up the Living room and changed some furniture here and there to look nice, to bribe so hoped they family wouldn't mind me doing all the measuring in a day or two haha.

Ed Mullen is not at all impressed with the response the TV Right side sub was getting anyway as the response was significantly tanking below 35 so fast. He feels the Left corner sub doing all the heavy lifting is likely robbing all the dynamics/ headroom from the overall response, even though the overall FR looks good combined. He suggested to try other placements for the TV Right side sub or even try collocating the subs to the Left Corner current position with the other sub.

When you earlier meant 'assuming you will be optimising the delays to your subs' did you mean I have to go down the Minidsp route at some point, as my Anthem ARC does not Eq subs individually. Or can I set those delays individually by adjusting one of the subs' phase slowly while measuring with REW. Thanks again for all of you guys' help
Sanjay
 

Ultrasonic

Well-known Member
It is an electric Piano so easily moveable.
That's good. What I was actually wondering was if having an acoustic piano right by a sub could be a bad idea acoustically but no concerns if it's electric :) .
Completely forgotten why I had booked the day off on Monday, it is my birthday ,
Ha! It's my birthday on Monday too! I also have the day off work.
Ed Mullen is not at all impressed with the response the TV Right side sub was getting anyway as the response was significantly tanking below 35 so fast. He feels the Left corner sub doing all the heavy lifting is likely robbing all the dynamics/ headroom from the overall response, even though the overall FR looks good combined. He suggested to try other placements for the TV Right side sub or even try collocating the subs to the Left Corner current position with the other sub.
This is why I started looking for different places for your sub in the first place :).

When you earlier meant 'assuming you will be optimising the delays to your subs' did you mean I have to go down the Minidsp route at some point, as my Anthem ARC does not Eq subs individually. Or can I set those delays individually by adjusting one of the subs' phase slowly while measuring with REW. Thanks again for all of you guys' help
Sanjay
I'd guess the SVS subs have time delay adjustment? If not then yes, phase control. If you don't tick the time alignment boxes in REW's room simulator it just assumes you've made no attempt to stop their contributions cancelling each other out.
 

sanjualf

Active Member
Ha! It's my birthday on Monday too! I also have the time off

This is why I started looking for different places for your sub in the first place :)

Well well happy Birthday to both of us then tomorrow🎉🎉

And thanks again for looking into the different sub placements 👍
 

sanjualf

Active Member
Right........ and update from me after a week.

First of all a huge huge thanks to all the forum members in helping out, special mention to @Conrad. ( you were amazing with REW help and you are a LEGEND!) , @Ultrasonic for your placement advice ( hope you had a nice birthday), @Ed Mullen for your impartial advice on SVS subs and looking at my initial graphs and suggesting to change my initial positions, @DodgeTheViper for your insight into various subs, and @Gasp3621 for your suggestions and keeping me down to earth, (I could have easily pulled the plug on 2 new subs last weekend). Couldn't have done this without all your help.

Had a bit of play around on my birthday last Monday ( what better day to do this without being told off by the family haha) with initial REW setup and getting to know time alignment with the new corner positions and finally did all the ARC calibration yesterday with time aligning mains and subs.

Here are the results below

My Current setup
Screenshot 2021-01-30 at 21.15.10.png


Sub Measurements before ARC calibration

Screenshot 2021-02-06 at 08.52.23.png


Post ARC calibration and sub time alignment

Screenshot 2021-02-06 at 08.56.29.png


Final graph after subs/ main delay adjusted ( Red)

Screenshot 2021-02-06 at 09.16.18.png


Well, I am sure many of you guys will be able to make it even better, but this is the best I could do after fiddling around the best part of yesterday and for me personally this is a huge achievement... getting to grips with REW, understanding time alignment, setting things properly and measuring subs properly on mains channel etc.

The proof is in the pudding and the whole system sounds fantastic. The soundstage has really expanded, hardly able to locate the subs and the integration is superb between mains and subs. The quality of the bass, dialogue clarity and sweet treble are icing on the cake. I have also noticed a huge improvement for music and I ended up listing to my favourite songs a lot last night.

I think I may have just about scratched that itch I had and most likely I will keep my current 12.17 Edge setup for now. I will think about the upgrade in 2 years time when I will have much clearer idea of the planned house redo and the options for dedicated HC room. I am sure 2 PB3000s in those locations will produce even better bass and response but sadly I cannot accommodate a PB3000 in right corner behind the Piano and 2XSB3000 may not be that hugely noticeable upgrade over what I have now.

Thanks again all

Sanjay
 
Last edited:

barnitto

Active Member
Sanjay, that’s a great result you have there and with similar help from many of people that have helped you, I solved my sub problems . I know many people already know this but placement really is the most important thing.
 

WozzaB

Well-known Member
Right........ and update from me after a week.

First of all a huge huge thanks to all the forum members in helping out, special mention to @Conrad. ( you were amazing with REW help and you are a LEGEND!) , @Ultrasonic for your placement advice ( hope you had a nice birthday), @Ed Mullen for your impartial advice on SVS subs and looking at my initial graphs and suggesting to change my initial positions, @DodgeTheViper for your insight into various subs, and @Gasp3621 for your suggestions and keeping me down to earth, (I could have easily pulled the plug on 2 new subs last weekend). Couldn't have done this without all your help.

Had a bit of play around on my birthday last Monday ( what better day to do this without being told off by the family haha) with initial REW setup and getting to know time alignment with the new corner positions and finally did all the ARC calibration yesterday with time aligning mains and subs.

Here are the results below

My Current setup
View attachment 1455341

Sub Measurements before ARC calibration

View attachment 1455342

Post ARC calibration and sub time alignment

View attachment 1455343

Final graph after subs/ main delay adjusted ( Red)

View attachment 1455344

Well, I am sure many of you guys will be able to make it even better, but this is the best I could do after fiddling around the best part of yesterday and for me personally this is a huge achievement... getting to grips with REW, understanding time alignment, setting things properly and measuring subs properly on mains channel etc.

The proof is in the pudding and the whole system sounds fantastic. The soundstage has really expanded, hardly able to locate the subs and the integration is superb between mains and subs. The quality of the bass, dialogue clarity and sweet treble are icing on the cake. I have also noticed a huge improvement for music and I ended up listing to my favourite songs a lot last night.

I think I may have just about scratched that itch I had and most likely I will keep my current 12.17 Edge setup for now. I will think about the upgrade in 2 years time when I will have much clearer idea of the planned house redo and the options for dedicated HC room. I am sure 2 PB3000s in those locations will produce even better bass and response but sadly I cannot accommodate a PB3000 in right corner behind the Piano and 2XSB3000 may not be that hugely noticeable upgrade over what I have now.

Thanks again all

Sanjay
That's great stuff! Really pleased you kept the Edge's for now until you know your final plan.
Now I'm tempted to try REW again with my Edge's 😅
 

AmericanAudio

Active Member
AVForums Sponsor
Excellent result, and goes to prove that it isn't the just kit, it is the set up that makes a system sing.
 

sanjualf

Active Member
Excellent result, and goes to prove that it isn't the just kit, it is the set up that makes a system sing.
So True Chris......you almost got my business last weekend ........ well for the moment after hearing the results I have decided to keep my current setups.
But will definitely keep you in mind when I upgrade in couple of years
 

sanjualf

Active Member
That's great stuff! Really pleased you kept the Edge's for now until you know your final plan.
Now I'm tempted to try REW again with my Edge's 😅
Yes you should really have a play around again with REW. The workout I had with the subs and REW the last week certainly quenched my thirst of Upgraditis for the moment haha :lesson:
 

WozzaB

Well-known Member
Yes you should really have a play around again with REW. The workout I had with the subs and REW the last week certainly quenched my thirst of Upgraditis for the moment haha :lesson:
My laptop and REW hate each other! I did pick up the XTZ Analyser kit when it was on sale, I might give that a go just to get a rough idea of what's happening.
 

MI55ION

Distinguished Member
Right........ and update from me after a week.

First of all a huge huge thanks to all the forum members in helping out, special mention to @Conrad. ( you were amazing with REW help and you are a LEGEND!) , @Ultrasonic for your placement advice ( hope you had a nice birthday), @Ed Mullen for your impartial advice on SVS subs and looking at my initial graphs and suggesting to change my initial positions, @DodgeTheViper for your insight into various subs, and @Gasp3621 for your suggestions and keeping me down to earth, (I could have easily pulled the plug on 2 new subs last weekend). Couldn't have done this without all your help.

Had a bit of play around on my birthday last Monday ( what better day to do this without being told off by the family haha) with initial REW setup and getting to know time alignment with the new corner positions and finally did all the ARC calibration yesterday with time aligning mains and subs.

Here are the results below

My Current setup
View attachment 1455341

Sub Measurements before ARC calibration

View attachment 1455342

Post ARC calibration and sub time alignment

View attachment 1455343

Final graph after subs/ main delay adjusted ( Red)

View attachment 1455344

Well, I am sure many of you guys will be able to make it even better, but this is the best I could do after fiddling around the best part of yesterday and for me personally this is a huge achievement... getting to grips with REW, understanding time alignment, setting things properly and measuring subs properly on mains channel etc.

The proof is in the pudding and the whole system sounds fantastic. The soundstage has really expanded, hardly able to locate the subs and the integration is superb between mains and subs. The quality of the bass, dialogue clarity and sweet treble are icing on the cake. I have also noticed a huge improvement for music and I ended up listing to my favourite songs a lot last night.

I think I may have just about scratched that itch I had and most likely I will keep my current 12.17 Edge setup for now. I will think about the upgrade in 2 years time when I will have much clearer idea of the planned house redo and the options for dedicated HC room. I am sure 2 PB3000s in those locations will produce even better bass and response but sadly I cannot accommodate a PB3000 in right corner behind the Piano and 2XSB3000 may not be that hugely noticeable upgrade over what I have now.

Thanks again all

Sanjay

Nice one Sanj, proper setup really is key 👍

Now that you have well calibrated subs, if the devil comes knocking again, take a look into hoverBOSS platforms, it really is the next level. You can easily transfer it over to any future system.
 

IrekS

Novice Member
Hi All
I know that this thread is a bit old but when I read through it looks to me that all of you seem to be very well informed and I wanted to ask for your help with regards to picking sub.

Just want to say first that my only subs (I know it's laughable) were one from logitech z5550 and one I currently have that came with the setup I use the q acoustic 3060s along with bookshelf setup. I will be getting floor standers soon as it suits my budget plus it will color match, however, I have no idea what sub to pick.

I was planning to get svs pb 1000 pro with the option of going dual down the line as I never (sic) was considering to spent so much money to me on a sub...then I saw reviews for pb 2000, and sb and pb 3000 series...

Im living in Ireland ROI, and prices for svs subs from richer sounds are ok for base models but higher ones seem to be really expensive (compared to US pricing). I want to feel the punch of the bass but also I want it to integrate well with music without boominess.

I'm looking to get something for room 4x4m that plays well with music and movies/games (not sure if going ported or sealed, although the price is a factor).

Then I have found Arendal subs...and to me the new line 1961s or v with prices that include delivery to Ireland seems like a better deal (799 and 999EUR respectively, might strech it to 1723S). I honestly don't know about this brand and reviews seem to be rare online.
Would I be better off with going Arendal or pay more for SVS from Richersounds? (SVS seem to have more reviews etc)

Thanks Gents in advance for the suggestions, I'm really new going into quality subwoofer territory as my exp with subs suggests (and probably audio kit).
 

The latest video from AVForums

Podcast: Sky Glass, Epson Laser Projectors plus Home Cinema Subwoofers and More…
Subscribe to our YouTube channel

Latest News

PrimaLuna debuts Evo 300 Hybrid integrated amplifier
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
Astell&Kern announces AK ZERO1 in ear monitor
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
McIntosh launches MI1250 power amplifier
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
AVForums Podcast: 13th October 2021
  • By Phil Hinton
  • Published
Vestel launches Red Bull TV app on European smart TVs
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published

Full fat HDMI teeshirts

Support AVForums with Patreon

Top Bottom