Are we just Paranoid?!?!

[Budville]

Hi,

I've been browsing this forum for a number of days now and visited quite a few of the threads and it would appear to me that we are just sooo paranoid with TV's that we are looking for any imperfection or fault. Such is the nature of electronics, products such as CRT's no matter how much the cost will never be 'perfect' !

I dont understand why the public can not just relax when they have purchased their new set and not look for any faults. This way, only blatent obvious faults will be noticed and hopefully lead to more enjoybale home cinema experiences.

What are other peoples views on this?

 

[Jon Weaver]

I disagree.. Perhaps we are being 'picky' but not "paranoid".. Paranoid implies that we can see faults which arn't there.

But these faults are real and they do exist.. Its just whether we are being too sensitive to this.

However, when you have spent upto £2000 on a piece of equipment.. Its it unreasonable to accept near perfection??

The sort of problems that you are referring to are:

1. Scrolling Bars
2. Wobbling NTSC Picture
3. Dark Bands on the screen
4. Skipping picture
5. Digital Artifacts
6. Linearity of picture
7. Coloured/dark pathces on screen.
8. Geometry

Should you expect to see ANY of these kind of problems on a TV? What about when you have more than one of the able? What if you have ALL of the above?

When you are spending £2000, you should be entitles to expect to get a TV which gives you a square, properly formatted picture, which has no obvious defects.

I personally don't think that I (or other people) are being paranoid. Fussy yes!!

 

[Budville]

Jon Weaver,

You make some valid points and I except them, however, as you say, when spending that kind of money on TV's, you would expect near perfection. So, if you are expecting near perfection, why look for the imperfections. Why not just marvel at the wonderful technology companies like Panasonic, Sony and Tosh are providing us with?

 

[Budville]

What are other peoples views?

I'm probably going to open a can of worms here but does anyone think that our expectations of companies like Philips and Sony are too high so when something slight goes wrong, we jump on the band wagon?!

 

[juboy]

An interesting one this, let's look at a £2000 TV...

A definite 17.5% of that is VAT = £350 (leaving £1650)

If it's from an offline retailer, you can very safely assume a minimum of 25% profit margin = £412 (leaving £1238)

The manufacturer takes a probable 30% profit margin = £371

So, take out marketing and shipping costs (which have NOTHING to do with the quality of the TV) and the cost of materials and labour to make the TV is probably around the £500 mark, give or take a few quid here and there.

Can you really expect 'perfection' on every level for £500?

 

[Kevo]

Originally posted by Budville
I dont understand why the public can not just relax when they have purchased their new set and not look for any faults.

This forum doesn't give a reflection of the general public's opinion regarding the quality of TVs.

It is mainly made up of HC/AV enthusiats like myself, who do strive for perfection and will get 'picky' about imperfections on TV

 

[juboy]

Originally posted by Kevo
This forum doesn't give a reflection of the general public's opinion regarding the quality of TVs.

Kevo makes a good point... I wonder how many proud 100hz TV owners out there haven't ever actually turned that function to the 'on' position...

 

[Xeonic]

I think that with forums and the like the phrase "knowledge is power" comes to mind. In the good ole days, if you had any of the (serious IMHO) problems jon mentions with a TV, especially if intermittent, you'd take it back to the shop/an engineer would come out and the fault would be most likely be described as "insignificant" or "paranoia".

Now, we know that if 100 people have the same issue, however minor, you know it's not being picky - it's a fault. Basically duff equipment gets shown up in no time, 'cause many people will report the same fault. Manufacturers know this now, and those with sloppy quality control will lose out big time.

Cost of product is not relevant - if I bought £200 TV, £2000 TV or £5000 TV, I'd expect them all to a least produce a stable picture, regardless of the "manufacturing cost".

 

[Jon Weaver]

For the record.. I am not unhappy with my TV.. it has a number of faults.. Then again, they all have.

I know I said 'I expected perfection' above, but thats not true.. I don't expect perfection, but I do expect to be able to watch the TV as a it was intended. (i.e Square and stable picture, correct colours, linear ratio etc)

Some of the problem that people see are indeed picky, but some peoples TVs do have genuinly awful problem.

For example.. My Sony had a triangular green patch at the top left of the screen about 4 inches wide.. Should I be expected to accept that..

My last Sony had a green line right down the screen (Which is why I finally got a refund)? Where should you draw the line between whats acceptable and not.

Of all the problems I have now, the only one that I MUST get fixed is the fact that my picture 'wobbles' when feeding it NTSC and I don't accept that I am being picky or paranoid about that.

The rest of the problems are annoying, but they arn't show stoppers.. But I can sympathise with who have problems with their TV.

 

[juboy]

Originally posted by Xeonic
Cost of product is not relevant - if I bought £200 TV, £2000 TV or £5000 TV, I'd expect them all to a least produce a stable picture, regardless of the "manufacturing cost".

Stable picture, yes... perfection? No.

I'm also not sure how the cost of the product can be considered 'not relevant'. I would think the cost of it a product is directly relevant to your expectations of it, be they realistic or otherwise.

 

[Kirk]

One word "Ronseal"

I want it to do what it says on the tin!

I think of this situation as I do a car, when I turn the radio on, I don't want one of the headlights to dim by 50% etc.

Added to the fact, the more expensive a car you buy, the closer to being perfect you expect and in general ...get.......Not so with AV equipment.

For one thing, trying to buy a mid to high end DVD player at the moment, seems to result in which feature you are able to compromise on, there is not one player out there that does not exhibit faults with some of the abilities it claims to be able to perform.

At the moment, some AV equipment is more like Microshafts Software packages.....and I don't need to expand on that one!

 

[NeoBlade]

I agree with many viewpoints posted here... I've paid £2,299.99 for a 36" TV (I know, its overpriced >_<) but then when the image decides to distort at the top making the area un-viewable, its hardly acceptable. This isn't a tiny 1mm distortion as well... more like a good 5cm or more. On my last Tosh ZP18, half of the screen's image was destroyed.

We pay a decent amount for our equipment and theres no harm in expecting some quality from it. If of course one is not into the AV scene and is happy with a DVD player from a supermarket then thats great, theres nothing wrong with that at all. Everyone is entitled to their own views which goes for the same with expectations too when spending a few grand on a display device or on anything. Technology is advancing at a rapid rate and there will be faults, errors and bad batches out there... And usually if someone has spent money on an item and has found a fault like scrolling bars, moiré, pulsating images or massively distorted ones like on my Tosh, then of course you are going to complain about it. The only peeps whou wouldn't complain about such issues are ones that can afford a new plasma every week.

Many members are into the AV thing and can spot things like moiré and the chroma bug from a mile away... Its hardly a knowledge power stuggle between members since pretty much everyone here can and will help out those in need when asked. So if someone doesn't know what the chroma bug is, you would find an answer from the members pretty promptly about it. I haven't ment anyone who are offensive to newcomers but I'm sure there are a few lurking around... Nothings perfect in the world and one would be very naive to think so.

 

[Budville]

Thanks for all your input guys. I thought I might be treading on thin ice when I started this thread!!

The reason for getting peoples views on this, is because I am sometimes amazed at how quickly technology has progressed and as Neo Blade pointed out, when something new is launcehd, there is bound to be a few problems. This thread was not really aimed at the blatent problems some TV's have like the scrolling bars, more like convergence/geometry and focus.

Speaking of Geometry, does anyone know how much the earths magnetic field can effect this?

 

[rct]

Originally posted by Budville
how much the earths magnetic field can effect this?

Suprisingly, quite a lot! I have seen geometry improve/get worse just by rotating a TV to point in another direction!

 

[Budville]

Suprisingly, quite a lot! I have seen geometry improve/get worse just by rotating a TV to point in another direction!

In that case then, any geometry adjustments carried out by engineers should surely be done in the home and not at their work bench?

 

[rct]

Precisely! But many engineers don't have the patience (or even knowledge ) to do it on-site!

Enter the service menu tweaker!

 

[Budville]

That would explain the problems my mother has been having with her 29" 4:3 Sharp. She has terrible Geometry problems. Engineer takes the set away, says that it has been fixed and tested ok in the work shop, yet when it comes back, it is the same if not worse!