Are the last Panasonic Plasmas really all that good?

Discussion in 'Panasonic TVs Forum' started by The Style, Feb 10, 2014.

  1. The Style

    The Style
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    We've all no doubt shed a tear that Panasonic Plasma is dead. Indeed possibly Panasonic will be soon totally dead as a TV manufacturer as their LCD's are nothing special and I doubt they'll turn things around. Add to that the fact that young people think they are an outdated joke brand their Grandad would buy compared to "cool" Samsung & LG & I would honestly be surprised if their TV business is still around in a couple of years.

    But really, are their final series of Plasmas all they are hyped up to be?

    Yes they get those reference level reviews. But on every board I go on all I hear are the following complaints: Dynamic false contouring, 50hz bug. Banding on some screens. Red blobs especially on the premium VT and ZT series after all the problems with Green Blobs the previous years, plus other wonky visual problems of various sorts, all of which Panasonic will claim is "the TV operating within spec."

    I would have to say I take particular issue at the 50hz problems and the way Panasonic fan boys try and make this out to be just because 50hz is a lower number than 60hz so of course it will create a problem. Funny how 50hz never created a problem on every CRT TV, LCD TV + Pioneer, Samsung, LG, Plasma and indeed Panasonic's own older Plasma TV's isn't it? Couldn't just be the real problem is that Panasonic couldn't be bothered to calibrate the set to 50hz Pal cause they don't value Europe could it? And Panasonic's "the TV is operating within spec" line on what are clear failings in the screen is just disgusting.

    They also have atrocious amounts of input lag on console games and according to some comments on the ST60 board this lag also leads to problems with synch on surround sound and other HDMI devices.

    All of the above is pretty embarrassing when you consider their older sets never suffered from these problems.

    Then on top of that you have the usual Plasma issues of image retention, phosphor lags, lack of brightness etc, etc, which just goes with the territory. I am at heart a Plasma fan and I always prefer their more natural colours and deep blacks to LCD. But are we all being a bit too fanboyish in our love of Plasma that we are looking past some pretty, well, totally disastrous problems just because these are the last Panny Plasmas.

    So the question is, with all these things wrong, plus Panasonic own delightful attitude of "the TV is operating withing spec" why are people really:

    1) Shocked they went out of business?
    2) Think these last Panny Plasmas are the best of the best good and the best you could ever want out of Plasma?
    3) Is it really such a great loss Panny are dead when they just seemed to make flawed TV's every year?

    Let's face it many said when Pioneer died Plasma TV's in general died and...well I think they had a point. I understand Samsung might eventually have a final range of Plasma's on the way themselves, would it be possibly more prudent to wait for those than a Panasonic of shall we say questionable reliability?
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2014
  2. lentrix

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    Fair points ..... I would have bought a VT50 - but these 'red blob' issues have made me pause.
     
  3. blacksheep99

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    Go on any forum in the world devoted to a specific product and you will find tales of woe and multiple issues. Enthusiasts are the most critical people out there (also the most forgiving in some cases) and will pick fault with any issue. They are right to do this as it drives innovation however you do get an unfair reflection of a product from forums I believe. As for Panasonic plasmas, well you are only as good as the competition and all those have their own set of issues so you pay your money.....
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2014
  4. fluxo

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    What separates many Panasonic plasma TV issues from the issues that certain other TVs suffer is their appearance over time.
     
  5. blacksheep99

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    Without wanting to get into a discussion of specific brands, haven't some Kuros have issues manifest over time? The red tinge for example. All I am saying is that if you focus on any single brand they will all have issues of this nature, it is fair and right though to highlight the best and worst performers.

    I would add that issues should not be ignored but we all want innovation which sometimes comes at a price.
     
  6. PC1975

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    I was a bit concerned about the issues in the various threads. I opted for a GT60 and the picture is better than any LCD I've seen. I've had a Panasonic 720p LCD (can't remember the model), Sony HX723 and Panasonic E5B.

    The GT60 does suffer from motion judder which can be eliminated by setting IFC (motion smoothing) to mid but at the expense of soe plus other minor issues. The LCD's have motion issues too with phosphor trails. There's no perfect solution.

    Overall the GT60 pq is on a higher level than any LCD I've owned and is often extremely impressive. The colours on the plasma are considerably richer than the LCD's too.

    It's horses for courses but I think it's fair comment to say that plasma still offers the best pq at the moment.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2014
  7. wgee

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    I got my 65vt50 10th dec 2012, I have not had any problems :thumbsup:
     
  8. fluxo

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    Another Kuro example?

    In recent years the Panasonics have had these issues which have (often) appeared over time:

    Rising black levels.
    Clouding.
    Increased susceptibility to retention.
    Yellowish tinges (probably heat damage).
    Red/green blobs.
    Screen cracks (ZT).

    That's an awful lot of things to have gone wrong and those are in addition to other faults that may be there from the start. To me it suggests that there is something wrong with the way Panasonic design and test these models. There shouldn't be so many of these sets going weird after a few months use.

    If you want great picture quality, then a Panasonic plasma is a good choice. But I don't think anyone would choose them for their reliabilty. Almost every regular poster in the owners threads has had at least one fail on them and that includes people who are happy with their replacements so far.

    I'm not aware of any common faults that develop over time with the Samsungs.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2014
  9. ArmitageShanks

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    Samsung plasmas certainly have their faults. But IMO they're generally consistent issues (brightness pops, line bleed etc) that you see from day one. For the asking price, I can live with that.

    Panasonics on the other hand....you end up paying considerably more for slightly better picture quality, but then stand a good chance of having it ruined with the kind of issues mentioned here, some of which are not apparent until after few hundred hours of use. I know I'd be pretty miffed if I paid for a VT or ZT and got red blobs, DFC, suspect 50Hz processing etc.
     
  10. tman

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    I don't think there's any question that Panasonic were at the top of there game when they finally decided to pull the plug on plasma. Most independent reviews will back that up. But, Panasonic didn't really step up until they acquired Pioneers "Kuro" patents and introduced the Neo panel. Before that, their plasma's were ok, but there were a lot more players in the plasma market back then.

    Without a doubt, Panasonic's plasma's were great (my first plasma was a TH42PW4), but not perfect. They were charging considerably more than the competition though, so there was an expectancy of 'perfection' when you bought one. I really don't think that there was really that much between the high end Samsung plasma's and the Panasonic ones though. Maybe 10%, and certainly nothing that most people would notice (but we're not 'most' people on these boards are we!).
     
  11. fluxo

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    Samsung are aiming at the moon and their rockets are landing safely every time. Meanwhile, the surface of Mars is littered with crumpled Panasonic rockets :)

    People expect their sets to work reliably day in day out for years. Although I appreciate darker shades of black, that's not much good if only the repair man, who has your TV, is able to appreciate them.

    It grates a little when people say that all sets have their issues. That's true enough, but it's a bit like Mr Bean saying everyone has their faults. The number, variety and nature of the issues are important things to consider.

    I've always been happy enough with the picture quality of Panasonic's plasmas when they are working properly. I just wish they worked properly more often.
     
  12. fluxo

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    Grr ... I'm feeling annoyed at myself. Sorry for that rantish post. I generally try to avoid that sort of thing. I guess it's the overspilling frustration of having had 3 successive faulty units in a row.
     
  13. ArmitageShanks

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    Unfortunately, it seems plasma is one of those technologies that is (was?) rarely ever going to be perfect - there are simply too many variables in terms of manufacture and the underlying electronics. However, I only have to think back to when I had a CRT (which was as little as 3 years ago), and man, those things were considerably worse than any plasma! How soon did we forget about convergence issues, wonky geometry, magnetic interference, etc.:confused:

    As you said, Panasonic was going for the best possible picture quality they could squeeze out of their panels, but ended up sacrificing panel consistency and reliability in doing so, especially to meet a price that consumers would still be willing to pay (and that's a stretch).

    Samsung have kept it more balanced in my opinion and managed to undercut the competition while doing so. I still love my D6900, but I know it has faults if I go looking for them. I prefer to just enjoy its 59-inch goodness and ignore the minor problems which are rarely visible. :)
     
  14. BenRC

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    as a 50gt60 owner i can say this TV is overall outstanding. Yes theres some 50hz issues with judder, but it still far more acceptable than the smudgy pic these LEDs seem to throw at you these days.
    The problem is you'll find a 100 reviews stating these TV are flawless, perfect, reference etc so when you go out and buy one you expect it to be and it just isn't. Its the best you'll get, but for the deep blacks, perfect uniformity, and stunning PQ there are some motion issues at 50hz (not a problem at 60hz).

    Its not the end of the world like you seem to make out, its an issue when you've come from smooth LCD motion but you get used to it and these TVs do settle over time.

    Problem is people buy the TV, switch it on, put it on THX mode then run to the forums on day 1 to say its not worthy of these perfect scores (me included!)
    It does need a month or so to settle in, not ideal i know, you have to trust strangers that it will get better which could then void any no quibble return policy (30 days at my retailer).
    Like any high end bit of kit it also needs fine tuning to get the most out of it (the presets are garbage IMO even THX)

    Im as guilty as anyone of moaning about this set in the first week or so, but now I couldn't even consider anything else. I love walking past TV shops, looking at other models pictures and feeling all warm inside :p
     
  15. xit2050

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    I'm coming from a (to my eyes) perfect smooth px80 plasma, I've had the GT60 for well over a month (about 400hrs on the clock) and want to throw my shoe at my new screen every time I want to give 24p output another go...

    These sets don't have some motion issues at 50hz, they have major motion issues at 50hz and 24p.
     
  16. M53494

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    I asked a similar question in a previous thread.....Is it REALLY worth getting one?

    Im still considering whether to get a 50" VT or not. My main reason at the end of the day for getting a plasma (And that being the VT) is so I can end up with the best picture quality I can afford in a TV. I accept that the Panasonic plasmas have the best picture of any TV available at the moment (In my budget)......but do these issues they suffer from make them infact not such!?

    Ive seen comments that its only a few people reporting such problems and that out of thousands of sets made thats not such a bad failure rate - BUT, does 'Joe Public' really notice such problems? I think there may be far more sets having problems than will ever come to light on forums such as this. Panasonic are bound to try the 'its within tolerance' story to 'fob off' Joe Public and so save them the hastle/money of replacing many more sets than they really need to with people who are on such forums as this and are therefore aware of the issues and are prepared to fight for their rights. Even then, it would seem that one faulty set can be replaced by yet another faulty set - more than once too! This would surely suggest that its far more than just a few sets in thousands that are having problems. What are the odds of that happening!

    I really DO want a VT.......... At the end of the day its going to come down to me viewing the set and the retailer (Which should be TPS) giving me the confidence that they will put it right if it is/becomes faulty.
     
  17. xit2050

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    If you're talking about things like motion issues, DFC, posterisation, phosphor trails and line bleed... You would have to be nearly blind to not see them.
     
  18. onmeheadson

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    I pretty much agree with every word this!
     
  19. gibbsy

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    I've got 1536 hours on my 50VT65. The winter olympics on BBC HD Freeview is brilliant, motion is smooth with no phosphur trails. Spin a quality blu ray film and the image is so deep and colourful you could be looking through the window. I just love this set. If it's got issues then perhaps my old eyes don't see them and believe you me after reading some of the comments on the forum it made me a little paranoid for a time and I started looking for issues.

    Yes I've seen a little DFC on some broadcasts, including HD and there is line bleed on the some rolling titles, again on broadcast. Yet I don't believe any set is perfect and those who are unfortunately in possession of really faulty sets it must be really danting.

    This is my third 'flat panel' after CRT and it kicks the other two well into touch. The image problems on my first set, a Hitachi 7200 were too numerous to recall, anything from DFC to bad macro blocking, so I eventually moved to LCD, a Sony 5810 but boy am I glad I gave that to my son and to see the huge difference a pro calibrated VT can deliver.

    Hopefully the VT65 will last me until OLED comes of age.
     
  20. mikelj

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    I'm afraid I must disagree, I observe no motion issues with 24Hz/50Hz, other than the technological limitation (that's not plasma limitation btw) of repeating frames and biologically how our eyes/brain deal with it.
     
  21. luvadealme

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    I have to agree with xit2050, since I moved house and we had virgin media put in again, the picture doesn't look as good on my 3 month old 50gt60, I find myself blinking a lot as it blurs, i can't work out if I have done something to my tv when transporting it (although it was upright packed solid in boxes and blankets), or if the VM feed/tivo HD box at my new address has technical issues. Anyone know what might be causing it? Have tried changing IFC settings but to no avail...
     
  22. onmeheadson

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    I disagree with you. I have a very good eye sight and the issues you mention above are very minor imo.
     
  23. BenRC

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    or maybe have it set up so theyre not an issue anymore. they exist alright but having contrast at 80 like some do is asking for pq issues
     
  24. raymondo77

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    One Panny plasma has turned out to be one too many for me. I can't wait for this piece of sh!t VT65 to be replaced, coming from a Kuro KRA-500A and putting my faith in the reviews (on here no less!) I was expecting near perfection.

    What I actually received was a tv beset by IR, that has the worst double edging I've ever seen on anything other than bluray (which admittedly is great), and simply atrocious lip sync issues when using the built in smart functions paired up with my Yamaha AV receiver (which was a non-issue with my Pioneer).

    To say this has been a poor experience would be an understatement; from having to defend my usage habits on here, to Panasonic refusing to accept a warranty repair, to being told by Richer Sounds that it's MY FAULT that I have IR for using the built in display modes (THX Cinema - tip: DON'T USE ANY THX MODE PEOPLE, AS IT TURNS OFF ALL OF THE SAFETY SETTINGS!), this has left a bitter taste in my mouth that absolutely ensures that I'll never buy a Panasonic tv again and that I've now lost all faith in plasma and will be moving over to LCD with all of the inherent flaws in that technology.

    As far as I'm concerned Panasonic can suck my plums, I'll never spend a penny on any of their gear again.
     
  25. xit2050

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    Sorry to disappoint, but I have contrast at 49 in Pro1.
     
  26. BenRC

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    good for you but most of the issues you mention I've managed to lessen to such an extent that i don't notice them anymore. I'm finally happy with my set :)
     
  27. xit2050

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    I'm was able to lessen posterisation and line bleed to some extent, but even lowering contrast to 40 does not lessen any dfc and phosphor trail problems... If you don't notice them anymore, it's because you've become used to it or you're simply trying to convince yourself you don't see them.
     
  28. BenRC

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    DFc is there on poorer quality SKY broadcast no question, more in HD than SD, but it just doesn't bother me anymore. I have no phosphor trails at all. The fact these issues are non existent on BR or PS4 games shows thats its a signal issue, the TV can't handle crappy 50hz broadcasts swell as a good LCD. But a good LCD can't hold a candle to this set at 60hz. I know which id rather have.
     
  29. xit2050

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    That implies you play blu-ray discs with 24p turned off in the player, which in turn opens a whole other can of worms...
     
  30. BenRC

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    yeah, 24p is off and it looks fine.
     

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