Are the filthy rich for no deal?

ph3iron

Novice Member
I saw this doc where a big time money man was backing no deal?
Does this imply the rich will benefit at the expense of the average?
Or will everyone benefit?
 

Guywusere1605

Novice Member
A left wing page on FB recently posted that one particular hedge fund manager had bet £299M short, on a no deal Brexit.

If no deal goes through, it'll be an absolute fire sale, and workers contracts will be torn up and rewritten, favouring the employer.
 

Coulson

Well-known Member
Yes they are. Probably doing a bit of short selling as well (well there you go, see previous post).

This is what surprising to me about this whole thing. I'm not saying that we should stay or leave. There are valid arguments on both sides (although I'm not sure anyone is listening anymore). We could leave and there is no reason to feel that it won't eventually work itself out. The only question is how long, and how many poor people suffer in the mean time. It's like turkeys voting for Christmas. Now I know why they are voting this way but even that is strange when you look at the local populations. I would totally understand if where I lived they voted for Brexit but the opposite happened.

For all the faults of the EU (and they are myriad), what do you think will happen to poor people once we leave. I'm not talking about financial cost (of course there will be), I'm talking about the gradual erosion of consumer protection laws, labour protection laws and other related laws so that we can "help Britain be great again"

Definitely a rich man's game
 
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Coulson

Well-known Member
BBC News - Are speculators pushing the PM towards no deal?
The initial quote for this came from Boris's sister but to be honest if you think about it, the same thing happened with the Brexit vote. Farage's friends made an absolute killing.
 

EarthRod

Distinguished Member
Not forgetting of course that EU law will become a part of UK law on Brexit day. After Brexit these laws will be examined by Parliamentary legal teams over a long period of time and maybe some adjustments made to meet our UK laws more readily.

In other words the content of the laws will remain intact, but some will be rewritten to match UK legal parlance. I think that will be the procedure.
 

Sonic67

Distinguished Member
Farage's friends made an absolute killing.
How? Link please. Farage's banking buddies on the night told Farage that according to their polling, Remain had won.


Nigel Farage has said "it looks like Remain will edge it" as polling stations closed across the UK in the EU referendum.

The UKIP leader said he believes Britain has voted to remain in the European Union, on the basis of exit polls privately conducted by his friends in the city.
 

Sonic67

Distinguished Member
 

Sonic67

Distinguished Member
I'm talking about the gradual erosion of consumer protection laws, labour protection laws and other related laws so that we can "help Britain be great again"
How?

The EU sets a minimum of 14 weeks maternity pay. The UK gives 52.

Your right to holidays is from the holiday act 1938. The EU legislates for 4 weeks. You get the right to 5.6 weeks.

Equal pay was brought into the UK in 1970. Before we joined.

The EU has no laws on minimum wage. Some EU countries don't set it at all. The UK has one of the highest.

Laws on sex and race discrimination date back to before we joined.
 

Coulson

Well-known Member
What's to stop them? Court of human rights? Nope, not anymore. Now I'm not saying that it's not flawed because it is. But that's like saying we shouldn't have courts at all because they have been shown to be biased against certain communities. Yes they have been, but you still need courts.
 

Coulson

Well-known Member
How?

The EU sets a minimum of 14 weeks maternity pay. The UK gives 52.

Your right to holidays is from the holiday act 1938. The EU legislates for 4 weeks. You get the right to 5.6 weeks.

Equal pay was brought into the UK in 1970. Before we joined.

The EU has no laws on minimum wage. Some EU countries don't set it at all. The UK has one of the highest.

Laws on sex and race discrimination date back to before we joined.
Yes and you make some great points (I did say there are good arguments of both sides), but I still ask the same question, what is to stop these rights from being eroded? Can't you see the gradual centralisation of power that is occurring around the world. The only difference here is that the lords and ladies of this land don't want to share.

If for example the Europeans do leave, who does that leave to do the work the English don't want to do? In the past it was the West Indians, who will it be now?

If and when Brexit happens there will be one common refrain. Let's make Britain great again! Let's get Britain working again! Both are the same thing meant to engender a sense of pride in the country ,which is good, but my "guess" is that is will enable the exploiting that sentiment and exploiting of the workforce. By the way, I'm not a union person (most have been rendered toothless) and I'm not a lefty. It just seems obvious to me that the very people pushing for Brexit are not the kind of people who are would do something to harm themselves.
 
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Goooner

Distinguished Member
Yes, the gradual centralisation if power going to the EU.
 

Sonic67

Distinguished Member
What's to stop them? Court of human rights? Nope, not anymore. Now I'm not saying that it's not flawed because it is. But that's like saying we shouldn't have courts at all because they have been shown to be biased against certain communities. Yes they have been, but you still need courts.
See edited post. We got the rights we have without the EU.

You are also missing the obvious with your project fear. The electorate. Would you vote to see less rights for yourself? Why would anyone else? How is it a vote winner?
 

Coulson

Well-known Member
See edited post. We got the rights we have without the EU.

You are also missing the obvious with your project fear. The electorate. Would you vote to see less rights for yourself? Why would anyone else? How is it a vote winner?
Read my full (edited) post. I don't believe in Project Fear because I know that it's just another slogan (just like 350 million for the NHS). As for your question? Simples. The regions that mostly voted for Brexit are the same regions that mostly benefited from EU subsidies. How is that a vote winner?

I can see the problems with the EU, we all can, but I'm just not sure this is the answer.
 

Goooner

Distinguished Member
What is the answer then? Reforming from within is clearly a non starter. Cameron went cap in hand begging for any scraps that he could spin to say “see, they will listen” and they sent him back with nothing.
 

Coulson

Well-known Member
How? Link please. Farage's banking buddies on the night told Farage that according to their polling, Remain had won.


Nigel Farage has said "it looks like Remain will edge it" as polling stations closed across the UK in the EU referendum.

The UKIP leader said he believes Britain has voted to remain in the European Union, on the basis of exit polls privately conducted by his friends in the city.
Exactly!
The following article is from the Guardian (*not always my favourite source*) but it does link on one of the original articles from the Times (unfortunately behind the paywall) and quotes extensively from Bloomberg. Nigel Farage denies shorting value of sterling on night of Brexit vote
What it essential says is that both the Times and Bloomberg suspect the Farage was "deliberately" playing up the potential win of Remain in order to drive the value of the pound up and that he had knowledge of a final exit poll which predicted that the Leave campaign would likely be the winner.
 

SimonB91

Active Member
A prominent MP who has been on both sides, said during a meeting I was involved in before the vote that he envisaged the EU becoming the United States of Europe in the very near future with France/Germany at its helm. With the ‘new boys’ pushed out/part of a separate wider EU group.

To this day, when you ask him about that he still agrees and I have to say I do too. On that basis, I don’t think it’s necessarily just the ‘filthy’ rich who are pro-Brexit or who will benefit. They are just making the most of the situation, wouldn’t we all given the opportunity?

As someone else said, things will sort themselves in the end regardless but I think if we leave with no deal, a deal will soon be done once both sides have stopped being so proud/stubborn.
 

Coulson

Well-known Member
As someone else said, things will sort themselves in the end regardless but I think if we leave with no deal, a deal will soon be done once both sides have stopped being so proud/stubborn.
One can hope but I just can't see Boris doing this. If the leaks for his current plans are anywhere near true then the Irish are already saying it's a non starter and the rumour is that the EU are saying that it doesn't give the same guarantees as the backstop.

I suppose I should just get the popcorn out :)
 

Coulson

Well-known Member
Yes, the gradual centralisation if power going to the EU.
Agreed, but with at least a veneer of higher goals. Here it looks like just a straight grab for power.
 

Goooner

Distinguished Member
That’s exactly what it looks like to me too, but with the EU grabbing the power.
 

Coulson

Well-known Member
Both sides are getting rich off of Brexit. Of that there is no question.
Sorry who is the other side? Not the poor I assume?
 

Coulson

Well-known Member
That’s exactly what it looks like to me too, but with the EU grabbing the power.
You really can't see the power grab on this side of the pond? You can almost see them salivating lol.
 

Coulson

Well-known Member

Coulson

Well-known Member
What is the answer then? Reforming from within is clearly a non starter. Cameron went cap in hand begging for any scraps that he could spin to say “see, they will listen” and they sent him back with nothing.
We are the only county that gets a rebate. Thatcher did that! While were were in the EU almost all attempts to create a United States of Europe were blocked by Britain. As soon as we said we are going to leave, it gave them the excuse and impetus to actually speed up the project! So what we have actually done is counter-productive to the original aim.
 

GadgetObsessed

Well-known Member
Technically anyone can make money from Brexit (a) if they choose to short Sterling (or place a spread bet on Sterling declining, or buy a put option, or buy assets in dollars, etc.) and (b) as a result of Brexit Sterling falls further.

However, being a short seller (or a spread better) is a risky business. If the market for Sterling moves in the opposite direction then you will lose heavily.

Personally, I have absolutely no problem with people taking short positions on Sterling ahead of Brexit. They are essentially risking their (or their clients money if they are a fund manager or hedge fund) on a guess of a future outcome. Such short sellers could lose money from such a bet. If they do make money then they are making their money from the person who took the opposite bet. A short seller needs someone to buy what they are selling at the price the two parties agree. If everyone feels that Sterling is likely to fall then the short seller will only make money if they find someone to trade with who believes that Sterling will fall less than the short seller does. Short sellers often make a loss.

It is important to remember that if short sellers do make money on Sterling it costs the person they are trading with but not the country as a whole. Some of the press stories about short selling of Sterling seem to imply that if the short sellers make £1 billion profit then somehow it is the Government or the UK as a whole that lose £1 billion. That is simply not the case. Maybe they are linking this situation with Sterling falling out of the ERM. George Soros made a billions by essentially short selling Sterling - which did fall significantly. (He did not do anything wrong - he just guessed correctly and had the funds behind him to make a fortune.) This did cost the UK government billions because they were trying to support Sterling and raise its price by repeatedly buying more and more of it. The Government lost money because they bought Sterling at a high price and later had to sell it at a lower price. The Government did not directly lose money to Soros.
 

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