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Are seamless edits possible without resort to a PC?

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by geordie, Jun 27, 2004.

  1. geordie

    geordie
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    I have read several posts on numerous threads referring to edits on hard drive recorders being less than seamless. Up to half a second of picture freeze, sound loss or a few extra frames doesn't matter when you are just editing out adverts from a tv recording. But when you edit camcorder footage for archiving to dvd-r or ram you need to have a smooth seamless join. A few extra frames (as the machine adjusts to the nearest I frame) would be OK or even a few lost frames, but NOT picture freeze or sound loss. Which of the hard drive DVD recorders is best at near seamless edits or are they all of a muchness on this point? What are the experiences of owners of Panasonic DMRE100, E85, Toshiba RDXS30 and 32, Pioneer 5100? Or do you have to go the PC route for this, in which case what use are the DV inputs on these machines?
     
  2. Rasczak

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    The problem is MPEG2 does not support frame accurate editting.

    On machines from the HDD/DVDR Panasonic series you can indeed make seemless edits by recording to the HDD and then dubbing (at 1x speed only) to DVD-R. Obviously this requires the recording to be re-encoded though with a slight drop in quality. If you dub at high speed to DVD-R (a lossless transfer) then you will find one or two extra frames may have slipped through the net.

    With Pioneer machines you do tend to get a slight pause at edit points. I am not sure if this has changed with their new machines - perhaps a current Pioneer user can enlighten us?

    Refer to the Toshiba threads for advise on how their editting attempts are going.
     
  3. Kevo

    Kevo
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    I have the Pan E100 and have never been able to achieve 'seamless' editing on either of the settings.

    This is what I miss from my old VCR.

    But even that can't compare to the editing facilities on a simple software package liek Uldead Video Studio or Pinnacle Studio. Which i'm afraid is probably your best bet.
     
  4. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    Kevo, you need to turn "Seemless Playback" to OFF. Then you can dub (in realtime/rate conversion) to DVD-R and have frame accurate edits albeit with the loss of quality.
     
  5. Kevo

    Kevo
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    Thanks Rasczak.
    However, I should point out that I'm referring to DVD-RAM and not HDD or DVD-R.
    I usually do all the DVD-R stuff on the PC.
     
  6. geordie

    geordie
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    Kevo, can you describe what the edits look like on your Panasonic? Missing or gaining a few frames is one thing, but you still want a clean join if you are assemble editing from camcorder footage.
     
  7. EN

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    It is not quite true that MPEG2 is not able to to do frame accuracy editing. MPEG 2 can support I-frame only very similar to MJPEG.
    Only HDD recorder with such mode known to me is JVC HS4, HDD+S-VHS.
    I made some recording to the HDD (music videos) with perfect join points. Then I recorded all to DVD-R (SONY GX7).
    Plese note than in this mode rime for recording is only 6h.
     
  8. GoldFish

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    Well I can confirm that the Tosh do also suffers from the slight pause at the joining points. Have a look at my post on http://www.avforums.com/frame.html?http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138097
     
  9. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    You'll note I didn't say can't - I said does not support. Obviously programmes such as Womble allow frame accurate editting. It is also achieveable in other programmes which then alter the video stream to fit the edit by placing appropriate I frames in the correct place. However no set-top can currently do this.

    Placing markers on a video stream can be done at the frame accurate level on ANY device that re-encodes a recording in realtime. The only reason this issue has arisen now is due to the 'digital dubbing age' with the emergence of devices such as the Panasonic E100, Toshiba RX32 and Panasonic E85 which all allow completely lossless transfers.
     

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