Are HTPCs limited with regard to audio?

[pre1twa]

After reading a post on a different forum I am under the impression that PCs may be somewhat limited in the audio that they can decode.

From what I understand a PC can only output DD or DTS (and in some cases LPCM) over HDMI. Obviously SPDIF does not have the bandwidth to output high definition sound so the only solution for outputting DTS-MA or DD True HD is via the analogue of (certain?) soundcards.

Is this right? Any thoughts?

 

[Wo0zy]

Mostly yes.

Whether you go down the analog route or go for a motherboard with support for multi-channel LPCM over HDMI, the software player still needs to decode the HD audio first as we have no HD audio bitstream solution for the PC ATM. There are two main reasons for this.

Firstly only HDMI 1.3 has the protocol support for sending HD audio as bitstream (and this is a option not a requirement hence the reason that NVIDIA's 8200 chipset claims to be 1.3 but doesn't support it). All other PC-based HDMI solutions are 1.2 or less.

Secondly, the AACS demands "Protect Audio Path" drivers in order to allow untouched HD audio to be sent and currently there aren't any. This is why all of the HD playback applications are "forced" to downsample HD audio during the decode. Cyberlink are apparently working with a number of hardware vendors to develop a secure audio solution but this isn't expected for a while.

Having said that, even downsampled HD audio sent via multi-channel LPCM to a good AVR sounds very good indeed. I'm sure there are also plenty of people that will claim to be happy with the results they get sending analog via "high end" soundcards as well. Personally I would always trust a good AVR to process my audio if possible.

Hope this helps.

Wo0zy

 

[Zarch]

Great stuff Wo0zy.

I've added this info to the HTPC Sticky along with a link to this thread.

 

[Daveybryce]

Auzentech are currently developing a HDMI 1.3 card for DTS HD and True HD, press release is in June, Card should be released in July.

Here is the response to a ticket i raised on their site

Please do not reply to this email

Ticket Subject: HDMI X-Tension

. . . . . . . . . .

Here is the last response to your ticket:

Dear David,

Thank you for contacting Auzentech.

We are developing the Auzen X-Tension HDMI 1.3 continuously.
We will press-release in June 3th and release in July.
You will be able to get the exact specification at that time.

We appreciate your support and patience.

Sincerely,

. . . . . . . . . .

 

[mossym]

i'm eagerly awaiting that card..

 

[Razor]

i'm eagerly awaiting that card..

Same here. I have been waiting since last year for this to arrive.

Not a peep out of Creative for HD sound at all and they own the monopoly for pc sound cards. Very poor. I am just glad another company has realised the demand for HD audio and are doing something about it.

 

[pre1twa]

Really good information... Thanks guys! Will be keeping my eyes on this one.

 

[Daveybryce]

Same here. I have been waiting since last year for this to arrive.

Not a peep out of Creative for HD sound at all and they own the monopoly for pc sound cards. Very poor. I am just glad another company has realised the demand for HD audio and are doing something about it.

Auzentech are the only 3rd party to be given rights to develop Creative's X-Fi cores. All of their soundcards use Creative's architecture from the X-Fi series.

But totally agree it's been a long time coming to get the card.

on that note for those of you that have BD and HDDVD players installed on your HTPC's what connections are there on the drives to connect to motherboards/soundcards, as the HDMI X-tension card will probably not utilise any onboard slots i.e. PCI or PCIe. This is only a guestimate as the X-tension DIN card available atm only slots into a free PCI slot with no connection to MOBO.

http://www.auzentech.com/site/products/x-tension_din.php#top

 

[mossym]

on that note for those of you that have BD and HDDVD players installed on your HTPC's what connections are there on the drives to connect to motherboards/soundcards, as the HDMI X-tension card will probably not utilise any onboard slots i.e. PCI or PCIe.

all goes through SATA.

the x-tension card won't use a slot as i presume it will need you to have an azuntech card already in palce that this will just hook up to

 

[mossym]

Same here. I have been waiting since last year for this to arrive.

Not a peep out of Creative for HD sound at all and they own the monopoly for pc sound cards. Very poor. I am just glad another company has realised the demand for HD audio and are doing something about it.

i wonder how much of this is difficulties in getting handshaking between video/audio cards going for hdmi. remember all the problems there was and still is with handshaking when a device (like an amp) between the source and display exists.

 

[Daveybryce]

all goes through SATA.

the x-tension card won't use a slot as i presume it will need you to have an azuntech card already in palce that this will just hook up to

Thats my fear. I have the lascalla LC-11 case and the configuration of my motherboard - the Gigabyte GA78GM one is completely wrong with regards to the positioning for Riser cards and the card slots. Maybe some modification of the riser card may allow me to fit one pci card which i guess would be sound in this instance. Have to have a play.

 

[mossym]

dremel..

 

[Razor]

i wonder how much of this is difficulties in getting handshaking between video/audio cards going for hdmi. remember all the problems there was and still is with handshaking when a device (like an amp) between the source and display exists.

Could be right there. However Creative are well known for holding a monopoly on the soundcard market (they bought out most of the competition years ago) and for not releasing updated or new hardware very often. They have a easy ride compared to graphics card manufacturers. I am looking forward to getting a proper HD sound solution.

 

[Wo0zy]

No exactly new news but for those that didn't see it

http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/1380/2/cyberlink_interview_for_the_htpc_hd_fans/

gives a good insight into Cyberlink's take on the situation.

Wo0zy

 

[Daveybryce]

dremel..

Eeeek!!!! I wonder if it's possible to buy a pci male to female cable. Have to have a look.

EDIT: phew found what i'm after at LinITX.com http://linitx.com/viewproduct.php?prodid=10899

No Dremel required.

 

[Jim_b0b]

So, I dont know if i have missed the point a little here or not, but say in the future there is a soundcard with 1.3 HDMI to support True HD etc..., how do we go about combining this with the video signal ? Because we only got one HDMI cable to plug into out TV / AV amps, right ?, dont we need the audio + visual to go through ONE HDMI cable and not two seperate cables ?

 

[mossym]

last method i saw was two ports on this card. hdmi cable from video card to audio card, then 1 from audio card to tv amp. the sound card takes the video stream and adds the audio to it

 

[Daveybryce]

Found some interesting links regarding the auzentech HDMI X-Tension daughter board. You require the X-Fi Prelude or Meridian to run the daughter board. Auzentech are also developing a Low Profile(half-height) main board for the HTPC market with small cases.

http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/1306/2/dts_hd_and_dolby_truehd_on_your_pc/

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/audio/3992-auzen-hdmi-1-3-board-pics-info.html

Anyways enjoy

 

[Wo0zy]

While the Azuentech is a promising option, Asus also have a product in the pipeline that may well appear around the same time. It's also likely that there will be motherboards with IGP's offering HDMI with support for HD audio bitstream before the end of the year for those looking for capable SFF HTPC systems.

None of these options will be of any practical use until a suitable software player is released. I've only heard about Cyberlink's plans so far. No word from Nero, Arcsoft or Corel.

Wo0zy

 

[Daveybryce]

I've been looking at the asus too. It has 3 hdmi ports, 2 external (in & out) and 1 internal, probably Asus will create mobos for internal HDMI connectors for graphics, to remove the requirement for and external hdmi cable going from the graphics to the sound card, then another going to the display.

Certainly interesting times for audio cards.