Are all (narrower than 16:9) movies in the same place?

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by Tempest, Oct 15, 2004.

  1. Tempest

    Tempest
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    Will explain myself.

    Ok, so we all (I guess) have 16:9 screens.

    But there are many films (wider whan wide) Just looked at some of mine

    2.30:1
    2.35:1
    2:40:1 (matrix reloaded)

    Not sure how many more there are out there.
    I should get of my arse and try them... but do I assume correctly that all these WILL be a different height on screen.

    And or at a different position vertically.

    The reason I'm asking is I'm going to be making some blackout strips for my screen which I know from others greatly enhances the movie experience as you have jet black all around the film and not dark grey on wider than wide screen movies.

    Originally I was going to have set positions for my blackout bars (painted or black velvet covered MDF) but I'm thinking now they will have to be movable to acommodate the variety of different height sizes (as listed above)

    Is that right ?
     
  2. KraGorn

    KraGorn
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    Indeed, they will be different heights, but they'll all be centred, meaning the black bars top and bottom will be equal heights for any particular AR.

    So yes, your bars will have to be able to expand and contract height-wise to accomodate the differing ratios.

    IIRC, around a year ago someone posted some photos of their home-made setup, the sort of thing you're planning to do .. you may want to search back on "DIY" or somesuch to see if you can find them, they may prove helpful.
     
  3. theritz

    theritz
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    That might have been mine..... :blush: :smashin:

    Tempest,


    having masks for different ratio material is probably th best upgrade I've done (recent diy subs a v.strong second !). Movie room in use at the moment, I'll come back with some pictures later tonight. If you have a fixed screen this fairly simple to imiplement, if you have a reetractable screen it takes a bit more trickery. Mine is fixed and has a top and bottom mask that move in conjunction with each other - when you pull down the top mask, the bottom mask moves up into place by the same amount.

    Laters...........


    Sean.
     
  4. Tempest

    Tempest
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    Look forward to seeing it.
    Plenty of string and pullys involved ? :thumbsup:

    Yes, I have a fixed screen (you saw photo's of it nailed to the wall) so I'd call it pretty fixed!

    My problem is, due to shelf for center, I don't have room at the bottom for a blanking strip, meaning the both need to come down from the top.

    Unless I make the bottom one a narow strip of say metal, and some cloth that hangs down from the metal strip.
     
  5. KraGorn

    KraGorn
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    Now you mention it, I'm think it probably was. :D
     
  6. theritz

    theritz
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    Tempest,

    Not lots of strings, pulleys etc.... just one cord on each side. Silly me - now I remember your screen - you posted a deadly explanation which got moved to the screen forum IIRC. The placement of the center speaker is a bit of an issue right enough - the bottom mask on my screen drops about 6/7 inches below the bottom of the screen when 1n 16:9 mode, so my centre speaker lives on the floor (angled upwards..) for those. TBH I'm not the greatest audiophile who ever lived so it doesn't really bother me - in 2.35:1 mode (which is 80% of the time or more) it sits on a shelf just below the screen - pics will tell the story later (I hope).

    If you were prepared to have two shelves, one below the other, I reckon you could replicate the kind of arrangement I have, and drop the center speaker down for 16:9 material. I can't emphasise enough the difference it makes to have 2.35:1 (and similar ratios) masked - the absence of "grey bars", however light or dark they may be, makes a hell of a difference when watching a movie. It's practically impossible to capture the effect using a camera, because the brightness of the projected movie tends to make everything else in the shot look pitch black, but fellow enthusiasts (Kramer and Vexorg) agree that it's very effective.

    More later...........

    Kragorn,

    Slightly nervous moment in case I was barking up the wrong tree.... :eek:

    Sean.
     
  7. Tempest

    Tempest
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    Looking at my (small) collection....
    And if I'm looking at it from the right way.
    The widest I have is: 2.40:1 (matrix reloaded)

    Are there any w-i-d-e-r ones than 2.40:1 ?
     
  8. moco

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  9. Tempest

    Tempest
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  10. theritz

    theritz
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    Tempest,

    Hope the following pictures make some sense...... basically shows the screen "naked" (with a nice nest of vipers underneath !) and step by step shows how the screen wall goes over it. The Top and Lower Masks are joined by a nylon cord which travel up from the Top Mask, over a cuphook and down to the Lower Mask. When one Mask is moved, the other mask moves in concert - pull the Top Mask downwards, the Lower Mask comes up and vice versa. The masks are oblong pieces of 6mm MDF, partially covered with black velvet, running in guide channels on either side. The pieces of wood which carry the guides etc. are attached to the side walls of the movie room on either side. This may seem a little "Heath Robinson", but has worked flawlessly for the last two years, more or less.

    The screen wall is made up of a single top panel, three panels across the lower portion (the centre ofthe three allows access to the PC etc.) and two narrow side panels. When in place, the areas where the panels join is invisible, even with lights on. When a movie is showing, the screen just appears in a black "void", with nothing to distract from the image being projected.

    The thumbnails below show:


    Top Mask and Lower Mask, showing the nylon cord that connects them,
    Both Masks in place 16:9 and 2.35:1, Lower Panels of screenwall in place, followed by Top and Lower Panels in place. Full Screen Wall, In action, Lord of the Rings 2.35:1, and finally Spiderman, 16:9.



    Sean.
     

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  11. Tempest

    Tempest
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    Excellent posting Theritz... :thumbsup:

    Simple but effective.
    I like the plastic tracks for the mdf panels to slide smoothy in, and the black covers to cover everything at the bottom as well are excellent.
    A sea of Blackness :smashin:

    The one thing that supprises me though is that you have managed to accuratly get the blanking pieces positioned by just knotting the nylon cord thru them.

    I would have though you would need a eyelett screw so once it was attached you could screw it in and out and fine adjust the levelness and position of the individual sides of the sliding panels.

    You must be able to knot very accuratly !
     
  12. theritz

    theritz
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    Tempest,

    Thanks for the kind words....

    Getting the distance between the masks was a little bit fiddly and took a few goes to get it just right, but once done I haven't had to adjust the nylon cord at all. The masks are perfectly counter-balanced, because they're identical in size and weight, but it would be perfectly possible to have two independent masks, each counterbalanced with a weight, so that you could move them independently of each other. I have found it necessary to adjustthe picture position (using the Vertical Position control on the projector) with some ratios because they're not perfectly centered - the "grey bar" on the top being slightly bigger/smaller than the lower one, but it's a matter of a second or two to get them aligned and well worth the effort.

    As it happens, I took the whole shooting match apart this afternoon, stripped the blackout cloth off the frame, and recovered it with screen material from Harkness Hall (bought on the forums...) - it's certainly made a difference, but because I didn't do a side-by-side comparison beforehand, it's difficult to pin-point exactly - there is a little extra brightness and clarity to the image, more "snap" if you know what I mean. I need to reset Brightness, Contrast and Sharpness as well as re-adjusting the colour balance, though; watching a movie earlier tonight I could see that it had affected the image I'm used to.

    I'd encourage you to have a think about adopting some sort of masking - as you have a fixed screen it's within easy reach and youre obviously well competant from the diy point of view. It will make a significant difference to your movies.

    Now if some kind soul would explain how to put pictures in my post above as thumbnails (as I've seen elsewhere on the forums), I could get rid of those 56k-unfriendly monsters..... having asked people to reduce image sizes in the past, I'm feeling a little shame-faced... :blush:

    All the best,

    Sean.
     
  13. KraGorn

    KraGorn
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    That's the system I was thinking of Sean, it looks stunning and I keep saying to myself I must try something like that, though I've an Onyx which has an extruded aluminium frame holding the screen and so the screen itself would be inset by about 1/2" from the masking due to this .. I'm trying to figure some lesser method that can sit flush to the screen, 'inside' the frame.
     
  14. NaimBoy

    NaimBoy
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    Hmmm..... this has got me thinking...... which doesn't happen often :zonked:

    I've just taken a random sample of 30 DVDs and only one is 1.78:1 (16:9), the vast majority are 2.35:1 and there's a couple of 1.85:1 and 2.40:1

    Aside from the minor detail that all widescreen projectors are 1.78:1, is there any merit in buying a 2.35:1 screen ?

    I'm after a fixed screen (too many stories about ripples on pull downs) and was thinking of getting a Carada shipped across the pond and they list half a dozen different formats.....

    Any thoughts greatly appreciated.... :thumbsup:

    Cheers,
    Mark
     
  15. theritz

    theritz
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    Kragorn,

    Implementing variable masking with a commercial screen that's already got a fixed frame presents different challenges - either you have the masking a little proud of the screen as you describe, or you could sacrifice a little screen size by having the masks with a thicker leading edge (the same depth as the aluminium frame) inset inside the existing frame of the screen. You could then build a framework around the rest of the screen to duplicate the black screenwall as shown in the pictures above. One way or another it would be more difficult - a substantially greater degree of accuracy in building the masks would be required.

    The setup I have was my first attempt - I had built the all-black screenwall with the screen a full 16:9 size and the comparison in effect between full widescreen movies and 2.35:1 material was dramatic. I discussed possible options to remedy this with Vexorg, a regular visitor and good mate, and we brainstormed the solution shown above. I had considered an alternative, building a permanent frame around the screen, with the sides of the frame fixed, and the top and lower portins of the frame adjustable, sliding in runners built into the sides of the frame, The advantage being that all surfaces of the mask would be flush with the surface of the screen. This would be a more elegant solution, but the necessity to go this route didn't arise because my first attempt was sufficiently successful.

    Sean.
     
  16. theritz

    theritz
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    Mark,

    Didn't spot your post until I'd replied to Kragorn....

    A 2.35:1 screen would need to be masked down for 1.85:1 material - head a bit fuzzy at the moment, but I think you would need horizontal and vertical masking....... (pretty difficult to implement) similar to that found in commercial theatres.

    Sean.
     
  17. KraGorn

    KraGorn
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    My first plan is to try to make a fixed 2.35:1 mask since most of the DVDs I have tend to be like that, fitting inside the frame with a couple of thin side-pieces to make it a single 'sub-frame' as it were .. if nothing else this'll give me some feel for the effect I can get, and with a 92" screen I can afford to lose an inch or so either side. The accuracy is something that concerns me, but after seeing your pictures again and how in particular the picture looked a lot more 'alive' without the grey bars then I feel the urge to give it a try.
     
  18. NaimBoy

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    Thanks Sean,

    That makes sense - just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything.....

    Looks like I'll just have to put up with the 16:9 format as it's going in the living room and building additional framework around it to accommodate masks isn't really an option.

    Nice solution btw...... oh for a dedicated room.... :)
     
  19. Kramer

    Kramer
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    Like this?

    You'll have to resize/compress to < 120KB to attach images.

    Another option is to just post links, like this:

    Screen Masking.

    :)
     

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  20. theritz

    theritz
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    Hi K, thanks for that....

    I understand how to put hyperlinks to images ( :hiya: ), but when I go to attach an image, it puts them in full size as above.... if I reduce them to 120k in size will it automatically make them in to thumbnails, or am I missing something essential ?

    Thanks,

    S,
     
  21. Kramer

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    Hi Sean.

    At the moment (as you know), all the pictures are on your webspace - a whopping 24 megs between all 8 :eek: :p .

    To see them as thumbnails which expand when clicked, you need to upload them to the AV Forums server. The maximum file size (.jpeg) that can be uploaded is 120KB.

    When within spec & uploaded, the thumbnails will automatically appear.

    When resized, to upload, don't use any tags ( etc.) but go to the bottom & select upload. Then browse to the resized pics on your HDD & upload.

    Hope that explains it a little better.

    I'll resize them later when I get a chance if you haven't already done so.

    :smoke:
     
  22. theritz

    theritz
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    Kramer,

    Thanks.... quite new to the wonderful world of digital photography..... I'll have a go at these later.



    Edit: K, sussed it....... :blush: :smashin:


    Sean.
     
  23. Kramer

    Kramer
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    No problem :).

    The best masking system I've seen this side of £2k :smashin: .
     

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