Arcam DV88+ Prog Scan Prob

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by Andy.T, Oct 14, 2002.

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  1. Andy.T

    Andy.T
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    Heh, well patience was never my strong point, please ignore my thread on Prog Scan DVD players. :)

    I bought the DV88+ this afternoon and very lovely it is too. However, I have hit a slight snag. The moment I set the player to Progressive (525P or 625P) I get row after row of little dots moving diagonally across the picture. The Panny AE100 is correctly identifing the PS signal, and I have succesfully played Prog Scan material before without this problem using a humble Philips 962SA. :confused:

    Obviously I'm gonna phone the dealer in the morning, and John Dawson's PM box is full at the moment. I wondered if any of you had come across this before? :(
     
  2. Rainfall

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    Andy..Sorry I can't help you with this,

    Can you tell me where did you buy it from please and how much is it please, I too have the AE100 and think this might be the player I'm looking for,

    cheers Steve
     
  3. Timh

    Timh
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    Andy, sorry I can't help you with your problem but I would also try posting in the Progressive scan section here
     
  4. Andy.T

    Andy.T
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    Thanks Tim I don't like posting on multiple boards but I've just referred them here as they may have some input. Thanks for the suggestion.

    Rainfall - I bought it from Phase 3 in Worthing near where I live for close to the RRP of £999. They are my local Arcam dealer but do a lot of home installs. They are not a pile 'em high and sell 'em cheap retailer but as I didn't require much of a demo, they were a bit flexible with the price.
     
  5. John Dawson

    John Dawson
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    Andy - I have absolutely no idea why this should happen - I will ask our team tomorrow but I doubt they can add much without seeing the projector.

    I take it from your post that interlaced video to the PJ is OK? How big are the dots, speed of travel/colour etc? On both 525p and 625p?

    Does anyone in Cambridge area have one of these PJs they can lend us for a day or so to do some trials?

    John Dawson (Arcam)
     
  6. Andy.T

    Andy.T
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    John, thanks a lot for the reply.

    On closer inspection there were 2 problems really, there were rows of slighlty pink dots (about a pixel or so big but with a slight trail) moving quite quickly right to left. There were also more general (but fainter) diagonal lines scrolling. This was present in either progressive mode but interlaced was fine.

    However, I have just found if I set the Panny from "Normal" to "Dynamic" picture mode (which should only be messing with the contrast) the majority of problems seem to go away. However, the contrast change is not so major that it is simply darkening the problem away or whatever.

    I don't know why this would be, leaving it set to Normal was fine with my Philips. But changing the settings on the pj makes it go away. :confused:
     
  7. robocop

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    Hi Andy
    This is an interesting thread as I am extremely close to buying the new DV88+ to go with my Panasonic AE100.
    My short list also included the Denon 2800mk2 and 3800,but the continuing saga of PAL progressive scan and lip synch problems with the AE100 has given me cause for concern.
    Thankfully with John Dawson from Arcam showing up so quickly on this forum, I can at least be assured that this potential problem may be swiftly tackled.
    I am going to ask my local dealer (Sevenoaks) tomorrow if they can arrange to loan me a DV88+, so I can try it with my AE100.
    If successful, I will report back my own findings.
    Regards
    Robocop
     
  8. Canoehq

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    Hi John,

    As this is probably the last thing you wanted to hear about your new player, I'm sure you want to get this sorted out asap.

    Fortunately, I live in Newmarket, work in Cambridge and have an AE100 I'm not going to be using for the next couple of weeks.
    Will that do ?:) :)

    I'm also looking to buy the DV88+, so in the interests of all owners of this popular projector on this forum, please give it a good going over for compatibility issues / bugs etc.

    Please PM me details of how / where to get it to you, and of course, pleased to help.

    regards
    Canoehq

    PS You won't break it will you ? :blush: :blush:
     
  9. Timh

    Timh
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    Andy

    I beleive Codling has the 88 with prog scan mod running with his AE100 with great results, I haven't seen him here for quite a while though. You could try sending him a PM.
     
  10. Sykes

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    John

    In case it is difficult to get Canoehq's AE100, I also live near Cambridge and have an AE100. I am off on holiday for a week tonight so if you wanted I could lend you my AE100 while I am away, only condition being that I get to see how PAL prog looks like on the AE100 before I put it up for sale (I need a projector with a longer throw lens or with sideshot).

    I could drop it off this afternoon, Arcam is in Waterbeach isn't it?

    Let me know

    Sykes
     
  11. Rainfall

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    Thanks Andy for the info, I'll call Grahams HiFi as they are only a couple of miles away & I have used them in the past to buy my Linns.

    cheers Steve
     
  12. robocop

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    Andy,
    Are you still having the same problems with your DV88+?
    Is it only on PAL discs that it happened and if so does it occur on all R2 discs or on specific titles only?
    Apologies for all the questions, but I also have an AE100 and I’m 99% certain I will buy the DV88+ in the very near future, possibly this weekend.
    I have arranged a demo with my local dealer and any further info regarding this would be greatly appreciated.

    It may also be a bit premature of me, but has John Dawson had any chance of replicating this in-house yet?

    Regards
    Robocop
     
  13. Andy.T

    Andy.T
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    Ok, I only see the problems in Progressive (525P or 625P).

    To sum up my problems ....

    a) If the picture settings on the Panny are set to "Normal" I get rows of slightly pink dots (about a pixel or so big but with a slight trail) moving quite quickly right to left.

    b) A more general (but fainter) diagonal lines scrolling. Again, if I set the Panny to Dynamic or Cinema these problems go away.

    c) On high contrast edges (a person stood with sky behind, credits etc.) there is a slight "ghosting" or halo to the right. Again this is only in Progressive modes.

    I couldn't swear that "c" wasn't present with my Philips 962sa, but "a" and "b" definetly weren't.

    I'm really not sure where the problem lies, and am certainly not going to assume it's the DV88+ when I have such a budget projector.

    That said, I'm thinking a lot of AE100 users are looking for proper PAL-PS players and the DV88+ is at the top of a fairly short list. I'm not sure if JD is going to pursue this further with one of the offers of loaning a Panny but I certainly hope so, it might result in a bunch more sales. :)

    However, let me finish by putting this into context...

    - Music has never sounded so good (I've spent the past few days digging out all my old CD's and really enjoying them:D)

    - I can cope with avoiding the "Normal" picture mode on my Panny.

    - Despite the slight ghosting the picture is still stunning, watching Monsters Inc. for example I was left wondering how the hell a £1200 projector was doing what it was doing. If however this ghosting can be made to go away I will be even happier.
     
  14. robocop

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    Andy,
    Many thanks for the quick and helpfull reply.
    I'm currently using a Pioneer 737 and haven't encounted any problems while using NTSC prog scan.
    I will go armed with a selection of discs and see if I encounter any problems;hopefully not.
    Cheers
    robocop
     
  15. John Dawson

    John Dawson
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    Just to add to the pot - thanks to Sykes lending us his AE100 I have been able to set up the system this afternoon. I used Video Essentials to recalibrate the projector (it wasn't far out!) and on 525p and component video I couldn't see any problems at all. Its 4 x 3 but the results were the same using the 16 x 9 setting on the PJ. Picture mode was "normal".

    Will try 625p in the morning when I can get some suitable DVDs. Anyway, the point is we are on the case.

    Thanks also to canoehq for his offer - depending on the outcome over the next couple of working days I may ask for a loan of that unit to see if it is any different.

    John Dawson (Arcam)
     
  16. Timh

    Timh
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    I think you will find that this is down to the componant input not being to good on the AE100, its been discussed at length over at avsforum.
    I good test is Gladiator, when you see Richard Harris watching the battle at the beginning of the film, his blue cloak has a slight ring to it on his left shoulder, you can not see this when using a pc via the vga port.
    The above example was interlaced componant.
     
  17. robocop

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    Thanks for the reply John.
    Your continued input into this forum regarding your products is a major influence in me deciding to buy the DV88+; that and the fact it's a very good player.
    Regards
    Robocop
     
  18. Andy.T

    Andy.T
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    Thanks a bunch for helping out Sykes that's great. :)

    John, thanks for taking the time to look into this. The little pink dots are easiest seen on the black bars of 2.35:1 films. It's really bizzare how they utterly disappear when the picture mode is changed and yet they do. They are present on mine in PAL or NTSC.

    I'm willing to drive mine up if it helps, but I'm beginning to wonder if I just have a faulty Panny or there's a cable/mains problem. :(
     
  19. ijwoo1

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    I have the DV88P and SIM HT200 , with both 525 and 625P I get both (b) and (c) as you describe, although (c) is only very slight and doesn't bother me too much. I also think it would be harder to see problem (c) on anything other than progressive scan. I just think PS makes it easier to see !

    On the other hand, problem (b) is quite distracting but I have found that while watching the DVD, disconnecting and reconnecting the Green BNC from either the DV88P or the HT200 fixes it, I.E The scrolling diagonal lines pretty much disappear.

    These diagonal lines have the tendency to make vertical lines look wavy/sinusoidal and the sine wave scrolls vertically.

    A good place to see this problem is the menus of Usual Suspects (R2) or Moulin Rouge (R2), where there is an animation and audio loop. The scrolling diagonal lines momentarily disappear when the loop restarts. For a time I thought it was interference from the audio channel, because the audio stops when the loop restarts, but the lines dont disappear during silent sections in the film, so I'm not so sure now. As I say to make it disappear completely I need to disconnect and reconnect the Green component video BNC. Try it, I'll be interested to see if it makes a difference for you.

    I'm hoping to identify the source of problem (b) with the help of my dealer in the next week or so.
     
  20. John Dawson

    John Dawson
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    Just to report I ran the 88 Plus/AE100 with an R2 2.35 : 1 movie in 625p this morning and could see nothing amiss. All settings of the PJ (normal, Dynamic etc) looked OK with no artifacts.

    To help others please remember I did do a full Video Essentials set up first.

    John Dawson (Arcam)
     
  21. Andy.T

    Andy.T
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    Hmm, well I guess that's good news for everyone but me heh. :)

    Whatever it is is either peculiar to me or is down to the batch of Panny I have (June 2002 but that seems unlikely). I'll try swapping out signal/power cables etc. etc. Maybe it's some sort of mains interference or something. It does seem odd this would disappear when I changed Picture mode, sounds more like something internal with the Panny.

    I have done the basic THX Optimode settings but that's not going to help the kind of interference I'm seeing. :(

    Thanks again for looking into this John, I'm sorry to have wasted your time but at first I wondered if what i was seeing was some kind of incompatability between the Panny and the DV88+ you should be aware of.

    I'll let you all know if I find any kind of workaround, in case anyone finds themselves in a similar boat.
     
  22. GlennJon

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    Hi,

    I am having the same issue with my DV88+, except that the white (almost static) lines appear on anything that comes out of the component output. It doesn't matter if prog scan is on or off, I still get white lines across the screen. The problem manifests itself either with or without a DVD in it. I have tried every combination of setting I can think of, but none of them fixes the issue.
    It works fine in S-Video and Composite outputs. Have you been able to test it with RGB output? I had a DV88 which had to be replaced because of the intermittent 'freeze/drop out' issue, and the component output worked a treat. I have notified my dealer of the issue (Peter Tyson).
    My monitor is a NEC Plasmasync 50MP1.

    Thanks

    JON
     
  23. robocop

    robocop
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    I've just bought a DV88+ last weekend, and I am getting the same problem with diagonal lines (b).
    I spoke to a Graham (a very helpful chap) on the Arcam helpdesk today. He said he would check and call me back.
    Sure enough a couple of hours later he called back.
    Apparently they are aware of this problem, and are currently working on a fix for it.
    Well done Arcam. This is the level of service that helped me decide to spend that little extra.

    Robocop
     
  24. steelej

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    Question for John, I'm not seeing any of these problems with my DV88+. Is this just an bad batch?

    John.
     
  25. John Dawson

    John Dawson
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    I don't have the precise details to hand, but it only affects some players and then generally only on PS. Hence the tests I ran on my own demonstrator were fine.

    For anyone here who has this problem please let our support people know and we'll work with you and your dealer to resolve it for you in the next couple of weeks.

    Thanks to all who logged the problem - it's not the sort of thing one wants to hear but your feedback has been really helpful in identifying what was going on and with that information we have been able to get to the bottom of the issue and put it right relatively quickly and, I hope, painlessly.

    John Dawson (Arcam)
     
  26. Guest

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    To all Arcam dv88+ with issues,

    Please keep us (future owners) upto date with your progress with resolving these minor probs

    cheers

    gary
     
  27. Andy.T

    Andy.T
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    I just thought I'd update this thread, in case anyone did a search and found it.

    Fixed! :)

    Fixed! :)

    Fixed! :)

    Thanks to John Dawson and Matt Frost (of Arcam Tech Support) all these issues have been fixed by a replacement machine.

    I should make clear they didnt take 2 months to fix it heh. I only got round to contacting them last Thursday and now have (through my dealer) a brand new DV-88 Plus swapped with no hassle. The new player (which also has the latest firmware) fixes all 3 of my niggles with the picture. I thought it looked good before but now it looks bloody brilliant even on my meagre Panny AE100. :D
     
  28. Guest

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    Andy,

    Thanks for your update,

    Do you have any or know of any other issues with the 88+

    cheers

    Gary
     
  29. Andy.T

    Andy.T
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    Only other downside that I'm aware of is a propensity to make you spend hours just being swept away by your music, even stuff you thought you'd heard to death. Oh and it'll make you want to upgrade your display heh. I think my AE-100 may be holding it back a tad. :)

    Seriously though, I haven't heard of any other problems. The great thing being if you do run into something it will be seriously looked into and worked on. You considering one?
     
  30. robocop

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    Andy,
    Basically echoing your thread.
    My DV88+ had the same issues when using my AE100.
    I contacted Customer Support about 2 days after I bought it and without no hesitation or prompting on my behalf, they said they would send a replacement out to my dealer.

    Suffice to say, the new player arrived and the picture quality has since remained nothing short of fantastic.

    The problem now is,as you have already stated, I want a better projector to take advantage of the Arcam's fab picture.

    Don't get me wrong, the AE100 has more than surpassed what I expected of it, but the Arcam is in the Premier League and I would like (but can't afford) a compatible projector to go with it.
     

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