How can the measurements be wrong? I am a seasoned audiophile but I am an engineer first. And it doesn't mean that I have ears like Audio Precision instruments. To be able to charge big bucks I need the data to support it before making lofty marketing claims. Amir's doing a service to the industry where manufacturers have been hiding their dodgy engineering efforts until now.Recently released 1.46 has cleared many of the bugs and Amir’s (AudioScienceReview) measurements are often wrong. Listen to one yourself and see what you think.
I‘d far sooner take the opinion of a seasoned reviewer with familiarity of their room and speakers, coupled with thousands of hours of other processors/amps, than the whacky measurements of a guy posting panthers. How it sounds is what truly matters here, the fact it gives the MP40 a run for its money should tell you all you need to know. Give it a listen.
Thanks for the review!
Beyond the subjective fluff about "stunning clarity", this product was comprehensively roasted on ASR with actual measurements:
Arcam AV40 AV Processor Review
This is a review and detailed measurements of the Arcam AV40 AV Processor. It was purchased by a member as "z-stock" and kindly loaned to me for testing. He said that unit arrived brand new with even the plastics undisturbed. I saw nothing in my testing that would indicate it being broken...www.audiosciencereview.com
Noise, jitter, poor SINAD, poor dynamic range, junk of all sorts, with a digital subsystem that cannot clear 16 bits (forget about "audiophile" and "high-res" blurb), comes within a hair of being designated as essentially broken.
Given Arcam's notorious bugs and QA issues, coupled with the price, I'd have to be crazy to buy this.
How can the measurements be wrong? I am a seasoned audiophile but I am an engineer first. And it doesn't mean that I have ears like Audio Precision instruments. To be able to charge big bucks I need the data to support it before making lofty marketing claims. Amir's doing a service to the industry where manufacturers have been hiding their dodgy engineering efforts until now.
On a different note, Sound United accepted that it measured the same at their end for both Denon and Marantz products with the latter measuring quite poorly.
I lost you at "Amir's measurements are often wrong". Do you have anything to back that up?Recently released 1.46 has cleared many of the bugs and Amir’s (AudioScienceReview) measurements are often wrong. Listen to one yourself and see what you think.
I‘d far sooner take the opinion of a seasoned reviewer with familiarity of their room and speakers, coupled with thousands of hours of other processors/amps, than the whacky measurements of a guy posting panthers. How it sounds is what truly matters here, the fact it gives the MP40 a run for its money should tell you all you need to know. Give it a listen.
Thanks for the review!
Yes, Steve, you really should demo products such as this and use the reviews as a guide to help you narrow down a shortlist of products.Good comprehensive review as usual - cheers for that Phil.
To be honest I'd want to road test any piece of AV equipment at this price in my own home before committing to purchasing - reviews are always a helpful guide but that's all they are - the listening environment and the accompanying equipment used by any reviewer make for too many variables to buy blind.
Those measurements are quite wrong. Amir himself admits the linearity is completely wrong and it suffers from the same downmix mistake that was corrected for the Denon review. If you look at the later review of the SDP-55 sister product you will see the actual performance level which although not ground breaking is not bad among AV products. The AV40 review was done at a time ASR was still demanding stereo products levels of performance which they later softened when they released no AV products from any manufacturer seem to offer that level of performance.
My own unweighted measurements using RCA at 2V came out as follows:
97dB THD+n
107dB Dynamic Range
I lost you at "Amir's measurements are often wrong". Do you have anything to back that up?
How can the measurements be wrong? I am a seasoned audiophile but I am an engineer first. And it doesn't mean that I have ears like Audio Precision instruments. To be able to charge big bucks I need the data to support it before making lofty marketing claims. Amir's doing a service to the industry where manufacturers have been hiding their dodgy engineering efforts until now.
On a different note, Sound United accepted that it measured the same at their end for both Denon and Marantz products with the latter measuring quite poorly.
More often than not I’m beginning to think that comments should be turned off for reviews.
Thanks, didn't follow that thread afterwards. Will check!See above.
Arcam Response is here:
Or start banning forum users like they do at Head-Fi. Come on!anything that mentions a particular other website/forum/individual should be turned off.
They blamed the poor measurements on a ground loop that just wasn't there.See above.
Arcam Response is here:
Absolutely. This shouldn't be a discussion forum after all - what a radical idea, to hear other opinions or, the horror, actual measurements! - but just a circle where we clap like trained seals.anything that mentions a particular other website/forum/individual should be turned off.
They blamed the poor measurements on a ground loop that just wasn't there.
See the reply: Arcam AV40 AV Processor Review
Every time I look at some forum page about Arcam, NAD or Anthem I see bugs, problems, broken stuff. And every time someone actually takes an analyzer to these products, they fall flat.
These companies need to sort out their game, especially for what they're charging.
Absolutely. This shouldn't be a discussion forum after all - what a radical idea, to hear other opinions or, the horror, actual measurements! - but just a circle where we clap like trained seals.
Then don't advertise the products saying the best for stereo and AV. To be honest I care a little less for AV as most of sound mix into the surround channels is SFX etc which isn't music. So the Left/Right has to be decent and hit the -100dB mark in my book to be qualified as a decent engineering effort.The AV40 review was done at a time ASR was still demanding stereo products levels of performance which they later softened when they released no AV products from any manufacturer seem to offer that level of performance.
I for one just think it's a poor show that Arcam just put out a "rebuttal" rather than engaging productively on ASRs measurements (allegedly).
I wasn’t. People can disagree on ASR without calling for outright bans. At the end of the day it’s about the pursuit of truth and you can’t get there by silencing others.That's a bit rude calling Amir a trained seal
Absolutely. This shouldn't be a discussion forum after all - what a radical idea, to hear other opinions or, the horror, actual measurements! - but just a circle where we clap like trained seals.
You mean the way ASR productively engaged with Arcam before slaughtering them?
Respectfully, I think you’re wrong. In the context of a glowing review (which in my opinion is a subjective evaluation, nothing wrong with that, enjoyable to read) I think it’s a public service announcement to point out that the product doesn’t actually measure well and doesn’t appear to be well engineered, at least nowhere as well as claimed by the manufacturer.what I said was part in jest, but the problem when mentioning said other website/forum/individual is exactly what has happened here. A seasoned AVF reviewer has performed a subjective review and the debate has become about what someone else said or measured.
I’m here for the debate and views, but referencing a third party doesn’t add to that debate or provide a view as the debate become about the validity of said third party views rather than the product in question.
personally I wouldn’t of considered the Arcam due to bugs, but it sounds a bit more stable and the review suggests that it is worth a listen.
Firmware 1.46 (released a week or so ago) has addressed many of the bugs Phil experienced. The change log is on Arcams site for the firmware download. These units really have come a long way in the past few months.personally I wouldn’t of considered the Arcam due to bugs, but it sounds a bit more stable and the review suggests that it is worth a listen.