ARC functioning strangely, is this normal ?

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by garethm33, Apr 22, 2016.

Tags:

    1. garethm33

      garethm33
      Standard Member

      Joined:
      Dec 30, 2009
      Messages:
      66
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      6
      Ratings:
      +0
      I have just purchased a new LG tv which is connected to my 5.1 surround through a Pioneer VSX-LX53 amplifier.

      Initially sky input was working with full sound but watching through tv options such as amazon prime had no sound. I have set up ARC through HDMI on both devices and now have full sound when watching amazon prime through TV/SAT on the Amp.

      What I find odd is I turn everything on the Amp starts on HDMI1 for sky, it then switches the TV/SAT briefly and the picture goes, then after 5-10secs it switches back to HDMI1.

      Is there anyway to stop this ??
       
    2. garethm33

      garethm33
      Standard Member

      Joined:
      Dec 30, 2009
      Messages:
      66
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      6
      Ratings:
      +0
      Blatant Bump
       
    3. dante01

      dante01
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Mar 5, 2009
      Messages:
      43,350
      Products Owned:
      1
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Ratings:
      +9,921
      AS far as HDMI CEC and ARC are concerned then nothing is strange. There are numerous instances of glitches and incompatibilities between different products made by different manufacturers using ARC. You are lucky that you can actually get anything from your LG TV seeing as many who own an LG often find that they cannot get anything from it if trying to via ARC. The behaviour you are experiencing isn't common to every ARC setup, but at least ARC is working for you.
       
      • Agree Agree x 2
      • Like Like x 1
      • Useful Useful x 1
      • List
      Last edited: Apr 23, 2016
    4. sounddog

      sounddog
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Dec 11, 2002
      Messages:
      3,440
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      1
      Trophy Points:
      107
      Location:
      Leicestershire, UK
      Ratings:
      +477
      As @dante01 said... ARC and CEC are glitchy, not all devices support it properly, different functions work with different combinations, etc.

      If your TV has an optical output, it may be simpler to turn CEC and ARC off, and run a optical cable back to the Pioneer amp and select the relevant input manually!
       
    5. KenM10759

      KenM10759
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Oct 18, 2015
      Messages:
      467
      Products Owned:
      1
      Products Wanted:
      1
      Trophy Points:
      32
      Location:
      Spencer MA USA
      Ratings:
      +94
      Agreed. Nothing about this set of standards is....standard.

      I have an NAD T758 and hooked up to a Samsung UN55H6500 TV and a Cisco cable TV box. When I watch TV news, I prefer no surround sound so I turn on the TV and the cable box. It lights up on HDMI1. After about 10 seconds, the T758 receiver turns on, but stays on whatever device I was last listening to, usually my Bluesound Vault or (rarely) my turntable. I get picture but no sound unless I select TV or what I usually do, turn off the receiver. It reverts instantly to the TV speaker, which is what I want in the interest of saving power and NOT listening to news readers and adverts in surround sound.

      I've not been able to rid the system of this one little bug. It's better than what it was before a little switch in HDMI cable connections, where it would also switch to HDMI3 and I would have to revert to the TV controls to kill Anynet and then go back to HDMI1. Life is full of minor inconveniences. I'll deal with the minimal one I'm down to.
       
    6. Nivek TT

      Nivek TT
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Feb 27, 2006
      Messages:
      6,301
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      136
      Location:
      Bristol
      Ratings:
      +1,939
      I experimented with ARC some 5 years ago between my Sammy Plasma and my Onkyo receiver. Never worked reliably so, as @sounddog suggests, ran an optical back from the TV to the AV Receiver.

      Damn shame to hear nothing has improved.
       
    7. themovierooms

      themovierooms
      Well-known Member AVForums Sponsor

      Joined:
      Aug 6, 2013
      Messages:
      849
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      97
      Location:
      Edinburgh
      Ratings:
      +617
      ARC is flaky at best. Some combinations work a treat, Panasonic & Yamaha being one. Some others will make you pull your hair out. As Nivek TT & Sounddog said, always run a digital cable back from the TV.
       
    8. AndySmith

      AndySmith
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Nov 24, 2009
      Messages:
      106
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      31
      Ratings:
      +36
      Just to add a bit of balance, I use ARC to get sound out of my LG 55B7 and it works well. Audio formats are better supported via ARC than optical. But there are so many combinations of equipment you can possibly chain together that I can understand why people have different experiences. Ideally it should just work, but it only takes one misbehaving device in the chain to cause problems all over the place.
       
    9. andy1249

      andy1249
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      May 7, 2006
      Messages:
      8,044
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Ratings:
      +2,248
      There is a standard set of CEC commands listed within the HDMI spec but they are optional and manufacturers are free to use their own.

      Most of the Companies that originated HDMI voted for it to be this way because they wanted a method to attempt brand lock in or “ loyalty “ as they see it.

      So Panasonic have Vieralink
      LG have simplink
      Samsung Have Anynet
      And so on....

      Commands are not guaranteed to be compatible between manufacturers, they are not even guaranteed to be compatible between different generations of product from the same manufacturer.

      There are no plans to change this situation, so CEC and ARC which is a subset of CEC is inherently unreliable.

      Most people with a multi vendor complex setup turn off CEC as its just too unreliable, and get a universal remote like the Harmony series.
       
    10. AndySmith

      AndySmith
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Nov 24, 2009
      Messages:
      106
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      31
      Ratings:
      +36
      That's fine if all you want to do it control things (and I've done this too - I've used Harmony for years, much more functionality than CEC). But ARC isn't particularly about control - it's about getting better-featured audio from one thing to another. It's a shame that ARC and CEC are codependent.

      I've turned off CEC everywhere I can, and only switched it on in the devices where I want to run ARC.
       
    11. andy1249

      andy1249
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      May 7, 2006
      Messages:
      8,044
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Ratings:
      +2,248
      Only slightly better featured audio, and that only recently with DD+
      DD+ is still lossy.
      Up until that optical and ARC were identical spdif streams.

      The LG,s recently got eARC I believe , that will do HD audio but only if you have an eARC compatible receiver.

      In any case ARC is only needed for the smart features of the TV.
      Multi vendor complex setups usually have many smart devices that can provide those same services with downstream HDMI audio direct to the receiver, which is always the better option.
       
    12. dante01

      dante01
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Mar 5, 2009
      Messages:
      43,350
      Products Owned:
      1
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Ratings:
      +9,921
      It should also be noted that not every device that supports ARC actually allows you to convey DD+ via it. You are not really going to get anything new from ARC until eARC is more widely implimented and available. eARC can convey much if not all of the audio formats you can convey via conventional HDMI, including HD multichannel formats and multichannel LPCM.
       
    13. AndySmith

      AndySmith
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Nov 24, 2009
      Messages:
      106
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      31
      Ratings:
      +36
      Correct, but this downplays the current equipment landscape. If you want Atmos and Dolby Vision via Netflix, for example, your options are very limited as things stand. I get this, now, with ARC without problems (although, yes, lossy audio).

      As things progress there should be more options for smart devices that cover all bases, and ARC can be forgotten about. And perhaps eARC will be more stable and reliable? We can only hope. I'm not sure which LGs are getting eARC though - not sure if it can be retrospectively added via firmware if the hardware isn't in place. Or are you talking about new models?

      For now, this is where we are and I'm happy that ARC is an option for me because lossy Atmos is noticeably better than 5.1 over optical (even when that 5.1 is upscaled by my receiver).
       
    14. AndySmith

      AndySmith
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Nov 24, 2009
      Messages:
      106
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      31
      Ratings:
      +36
      Good point, worth mentioning of course.
       
    15. Grumpyrocker

      Grumpyrocker
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Mar 3, 2013
      Messages:
      235
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      31
      Location:
      Dorset
      Ratings:
      +87
      Initially I used ARC with my LG850V TV and Denon X2300 AV Receiver. It all worked absolutely fine.

      But the problem I ran into was that the TV would turn the amp on, even when I didn't want to use it. And yes I exhausted all the various settings to stop this happening. The amp has an excellent passthrough feature and sometimes I didn't need all the speakers.

      I got fed up of switching the amp off. So switched off the ARC and use an optical from TV instead. Given that my consoles and Chromecast go through the amp with HDMI I'm not really losing very much. Sure I only get 5.1 from the apps from the TV but that's totally fine.
       
    16. Rambles

      Rambles
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Jul 14, 2004
      Messages:
      8,492
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      136
      Location:
      UK
      Ratings:
      +1,357
      It would be the same limitations with ARC.
       
    17. dante01

      dante01
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Mar 5, 2009
      Messages:
      43,350
      Products Owned:
      1
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Ratings:
      +9,921
      You can get 7.1 via ARC if dealing with DD+, but not all devices support DD+ via ARC. DD+ is also the only other format apart from TrueHD that allows you to convey Atmos metadata.
       
    18. Rambles

      Rambles
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Jul 14, 2004
      Messages:
      8,492
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      136
      Location:
      UK
      Ratings:
      +1,357
      Yes, but grumpyrocker was referring to his LG850V TV which does not support DD+ over ARC.
       
    19. dante01

      dante01
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Mar 5, 2009
      Messages:
      43,350
      Products Owned:
      1
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Ratings:
      +9,921
      That surprises me. LG appear to be the manufacturer that offers the most support when it comes to DD+ over ARC. THey also include the version of Netflix needed to play Atmos encoded content onboard many of their TVs.

      Dolby Atmos on Netflix


      Netflix suggest that all 2017 OLED LG TVs support tthe Netflix app needed to output Atmos and the only way any TV has to output this is via ARC because no TV has a standard HDMI output. Such TVs would all need to include the ability to output DD+ via ARC.



      It should also be mentioned that the AV receiver also has to support DD+ over ARC in order for you to be able to send DD+ to it via ARC.
       
      Last edited: Oct 27, 2017
    20. Rambles

      Rambles
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Jul 14, 2004
      Messages:
      8,492
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      136
      Location:
      UK
      Ratings:
      +1,357
      Okay, it looks like there are a range of different LG850V models, some downmix DD+ to DD via ARC and some support DD+ / Atmos.
       
    21. Grumpyrocker

      Grumpyrocker
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Mar 3, 2013
      Messages:
      235
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      31
      Location:
      Dorset
      Ratings:
      +87
      I should have been more specific. Mine is a UH850V.
       
    22. Rambles

      Rambles
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Jul 14, 2004
      Messages:
      8,492
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      136
      Location:
      UK
      Ratings:
      +1,357
      Ah, then I am afraid yours is one that downmixes to DD, but at least you know you are not missing out on anything by using optical instead.
       
    23. rpr

      rpr
      Novice Member

      Joined:
      Oct 25, 2017
      Messages:
      39
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      9
      Location:
      UK
      Ratings:
      +1
      I have to say it works fine between my LG OLED & my Marantz SR6009. I switch on the TV and the amp switches on and goes straight to TV input with sound. Initially I had no sound until I went into the TV settings and changed the audio output setting.
       
    24. Dave Lobster

      Dave Lobster
      Standard Member

      Joined:
      Dec 30, 2015
      Messages:
      34
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      11
      Location:
      England
      Ratings:
      +11
    25. Grumpyrocker

      Grumpyrocker
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Mar 3, 2013
      Messages:
      235
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      31
      Location:
      Dorset
      Ratings:
      +87
      It's no issue. If I want Atmos on Netflix I can just use the Xbox One S instead of the TV's own app.
       

    Share This Page

    Loading...
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice