Appropriate Speakers/setup?? Help please!

Andywidd

Novice Member
Hi, looking for a minimal visual eye impact of av for the usual reason (wife). Don’t know if my suggested setup will work or if it will be too much for the room. Your thoughts would be appreciated. I’ve attached a layout of proposed room. It is roughly to scale. The front of the sofa will be about 2.5m from tv which will be mounted flat on the wall (Samsung 2021 frame tv- just sold my LG oled and the deterioration in picture quality is noticeable- but we have a nice picture when the tv is off😳). The Tv side of the room is about 4.1m x 6m (the far corner is finished at 45 degrees and the left hand wall is patio doors. The beam between the kitchen and tv part is about 36cm wide and lower than the ceiling either side by about 15cm=shade bit on picture)
I am thinking about :- Dali epicon 2’s as my front left and right (I already have these for music)
Dali epicon m 375 as my centre (in wall)
Dali menuets as surround left and right ( I will ‘plug‘ these in and out and store in cupboard when not watching movie). The menuet stands are only 60cm tall which may not be tall enough as I will probably place slighty behind sofa so May need to get different stands?
In wall sub (monitor audio?.??). This will give me my 5.1
4 atmos ceiling speakers ( possibly dali E60 to keep nearly everything Dali or open to suggestions as you can’t change angle on these E60’s). This would give a 5.1.4
to use a marantz 7015 av and a naim supernait for epicons (preouts to/from av). This would leave some channels free.

There is a log burner in the corner on tv wall.😗

In the kitchen side I have drawn a square in the corner which is a cupboard (using as a pantry about 90cmx80cm x 6feet high). we are using this as a pantry and it houses the gas and electric meter. There is room to place all the boxes (av amp, naim amp, CD player, sky q etc) in here— is that okay or do I need to keep the amps away from electric meter!?)

Appreciate your thoughts on whether this is overkill in this sized room Or just a bad lay out...?
Thank you.
andy
 

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Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
So the whole space is kinda open so no walls which is not ideal clearly. And the fact that you would have to run speaker wires which would be quite visible to everyone. And finally the thing you mentioned that you have to remove the speakers and place them there when you watch movies. You would need to have them in marked spots at same angles preferably as you have calibrated the system with certain spots. All in all quite a hassle and questionable end result with expensive speakers.

You could just do 3.1 and call it a day. Or add in-ceiling speakers (1pair) slightly behind the couch and they would be surround l/r then. Now that position isn`t optimal either, but i see this popular in US in those great rooms open spaces and the guys wouldn´t change them out. So you get the effects flying there and would appreciate it most likely more than not having them. Naturally no Atmos then.

If the whole space is really open it`s nearly 50sqm by my calculation and one small in-wall subwoofer isn`t going to do much there especially near middle of front wall plus they cost so much compared to what you could get elsewhere if typical box could be considered. There is lot of options these days from different wood veneer finishes to gloss black/white! Also downfiring models so the cabinet is more like a wooden furniture, no driver/front mask visible which could be just what wife green lights. But you have quite tight space there at the front which is not helping. Naturally you would want to create equilateral triangle from Epicon mains L to R to listener as you listen music also. And then you have the log burner just where the subwoofer would have been ideally placed in the front left corner. You do have the front left side wall which may work and the wire would be easy to hide with d-lite trunking which can be put on skirting board, it has sticker at the back. I would have considered some nearfield sub also like larger sidetable or one sub behind the couch which can be "masked" if you build something around it and then wife can put something top of it but you still have the power cable visible so would need to hide it somehow toward side wall and it`s still quite wild idea for the wife i can imagine. As for the benefits of nearfield placement you would get the most impact near by as you get lot more direct energy from the sub, also it would be more ideal placement with smaller sub as you can`t have massive subwoofer or two which would be normal scenario in that type of room usually and it should reduce some room effects.

Thoughts?
 

Andywidd

Novice Member
So the whole space is kinda open so no walls which is not ideal clearly. And the fact that you would have to run speaker wires which would be quite visible to everyone. And finally the thing you mentioned that you have to remove the speakers and place them there when you watch movies. You would need to have them in marked spots at same angles preferably as you have calibrated the system with certain spots. All in all quite a hassle and questionable end result with expensive speakers.

You could just do 3.1 and call it a day. Or add in-ceiling speakers (1pair) slightly behind the couch and they would be surround l/r then. Now that position isn`t optimal either, but i see this popular in US in those great rooms open spaces and the guys wouldn´t change them out. So you get the effects flying there and would appreciate it most likely more than not having them. Naturally no Atmos then.

If the whole space is really open it`s nearly 50sqm by my calculation and one small in-wall subwoofer isn`t going to do much there especially near middle of front wall plus they cost so much compared to what you could get elsewhere if typical box could be considered. There is lot of options these days from different wood veneer finishes to gloss black/white! Also downfiring models so the cabinet is more like a wooden furniture, no driver/front mask visible which could be just what wife green lights. But you have quite tight space there at the front which is not helping. Naturally you would want to create equilateral triangle from Epicon mains L to R to listener as you listen music also. And then you have the log burner just where the subwoofer would have been ideally placed in the front left corner. You do have the front left side wall which may work and the wire would be easy to hide with d-lite trunking which can be put on skirting board, it has sticker at the back. I would have considered some nearfield sub also like larger sidetable or one sub behind the couch which can be "masked" if you build something around it and then wife can put something top of it but you still have the power cable visible so would need to hide it somehow toward side wall and it`s still quite wild idea for the wife i can imagine. As for the benefits of nearfield placement you would get the most impact near by as you get lot more direct energy from the sub, also it would be more ideal placement with smaller sub as you can`t have massive subwoofer or two which would be normal scenario in that type of room usually and it should reduce some room effects.

Thoughts?
Thanks Gasp,
I should have said that I’m about to have a ‘knock through’ so wires will be hidden and I’ll get some banana plates built in either side for surrounds so there will be minimal cable on show and only when watching movie. What about an in wall sub to right of tv and one on very back wall as well?
My old 5.1 worked well in the room half this size(current room)- glass patio door on one side and open on other side but I had a ‘normal’ sub then. It’s not a hassle to move the surrounds when not using and I’ll have 2 speaker settings on amp (5.1.4 and 3.1.2??). However may be better to just go with 3.1 from start....... ? With doing the building work now is the time to get the set up right as can be. Are there any issues with placing the amps near the mains electric meter do you know?
cheers, Andy
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Damn so hard to imagine it fully. Do you have pictures of the room? You mentioned the beam and if i understand it correct you could perhaps mount speaker on there and also the opposite side wall high up pointed down toward listeners, so they would be about each side of listeners or slightly behind (sides). Also as you mentioned getting some banana plates installed either side, but you don´t have wall at other side? You lost me there. If you have pictures then post them, you can remove them later. Insert image (Ctrl + P) there is two options either link or upload photos from computer.

It would be quite risky with the in-wall subs as you need to know the optimal spots. You can`t move them like with normal boxes to find the sweet spot. If the room is basically fully open and kinda just one big space we could have a look with program about the optimal locations, but you don`t really have much options. Again small sub or two in what is large space placed furthest away from corner is not really ideal. Usually people with tiny woofers in big space would be best to have them either close by nearfield or tucked in corner to maximize performance. Two subs can be very ideal, but you would need to place them optimally. They are fixed then if you go with in-wall models. How much you have budget for subwoofer(s)? Is there any finish you prefer specifically? Just trying to think would there be anything that your wife would accept (box).
 

Andywidd

Novice Member
Hi, best I can do is two computer generated images of room after the knock through due to start in 4 weeks (patio doors not shown on image). Ideally I would like the 5.1.4 as I can install the banana plates either in the floor, wall or kitchen unit for the ‘movable surrounds’.
the tv will be lower with epicon 2’s either side and m375 under and av receiver etc in the far corner behind the wooden door or the other side of the wall to the tv with an IR universal remote or something like that. Might be able to get a traditional sub near the dresser/cabinet near the tv. Thanks for your thoughts.
 

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aekostas

Active Member
It would be quite risky with the in-wall subs as you need to know the optimal spots.
How about placing an existing subwoofer at ear-level on the main listening position and crawling around the area to find where it sounds loudest, then plan the in-wall? I got it from this (but I am not sure if in-wall scuppers the plan):

 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
How about placing an existing subwoofer at ear-level on the main listening position and crawling around the area to find where it sounds loudest, then plan the in-wall? I got it from this (but I am not sure if in-wall scuppers the plan):


It`s not accurate method, there is just too many issues with it. I mean no harm with the normal subs as you can move them again, but making holes in wall the placements need to be spot on. Also they won´t sound loudest at middle of room (corners yes) if you still have to go with that, don´t see much options as you have tight space. The issue for me would be you are paying so much for them when you could get similar or better better performing woofer for 350-450£ so you need to have some serious talk with wife is that really the only option moving forward.

We can look the response with REW program putting the whole room dimensions at it and then move the subs/seating. Would need to know how much the main listening position is from front wall and closest side wall so left side wall. The room has 7,5m width, but no length mentioned.
 

Andywidd

Novice Member
It`s not accurate method, there is just too many issues with it. I mean no harm with the normal subs as you can move them again, but making holes in wall the placements need to be spot on. Also they won´t sound loudest at middle of room (corners yes) if you still have to go with that, don´t see much options as you have tight space. The issue for me would be you are paying so much for them when you could get similar or better better performing woofer for 350-450£ so you need to have some serious talk with wife is that really the only option moving forward.

We can look the response with REW program putting the whole room dimensions at it and then move the subs/seating. Would need to know how much the main listening position is from front wall and closest side wall so left side wall. The room has 7,5m width, but no length mentioned.
Thanks. From the tv on one wall to the wall behind the sofa is 6.25m. From the patio doors on my left to the dividing beam is 4.2m and from patio doors to far wall where kitchen is it measures 7.5m. So whole room is 7.5x 6.25 with the tv area in a 4.2x 6.25 part of the whole. I’ll have a look at that REW software to see if that helps. Thanks again- didn’t know that existed.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Thanks. From the tv on one wall to the wall behind the sofa is 6.25m. From the patio doors on my left to the dividing beam is 4.2m and from patio doors to far wall where kitchen is it measures 7.5m. So whole room is 7.5x 6.25 with the tv area in a 4.2x 6.25 part of the whole. I’ll have a look at that REW software to see if that helps. Thanks again- didn’t know that existed.

Yes click on "room simulation" when you have downloaded the program and put the whole room dimensions on it, not the tv area! Also measure carefully the exact spot where you sit and move the "head" in that spot on the program, it shows the dimension from front/rear and side wall closest. Then choose sealed subwoofer and LF -3db(hz) set 30hz example. It will look like below then. At the left side is your room and top is where you can change the dimension figures. The first room box at left shows your room and the 1 is the sub which you can move freely and it shows dimensions so you can measure at home and then you know the spots. The head is the listener so move it where you sit after measuring the spot in your room.

example.png
 

Andywidd

Novice Member
Thanks guys. Used the REW and it didn’t seem to matter where I put the sub. Still don’t know whether 5.1.4 is too much for the room this size but I’m going to go for it and hope. Cant get an installer in Newcastle for love or money to advise me.
 

Mr Wolf

Well-known Member
Is 7.1.2 an option for you? Looks like you have a lot of room behind the sofas which would really benefit from back channels which would be far more active than an extra pair of tops.
 

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