Apple TV 3 HDCP error

Discussion in 'Video Streaming Boxes & Services' started by GaryBritton, Sep 9, 2012.

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  1. GaryBritton

    GaryBritton
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    One last throw of the dice before I return the ATV I bought yesterday, I thought I should ask you guys if you can help.

    I have a couple of problems;

    1) The ATV resolution will only go up to 720p 60hz regardless of whether it is connected to my Denon 1910 or my Pio 500krp-a, other sources will switch through the amp and display 1080p just not the ATV.

    2) Whilst I can see the menu and play my music from iTunes match when I try to play movies/tv/netflix I am getting an HDCP error and the video refuses to play.


    I have swapped the inputs on the receiver in case of a dodgy input, plugged directly into the tv in multiple ports to exclude the avr not switching correctly and a dodgy input on the tv, I have tried 3 different HDMI cables, plugged it into a different tv and even plugged the ATV directly into the adsl router using an Ethernet cable.

    I am completely stumped but looking at the apple forums it looks like a very common problem so I'm leaning towards a refund rather than exchange.

    Can you guys help because I was really looking forward to using the ATV but to be honest this is kind of putting me of apple products right now.
     
  2. next010

    next010
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    Do you have the last firmware Pioneer released for it installed ?

    Thats probably your best long-shot, resolving HDMI/HDCP handshaking issues isn't always something that can be resolved by end users.

    One other thing is plug the ATV into another TV that doesnt have these problems then manually set the settings below, now try plugging it into the TV and hope you get lucky.

    Settings->Video & Audio
    Audio Output = 16-bit
    HDMI Output = RGB Low
    TV Resolution = [email protected]
     
  3. GaryBritton

    GaryBritton
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    Thanks for the suggestion but that update looks to be related to updating the DVb-t functionality in Europe. I'm not keen to update the TV in case I brick it. I know that HDCP works with the tv because SKy+HD works perfectly on there.

    Unfortunately the second tv is 720p/1080i only and so I can't force it to accept those settings because ATV won't allow me to use them.

    I've reset to factory twice and set up again and still no joy, this was to be the start of Appleifying my home cinema. Next stop was a mac mini server, guess not now.
     
  4. hutch

    hutch
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    Welcome to the wonderful world of AppleTV HDCP...:rolleyes: I've had my ATV2 for ages and never managed to get HDCP working with my Panasonic Plasma which has absolutely no issues with any other HDCP devices. Luckily I dont need HDCP for Plex but its very annoying nonetheless.
     
  5. GaryBritton

    GaryBritton
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    Looks like it is not an isolated problem, back we go to the store then. Talk about not fit for purpose.
     
  6. andy1249

    andy1249
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    The HDCP error is , without a doubt ,an Apple firmware fault , most likely they are not implementing the HDCP repeater bit properly , this bit controls the HDCP negotiation through multiple devices.

    ( Many users have gotten the device to work by unplugging everything else from the TV , and firing up the ATV3 first , this points directly to the device firmware and specifically to the implementation of the repeater bit as the fault.)

    There's no excuse for Apple on this one , full HDCP compliance testing has been mandatory for all devices since HDMI version 1.2 , Any incorrect HDCP error messages therefore is their fault and their fault alone.

    A Cable cannot cause this issue , and assuming all your other gear works without this error , then the ATV3 firmware is at fault. You'll have to wait for Apple to fix it via an update , don't hold your breath !

    Just another in the long list of things this product should and cannot do.

    Have one myself , a truly dreadful product , I'd have gotten rid of it ages ago but for the fact it was a present from the Missus , and she'd get upset.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2012
  7. GaryBritton

    GaryBritton
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    Thanks, I might quote you if I get any static returning it.
     
  8. bpsmith

    bpsmith
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    I have 3 ATV3's, had 2 ATV2's prior to that, and never had any issues connecting to a total of 6 different TV's either directly or through my Onkyo AVR.

    Not suggesting you don't have issues, but shows that it's not Apple's FW causing the problem. Have you tried updating to the latest FW just in case. Personally I would return to the Apple Store for them to test on the TV they usually have set up with ATV3 in store. This should at least prove if it's the ATV3 at fault.

    I assume it is an ATV3 that you bought recently?
     
  9. andy1249

    andy1249
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    No it does not ! Firmware implementation can have specific issues with specific pieces of equipment if all response possibilities for the handshake are not covered.

    It may be fine with your equipment but if poorly coded there will be some equipment combinations where it will not work. As said , HDCP compliance testing is mandatory , all correct response possibilities must be covered.

    Some manufacturers do the job properly and cover all correct response situations and if you don't do this there may be a problem.

    Apple obviously have not done the job properly and only covered the most common responses.

    HDCP issues are as rare as hens teeth where compliance testing has been carried out properly.
    This error should not be happening and it will be Apples firmware at fault , I have absolutely no doubt about this.

    This wont help at all and wont rule out specific source /sink problems which is what most people have. Nor should you accept such a test as pointing to your other equipment being at fault.

    Where all equipment is allegedly HDCP compliant , and if its later than HDMI version 1.2 it should be , then the device giving the error is the one with the firmware issue.

    The Net is awash with this issue , the ATV3 is clearly at fault here.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2012
  10. GaryBritton

    GaryBritton
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    It's all moot now, just returned the ATV. The appleista asked why I was returning it and when I said it didn't work as advertised he issued the refund there and then. Total transaction time 90 secs.

    Thanks for the help guys, I will be dropping Apple an email complaint.
     
  11. bpsmith

    bpsmith
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    Fair play, talk about a harsh reply over nothing!!! Nice one fella. Was just trying to say that it's more likely to be a faulty unit than all ATV's having the same FW fault.

    As you say, HDCP errors are rare as Hen's Teeth, yet the OP has the same issue with his AVR and 2 different TV's. That's 3 Hen's Teeth all in the same house. ;-)

    Would be interesting to see if a different ATV unit had the same issues, but the OP has had a refund instead so a moot point as the guy says.

    I am interested in which model TV the OP has?
     
  12. GaryBritton

    GaryBritton
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    I thought about a replacement but the Apple forums are awash with people with the same problem, maybe I'll bite again if they update the firmware. I emailed Tim Cook on the email address widely touted as his to express my disappointment which was my first complaint letter ever.

    My tv is a Pioneer KRP-500a, I didn't see any specific advise on t'internet that it wouldn't work with the ATV so it should have worked but hey ho.
     
  13. andy1249

    andy1249
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    One , the ATV3.
    Your Deduction skills need a little bit of honing there don't you think ?

    HDCP and any resulting error is implemented in Software not hardware , there is no hardware component that could fail and give you this error.
    I work in HDMI interface design and integration , its my job , this can only be the firmware .

    Here , Ive googled it for you ,

    Google

    A very common problem , all with the ATV3 at the heart of it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2012
  14. GaryBritton

    GaryBritton
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    Andy, as a software problem could this be resolved with a firmware/ iOS upgrade? The Apple TV ticks the iTunes through the AVR box as well as the nice Netflix interface box and it's a real pain to return it.

    Does Apple have a history of HDCP issues with HDMI across their range? Would the mac mini have the same issues?
     
  15. bpsmith

    bpsmith
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    That explains why you clearly know better than the rest of us.

    Hit the first link from that you kindly posted, as obviously your part time job is working with Search Engine Optimisation, and it points to HDMI issues based around using poor cables. ;-)
     
  16. bpsmith

    bpsmith
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  17. andy1249

    andy1249
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    Given the amount of current issues with the ATV3 and all the other equipment it has issues with ,plus the fact that your link is to a fix that Pioneer posted 6 years ago , thats highly unlikely.

    All the evidence here is pointing to the ATV3.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2012
  18. andy1249

    andy1249
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    All the links show people with HDCP issues , they have been trying many different things to fix it themselves , some of them go completely up the wrong path and make the wrong conclusions , but I guarantee you , HDCP issues cannot be caused by a cable , thats impossible.

    Given the evidence , attempting to defend Apple here is clear fanboyism , they need to fix their software , they probably will in a future update at some point , but its definitely their issue, no doubt about it.

    Believe it or not , some people do actually know more than yourself about HDMI , you say "us" , but Ive only corrected your incorrect conclusions on this thread , and thats for the benefit of the OP and others who may have the same problem.

    Theres no point spending money on new cables here , no point troubleshooting anything other than the ATV3 , as its most likely the bad management of the repeater bit in Apples software , there may be a connection configuration then you can put together with your gear that may work , but the root cause is Apples firmware , and it wont be fixed probably until they release a software update.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2012
  19. bpsmith

    bpsmith
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    You have posted in many threads rubbishing the ATV in many ways, so it's clear you dislike the product which shows through in where you point the blame.

    How can you possibly say its definitely the ATV when could quite possibly be the FW from the TV also. If its a handshake issue than that requires two bits of kit which are correctly coded. My link was posted as there's more hits for HDCP issues on the KRP-500a than there are for AppleTV issues with the same kit.

    That link shows people with the KRP-500a having HDCP issues in 2009 and later. That model was out prior to that so quite possible that the OP hasn't updated the FW.

    There are a number of links that show that the separate Media Receiver on this model TV has been known to be problematic with HDCP, sometimes from day 1 and other times it flared up later on. Pioneer had a hardware fix which resolved this too.

    No need to resort to name calling either fella. That's just lame. ;-)
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2012
  20. GaryBritton

    GaryBritton
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    I will check the TV firmware tonight just as a point of complete troubleshooting.

    My original troubleshooting pointed towards the ATV as the problem and having spent 4 hours on it I returned it to Apple maybe I could have requested an exchange but number of people with problems suggested I would be returning the 2nd device with the same error.

    I was really cheesed off after really wanting the device and maybe if Apple announce an updated firmware I will try again but at this point I will keep hold of the pennies.
     
  21. bpsmith

    bpsmith
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    Cool. I am more interested in finding a solution, should you ever want one again, rather than blaming you for just returning it.

    I wish I could just return things as would save stressing sometimes, but I usually have to find the solution or I won't rest. OCD for sure!

    4 hours of faffing about isn't fun, I agree.
     
  22. GaryBritton

    GaryBritton
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    Usually I will keep going until I've fixed something but at home I just want to have an easy life. Apple have pulled me in with the iPad and iPhone being so easy to use so I was really disappointed when it didn't just work.

    I've had a response from Apple, they have emailed me to schedule a call to discuss the problems I've experienced so I'll update tomorrow.

    Edit: The Tv is on firmware version 0905-0301.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2012
  23. bpsmith

    bpsmith
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    I see your point fella. The latest FW is 0908-0601 but the update notes don't suggest anything done to HDCP but then they don't always tell you everything that has changed mind you. This update dates back to 2008 btw.

    Will be interesting to see what they say mind you, and do post back with what they suggest. Hopefully you will then get this resolved and can enjoy the ATV and AirPlay from your other iThing's.
     
  24. GaryBritton

    GaryBritton
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    I spoke to the nice lady from Apple who has been chasing me for the last couple of days. She told me that the Apple engineers were keen to hear more about my problems as they hadn't experienced this problem before. She then went through a list of questions; serial number, tv make and model and reiterating the problems again. She took down the serial number of the unit and asked for my mobile number for the engineers to contact me directly tomorrow.

    We progress...
     
  25. bpsmith

    bpsmith
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    Interesting. Keep us posted on how t goes fella.

    Explain to them that you had to turn the ATV, but that you're open to testing if they want to send you one... ;-)
     
  26. GaryBritton

    GaryBritton
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    I did have to explain a couple of times that I had returned it but I'm holding out for an ATV plus a new iPhone 5 for AirPlay testing purposes :)
     
  27. bpsmith

    bpsmith
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    Good luck with that. ;-)

    Worth asking though.
     
  28. GaryBritton

    GaryBritton
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    Update, the engineers have tried and failed to locate my faulty ATV in the Covent Garden store and so are unable to diagnose the problem any further. The nice lady from Apple then told me that they had not heard of anyone else having the same problem so I'd I felt so inclined I could go and purchase another ATV safe in the knowledge that it would all work perfectly.

    Oh and if you are shopping for a refurbed ATV it could be mine, the reason they couldn't find mine was that it had already gone for refurb.
     
  29. bpsmith

    bpsmith
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    So...are you grabbing another one then?
     
  30. GaryBritton

    GaryBritton
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    I have to say I'm tempted to give it another whirl maybe when I have some time off next month. Part of me wants to go the whole mac mini/plex media route but that needs approval from SWMBO :)
     

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