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Apparently my LCD won't accept 720p/50...

Discussion in 'Televisions' started by barongreenback, Aug 23, 2005.

  1. barongreenback

    barongreenback
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    What does this mean for me getting Sky's new HD service? According to the list on the LCD forum it can accept 720p/60 and 1080 at both 50 and 60 (why???? grr).

    Can anyone offer me any hope?
     
  2. pjskel

    pjskel
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    Can I ask you use the LCD forum to discuss LCD matters - the HD forum is for the technology in broadcast or pre-recorded form, not the panels and their adherence to HD Readiness.
    Also, you might want to mention which brand and model of panel you have.
     
  3. barongreenback

    barongreenback
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    Apologies - although the sticky at the top of this forum would indicate that someone may be able to help, and my panel is listed in my sig.
     
  4. jimg

    jimg
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    Says who?
     
  5. richard plumb

    richard plumb
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    on the assumption that this thread can be moved, do you know if it'll take 1080i? That could be an option for you. I'm in the same boat with my 30pf9975. I'm going to get an Xbox360 and try 1080i via component before I decide whether I have to change the set (and so soon!)
     
  6. pjskel

    pjskel
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    Goes back to a thread here on whether there should be something done to keep the HD thread about the technology and not about the displays as they have their own forums for asking about their suitability, etc.
    I don't think you partook in the thread, so that's how you may have missed some of the points made in reference to keeping things in their rightful places - makes it easier for everyone to locate their posts.
    With so many sub forums, there's no real need for cross postings.

    See here.
     
  7. zerolight

    zerolight
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    the xbox360 should output at 720p in both 50 and 60hz, so you shouldn't have a problem.
     
  8. Quickbeam

    Quickbeam
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    Actually it's rumoured that all Xbox360 games will be 60Hz only, with a PAL60/RGB output in standard definition. This makes sense as making separate 50 and 60Hz versions is a headache for developers, leads to delays, and often results in technically inferior 50Hz versions.
     
  9. zerolight

    zerolight
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    All xbox 1 games can output PAL60 too.

    But there has to be an option to output in 50 hz as that still is a UK standard that they will always have to meet for legacy reasons.
     
  10. Stephen Neal

    Stephen Neal
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    This does, of course, mean that the XBox 360 may be incompatible with some TVs that don't support 60Hz scanning - they may be small in number these days, but they are still around.

    Presumably they'll have to offer PAL4.43/60 as well as NTSC3.58/60, RGB/60 and possibly NTSC4.43/60 as output standards to cope with the varying 60Hz compatibilities of various TVs... Sounds like a recipe for confusion.
     
  11. Kramer

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    Really? I hadn't realised you had made this decision :confused:.

    Yes, I recall that discussion.

    There's some crossover between LCD, plasma, projectors etc. & HD. Understandably, members might be uncertain where to post. This isn't a problem. If a post or thread is more suitable elsewhere, it will be moved.

    As HD becomes more readily available, we'll look again at the individual forum titles & add/remove sub forums as necessary.

    I understand your point of view but a friendly "you might get better answers by posting in the LCD TV forum" or "you might ask a mod to move this thread to....." etc. would have gone down better ;) .

    :smoke:
     
  12. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    I also recall the discussion but it was just that, a discussion. I think it relevant to the discussion here. Unfortunately this is all to common. Converting 50 to 60hz is one solution many have used in the past (Lumagen good here) and you will find many older Panny plasma owners have had to live with the no 50hz for many years now. Gordon is a good man to speak to here.
     
  13. barongreenback

    barongreenback
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    Thanks Nic and Kramer for the considerably more helpful responses ;) That's exactly what I was looking for - I appreciate that my panel will not be totally compatible with Sky's new HD service so I'm looking for a workaround. Gordon if you're reading, any info on Lumagen would be fantastic (providing it costs less than a new panel!!!)
     
  14. zerolight

    zerolight
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    http://features.teamxbox.com/xbox/1245/Xbox-360-FAQs/p2/
     
  15. pjskel

    pjskel
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    Well, forgive me for trying to persuade newcomers to think a little before posting willy nilly.
    I made no decision other than to use common sense - LCD topics belong in the LCD forum, or am I wrong in that sort of thinking?
    It took you long enough to find this thread and reply - is moderating that tough a job?
    As this thread is still in the same place as it has been, then it looks like I'm the only one that considers this thread to be in the wrong location, or the only one to have voiced it as such.
    It would seem YOU appear to have assumed I'm after your "job" - again I thought part of a forum's community spirit was that we all helped keep things in the straight and narrow.
    Enough said - I'll say nothing further in other misplaced threads, and leave the moderators to chastise/cajole/etc the member's who've made a minor faux pas.
     
  16. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    The original poster has obviously been to the LCD forum to get info already and has done some leg work. He requested info on HD and what it means re the HD standards and how they interact with his display device or not in this case and wants a push in the correct direction to solve his HD issue. The solution probably lies with the scaler community but is certainly relevant here, re Sky and whether they do 720@50/60 or 1080i@50/60. This is not uncommon and many trying to make HD work are likely to need this information in the future.

    Do I not post questions about DTheatre here because it is a tape recorder?

    Discussions on what should be in this forum should be kept on that separate thread rather than welcoming people to the forum with sod off and ask elsewhere. This is one of the better forums here, with active participation and some really knowledgeable people contributing. Lets keep it that way rather than doing what the CRT forum currently does.
     
  17. pjskel

    pjskel
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    I most certainly did not tell the OP to "sod off", but.....well, scroll to the top and read what I actually said. If you are going to parapghrase me, have the courtesy of doing it correctly, or not at all!
    As can be seen from what I said above, I asked politely and did nothing to make him feel unwanted or any other negative feeling.

    I've no idea what you do with your DVHS posts - no interest, so never visit that forum - same for CRT, so no idea what they are or aren't up to.

    Lastly, I didn't check all his past posts to see where they were or of what nature - no need to, since I was of the impression that the same question could be asked and answered in the LCD forum. Still maintain that is the case.
    It most certainly has bugger all to do with the Scalars forum, as it's a panel design issue. And more so, probably a misprint or poor collation of the data in the sticky he mentions having looked at. Did you read his post, or just jump on the bandwagon of having a go at me? Would seem not seeing as you think it's suitable for the Scalar forum. If it were scalar related, then I'd have asked him to consider putting the question there, not the LCD forum.

    As an answer to the question - the panel takes a 50p signal at 720 no problem, so there's nothing to worry over now about pseudo-HD progressive playback of PAL DVDs via an upscaling player, like the Samsung 850/950.

    There! Can we drop this charade and act like grown ups and leave the back-sniping to the adolescents on other forums around the planet?
     
  18. zerolight

    zerolight
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    But this forum is called the HD TV Forum. And he asked a question about HD TV. Seems pretty reasonable to me.
     
  19. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    DTheatre is a high definition formation, it is a variant of DVHS. It records and plays back high definition broadcasts and high definition pre recorded media, as well as having the capability to decode high definition material material from PCs. It includes high definition tuners and can control high definition sat receivers but most of use just use it for playing high definition tapes (Dtheatre or off air HD) or decoding HD from PCs here in the uk.
     
  20. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    Sodd off was pure my impression, appologies if it caused offense. I have never jumped on the bandwagons, I seem to remember I was was one of the first to comment on the suggested limits for forum posts in the other thread.

    Bugger all to do with scaler, REALLY? nuff said. I think this says it all.
     
  21. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    A quick look to the thread on what should be allowed in this forum, or more accurately renaming the forum. I was the FIRST person to respond to the suggestion, doesn't that make you the person jumping on the bandwagon? ;)
     
  22. barongreenback

    barongreenback
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    Pjkskel - not sure where you got your info from but the manual also seems to state (by omission) that the panel does not accept a 50hz signal at 720p.

    BTW, without wishing to further prolong the argument on this thread, I did take your original post as 'sod off'. You might wish to word your replies in a different fashion in future if that was not your intention. This forum seemed the most logical for me rather than cross posting over 3 or 4 forums.
     
  23. pjskel

    pjskel
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    Erm....no - I posted a reply to the question posed in that thread, IIRC. My reference to jumping on band wagons was purely about having a go at what I asked the OP to do.
    The question as it stands, if you actually bother to read it, in no way relates to the Scalar forum, since it not a scaling issue, but one of purely what his panel will accept, seeing as the sticky in the LCD forum has caused him concern due to the lack of mention of 720p@50. I am repeating my self here - my previous reply quite clearly explains that point, which I've also addressed. So, that's where my "bugger all" comment comes from - that and frustration of having to explain myself over such an innocuous reply.

    I say this one last time (and you can write whatever the hell you want below - I'm now totally fed up with this and the thread has been ruined as a result - well done to you all involved!) - THE ORIGINAL QUESTION POSED WAS NOT ANY OTHER ISSUE OTHER THAN ONE RELATING TO THAT OF AN LCD PANEL.
    It was NOT scalar related, and it is NOT Hi-Def related - it IS about what input signal the LCD's electronics will handle. AFAIC, that falls under the domain of the LCD forum.
    I can't make it any clearer or simpler - if you fail to understand that, then I give up trying to explain it to you, as well as justifying my original request.

    Carry on talking amongst yourselves, I'm done here and am moving on to something a damn sight more positive. If Kramer bothers to show up, he'd have the good sense to lock this thread given the question has been asked and answered, and the remaining posts are way off topic - yes, including mine.
    To those watching from the sidelines - sorry you've had to watch this thread degenerate.
     
  24. pjskel

    pjskel
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    Well, I apologise if you did take it that way, but I fail to see how my wording any differently would've made any difference. At the end of the day, I felt the question belonged to the LCD forum.

    As for info - common sense. Since Samsung produce an upscaling DVD player or two - HD850 & HD950, both of which output 720p@50, then it would be a tad daft for them to not have their own panel's electronics accept and act upon that signal. Website says it's 15:9 panel with 1280x768 resolution. No mention there of anything - typical of Samsung actually. Same for their DVD players which upscale.
     
  25. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    If you attended the last 'The Event 2' you will have found myself and many noted members of the industry had set up in the plasma room a 'scaler' or more accurately a video processor (as talked about in the scaler forum, colloquial name) to take inputs like 720p@50Hz and feed them into a Plasma at 720p@60Hz. It allows those user who who have older panel devices which do not accept 720p@50Hz to view 720p@50Hz but converting it to 720p@60Hz (can't remember the exact resolution but it was to demonstrate the 50 to 60 conversion). This is what the OP needed to know. We had a significant number of people through looking at this demo. The deinterlacing / HD / HDMI talk was given by John Dawson of Arcam, I ran the video processors. I'm surprised you think it not relevant.

    The link below is a two page news article in the AV press about the event

    http://www.pjhifi.co.uk/pj/files/svm_event2.zip

    It is one of the most basic uses for a video processor and one of the most common question relating to HD transmission I have to answer each week by those who don't know / are interested in Sky HD and how they can use it.

    Re the upscaling Samsung DVD players. They can output 720p (1280x 720)@50 or 60, 1080i (1920 x 1080i)@50 or 60 and a non HDMI standard of 1024 x768@50 or 60. Samsung LCDs (26, 32 and 40 inches) have a resolution of 1366 x 768. They ALL need scaling when fed from the 950. Their 42 inch plasma (sold in lower numbers) does have a resolution of 1024 x 768 which fits the non standard 950 resolution but itself is also non standard.

    All SKY HD inputs will need rescaling to any of these Samsung display devices, as will ANY HDMI compatible device. ANY. The output of the 950 stinks by the way, best avoided. Not one of my better purchases. Tad daft of Samsung?, yes no arguement from me.
     
  26. barongreenback

    barongreenback
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    Nic, thanks for the link (and thanks for understanding the point of my original question!). I'll have a look into a scaler to see whether it can do the job.
     
  27. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    We used Lumagen video processors for the national demo, they work well at this, hence the comment speak to Gordon

    http://www.convergent-av.co.uk

    for the Lumagen support forum
     
  28. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Just found this thread......I think it best I limit my comments slightly...

    Your display accepts 1080i at50? If that is the case it may be that the forthcoming Skyboxes can be set to always output 1080i. Of course this will result in a poorer presentation of native 720P content but it should remove any possible motion judder.

    If this is not possible then the use of an exteranl video processor to do frame rate conversion of your 50/720P to 60 would probably be useful. I think it's going to be one of those things we're going to have to look at once the boxes become available. At present I have no knowledge of what set up parameters there are going to be on these HD sources.

    If you pick wisely you may also find that an external video processor may actually make your 1080i material superior as well as some are capable of detecting if the source was originally progresive in nature and can therefor create theh original 1080p frames, which they can then downscale and output progressively. This will likely produce superior quality to jsut letting the display try to scale a 1080i signal....but at present this capability is qute expensive. Lumagen hope to have this film detection in their HDP unit quite soon.....for basic FRC you'd probably be fne with the basic DVI...but I'd try to go for the superior HDP if you can.

    All the best,

    G
     
  29. barongreenback

    barongreenback
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    Thanks Gordon. The scaler is something I'll definitely be looking into, particularly given the fact that the Samsung has 768 horizontal lines.
     

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